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In my experience watching dozens of new editors over their shoulder at various events, the main problem with the traditional editor is that the save button isn't even visible without scrolling. We have many such pages where the main action button or textarea or other isn't visible or reachable unless you already know where to look. Nemo 05:58, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

That's why the new editor has its save/publish button on top, like VE has. Trizek (WMF) (talk) 07:38, 2 August 2016 (UTC)

Milestone, and how to add translations[edit]

From Whatamidoing (WMF) to translators-l: "I wanted to share a big milestone:

There ought to be some way to throw confetti in e-mail for achievements like this. Congratulations. You all are awesome.  :-)

If this message is still not translated in a language that you know, then here are two links that might be useful:

Just change the "af" bit to the language code for your language and edit the resulting page." --Elitre (WMF) (talk) 11:34, 23 August 2016 (UTC)

Most recent research[edit]

Several people have asked for an example of the research behind this, so I thought I'd post a link to the most recent one here: File:Editing - New Wikitext Editor, Save Publish Findings 2016.12.pdf

This is the same end result that they got in the previous studies (most of which were unfortunately not published beyond offhand comments in the mailing lists or strategy discussions) and very typical for individual user research (for example, using the industry-standard sample size). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 21:46, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

Not a good idea[edit]

Sorry, but for Wikis as de:WP with Reviewing pending changes installed, this will not work. Those new editors will feel we make fun of them. The thing, their edits will be published - but then waiting for a review. Maybe the WMF should not work on such unnecessary uniformity, but on really usefull things. Marcus Cyron (talk) 12:48, 17 March 2017 (UTC)

Hi Marcus Cyron,
Thanks for this note. I know that you are an admin at Commons (which means that you know a lot about copyright law), so you might be the best possible person to help me with this. I've been thinking about Flagged Revisions. As you understand, of course, the new version of the article is available to the public (via the edit history or &oldid= links), so it is "published". If someone makes an edit today, and that edit doesn't get reviewed until 2025, then the date of publication is 2017, not 2025. However, if a logged-out user goes to "[[Beispiel]]", then that user won't automatically see the newest version. So it might confuse editors who don't know how Flagged Revisions works. I've had three ideas so far, and I'd like to get your advice on them:
  1. Is there a clearer translation that should be used at the German Wikipedia?
    • The translation needs to make sense for both new editors and experienced editors, on all pages (including those without Flagged Revisions). Unfortunately, the software does not permit us to use different labels for different pages or different types of editors.
    • The main meaning is "You are publishing this" (in the legal sense), rather than "This will instantly be shown to everyone reading this page".
  2. We could update the Flagged Revisions notice to be bigger or clearer.
  3. We could (perhaps) get permission to expand w:de:MediaWiki:Wikimedia-copyrightwarning to say that changes may not be immediately visible to all users.
What do you think? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 18:50, 17 March 2017 (UTC)
I am a German speaker and I can't think of a short wording that conveys the meaning "publish changes in the legal sense, but don't expect to see them appear in the wiki until they have been sighted by another user". I agree with Marcus Cyron, in wikis that use flagged revisions, labeling the button "publish" instead of "save" will do more bad than good and will especially confuse new editors. So if the software is not able to display two different texts depending on whether the user has "Sichterrecht" or not, then I think the best solution is: for those wikis that use flagged revisions, we simply keep the existing name (e.g. on German Wikipedia, "Änderungen speichern"). --Neitram (talk) 14:13, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
P.S. Or perhaps "Änderungen speichern/veröffentlichen", although this is awkwardly long. --Neitram (talk) 14:24, 21 March 2017 (UTC)
That is awkwardly long, and it would get worse when they change the button (it will become BIG and bright blue, probably in about a month). What do you think about adding extra explanation elsewhere in the interface? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:10, 22 March 2017 (UTC)
Maybe „absenden“? --DaB. (talk) 15:13, 23 March 2017 (UTC)