Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Megleno-Romanian

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main page Request for a new language edition: Wikipedia Megleno-Romanian
submitted verification final decision
Applications-system.svg This language has been verified as eligible.
The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page.

Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval, will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert and notify the Board of Trustees for a possible veto.

If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval.

  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code ruq (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Megleno-Romanian Language name in English
Language name Влахесте, Vlăheşte Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q13358 - item has currently the following values:
  • English label = Megleno-Romanian language
  • native label (P1705) =
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = language / Eastern Romance languages
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) = ruq
  • writing system (P282) = Latin script, Cyrillic script, Greek alphabet
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 5,000±0
Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community
You can optionally list your user name if you're a contributor to the wiki. Add "N" next to your name if you are a native speaker of this language.
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name Wikipedia "Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace "Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Files should be uploaded to Commons, but if you want, you can enable local file uploading.
Notes: (1) files on Commons can be used on all wikis; (2) this setting can be changed afterwards; (3) uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info); (4) localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons
Optional settings
Project logo 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit maniphest task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)

Megleno-Romanian is a Eastern Romance language. It is spoken by approximately 7 750 people of which 2 500 in Macedonia, 3 000 in Greece, 1 500 in Romania, 500 in Turkey and a few hundred people in other countries. The language is currently reviving and doesn't decline in speakers anymore. --Макѕе 19:14, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Arguments in favour[edit]

  • Мај Англес ест пирок. Влашни дајсувест нВикипедиа, коми Аруманја ет Романес о усоент лурес Википедиа. Влашни ест дајвелопи на, сукцес гарандест-це Википедиа, гражу. Кумулај Маркус, директору дес реганизацион дес Влашапу, Влашни ен Мацедониа.
    Крва си, стумаер. Ес интреси модификаере пажес де Википедиа? Макѕе 16:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
    У сом! Коми темпаер т-еди. Коми или љуелљуес бесу, ме дир. Кумулај Маркус.
    What did he say? --OosWesThoesBes 16:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Another Wikipedia in Cyrillic script is a good idea. A.M.D.F. 20:43, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
  • I can't find many sites in Megleno Romanian... Maybe this will be a good idea. The test may get a little bit more active and the localisation still needs completion, but I guess it will be done. --OosWesThoesBes 16:00, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
  • Native speakers of Megleno-Romanian are willing to contribute to this project in the long-term, hence this project has the potential to flourish like the other Eastern Romance language Wikipedia editions such as Aromanian etc. Therefore the Megleno-Romanian language ought to be given the opportunity and priviledge to have its own language edition of Wikipedia. --Jose77 08:30, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I like this idea too. BalkanFever 09:39, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
  • Magic Mix native speaker, willing, ISO code, GREEN LIGHT and GOOD LUCK!Qrc2006 18:58, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
  • Strong Support - support Montenegran CRNOGORSKI PATRIOTA

Arguments against[edit]

  • Strong against I sincerily doubt that the text at the Incubator is in Megleno-Romanian. It seems to be something of a broken/mock French written with Cyrillic (note the use of "Les vlași" with the French article "les", although Meglenitic uses enclitic article like in Romanian, that is "vlașii"). In the discussion page of this page lays the transliteration of one of the texts written in "so-called" Megleno-Romanian: For a Romanian or Aromanian speaker it is very clear that the text cannot be in Megleno-Romanian). Also Megleno-Romanian was never written in Cyrillic, and there is no such literature written with Cyrillic. Please note that if there is to exist a Meglenitic Wikipedia, it cannot be written in an invented language. There is a dictionary of the Megleno-Romanian language, also there is some literature in this language, and this donnot resemble at all the mock texts at the Incubator.--Danutz 11:42, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
  • Against! Megleno-romanian is not yet standartized and therefore IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY oficial scripts (even if it has written dictionaries or some other kind of literature, as mentioned above). Maybe it's written by some people using their country's national alphabet (Serbia-cyrillic, Macedonia-cyrillic, Greece-greek, Turkey-latin). The romanian ortography (or the macedonian/serbian/greek and turkish) cannot resemble in their current forms the spoken language. Wikipedia is for writing encyclopedic articles, not for developing grammar and standardizing near-extinct language. NO! Octavius 909 (talk) 12:59, 13 October 2012 (UTC)
  • Against an eventual Wikipedia in Megleno-Romanian cannot grow because there are almost no resources in this language and the whole project cannot rely only on translations from other languages! Wikipedia would lose precious disk space and bandwidth for a hypotetical, unspoken and near-extinct language Octavius 909 (talk) 13:09, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Other discussion[edit]

  • The number of speakers/writers is low. What we will be looking for is a sufficient group of people who actively collaborate in this project. GerardM 20:57, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
    Saterlandic is spoken by less people and is approved/has an active wiki. I'm sure Makse will create and often edit his test project. Later on, others can jump in and create and expand more articles. SF-Language 06:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

-There´s still people who speaks in megleno romanian and are capable to write the wikipedia in their own language!

  • What script will be used ? GerardM 20:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
    It looks like Cyrillic, but it could be possible to do something like the serbian wiki I think. SF-Language 06:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
    The advantage of different scripts is there could be 3 different scripts on one wiki without one single problem. If there's someone from Romania willing to contribute, he can contribute in latin script without having to ask one question. --Макѕе 15:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
    I've never seen Megleno-Romanian written in Cyrilic...
    That's because most written literature and so on comes from Romania, where they write in latin script. In Macedonia people write in Cyrillic, in Greece they write Greek writing and in Turkey (yes there are Megleno-Romanians too) they write in Latin. --Макѕе 18:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Естиле линтерфацул интранслаере? Кумулај Маркус.

Јоп, ала-ви фари. --Макѕе 18:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

3 scripts is a great idea. BalkanFever 10:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Note that User:D'AroemenenZullenNiVergaan has nominated deletion of incubator:Wp/ruq, and now it's deleted. so reject this request, or restart that test wiki? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:07, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
I find the whole story quite odd. The academia calls Aromanian, Megleno-Romanian and Istro-Romanian Romanian dialects (hence the name). While with regard to Aromanian, due to the revival initiatives that have taken place at the end of the last century, it is now quite common for it to be regarded as a language. Within the Megleno-Romanian, Istro-Romanian, though, there have been made no such moves and no one in the academia ever called them anything but languages. Ethnologue decided to call them languages, for some random reason.
And then you have some users ask for a Megleno-Romanian Wikipedia and just make up some text that they claim to be in that peculiar language.
Calling a dialect with no tradition of it being written (other than as part of dialectology treaties) a language and giving it a separate Wikipedia language version might be an irresponsible thing to do. It involves the contributors way too much in the original research spirit that I guess we do not seek at Wikipedia.
Now, by Wikimedia's language policy, the language version itself should be eligible. Under these conditions, I would find a Wiktionary (paste definitions from PD glossaries) or a Wikisource (paste the PD dialectology texts in there) project more useful, though, given the small number of speakers. That's why I began to work at localizing the most frequent strings @ translatewiki.net.
Now, the three scripts story is, I believe, a bit far fetched. While, in theory, speakers from the different countries may opt for one script or another, reality is that the very few ever writing in dialect (and that's Facebook posts, mostly, and private snail mailing) have opted for a Latin alphabet influenced either by standard Romanian, Serbo-Croatian or Greek phonetic conventions, depending on the country the come from and the extent of their education.
Megleno-Romanian as written in Turkey is based on the Latin script and is influenced by both the Turkish and the Pomak Latin alphabets. But, again, it's Latin.
So, to wrap up: Liuxinyu970226, as long as the language policy will not change, or Ethnologue does not change the status of the idiom, I propose that we keep the request as valid. It would be nice to get rid of the multiple script support, though.--D'AroemenenZullenNiVergaan (talk) 02:09, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

Transliteration[edit]

It could be possible. Only, there is a problem. Or may be not. Greek orthography is not none to me. And the Latin 'ǎ' is written as two symbols in Cyrillic 'ај'. The other letters are making it possible. But, there are small dialectual difference, but these are very small. Приетен тев 08:11, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't know how much this will help, but I have a table for the closely related language of Aromanian here, which compares Romanian and Greek orthography. BalkanFever 10:20, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
It's a good idea. I'll make such a table too. Приетен тев 10:38, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

If this guy Кумулај Маркус is able to contribute to the project somebody should tell him to add his name to the top :-) BalkanFever 11:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Localisation update[edit]

  • Currently 50.94% of the most used MediaWiki messages have been localised. Localisation of these messages is a requirement before your request is finally assessed. This is the recent localisation activity for your language. Thanks, GerardM 12:19, 12 November 2008 (UTC)