User talk:Billinghurst

	User language en-N This user has a native understanding of English. fr-1 Cet utilisateur dispose de connaissances de base en français. Users by language

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To do task

Align the codes on the admin/crat/cu/... and sisters user templates to have a base, and a build

• {{User wikipedia/Administrator}}
• {{User wikipedia/Bureaucrat}}
• {{User wikipedia/Oversighter}}

+++

user meta tool to identify User:CommonsDelinker pages and remove

Time to get rid of the legacy garbage user pages, and allow meta user page to shine through.

Learning Quarterly: November 2018

L&E Newsletter / Volume 5 / Issue 17 / November 2018
Learning Quarterly

Frontpage:
#CEInsights18
#GenderEquity

Stay tuned
blogs, events
& more!

A program in the spotlight:
Editatona: Writing women back in history

Leave your mark on Meta!
AffCom corner and Wikimania Poster session

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 17:08, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

RFL/Wikisource Literary Chinese

Thank you for your comment. I was going to stop the current discussion today or tomorrow anyway, and try to refocus it. It's not such a simple question. At a fundamental level, the language question is something like this:

• Stating this request using a European language analogy, putting Modern French in the role of Modern Chinese: The opponents of this project say that Literary Chinese is akin to Old French, so at first preference, any documents in Old French would be put into French Wikisource. The proponents of this project say that Literary Chinese is akin to Latin, which has many descendants and is not the direct ancestor of any language. So there should be a separate Latin Wikisource, and documents should go there. Purely on a language basis, the proponents' argument is probably valid—though one potentially can argue it the other way, too.

I like "dog's breakfast", an expression I did not previously know. The main cause of that mess is that the principal proponent (a) doesn't have good English skills, and (b) seems singularly unable/unwilling to hear that there are facts on the ground, already—namely that there is a lot of lzh content already in place at zhwikisource.

Leaving aside the question of eligibility of lzh for any other type of project, I could see that a potential lzh community that would need to include Koreans, Japanese, Vietnamese, etc. along with Chinese might like some independent editorial control over such a project. But this is Wikisource, which means that the basic texts ought to be pretty fixed, and it shouldn't really matter what wiki the document lives in.

• To me, the only question of a complication is whether zhwikisource is being compelled somehow—I'll leave the "somehow" to your imagination, though you'll understand immediately what I mean—to exclude certain documents (or to censor/edit certain documents). Then having a project independent of zhwikisource would be useful.

So, as I said, I was probably going to close the current discussion today or tomorrow, and try to refocus on whether or not there is a need for a more narrowly focused lzhwikisource independent of zhwikisource. Question for you is simple: When I do that, do you mind if I reproduce your comment at the top of the "Second Discussion" section I will create? StevenJ81 (talk) 15:34, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

@StevenJ81: Thanks for the contact.

Coming from an English Wikisource background, my initial thoughts were that we determined there that Old English and Middle English works belonged at English Wikisource, not at a new wiki, due to lack of editors and dispersal of works, and the actual numbers. We discussed that Old English is suitably different from modern English, especially with the varied influences of Latin, French, German and Norse "invaders" through time, though it should not matter, there were means within the wiki to manage those differences.

I think that your separation of the two aspects is a reasonable approach to look at what would be a viable corpus of works, and presenting option A (within zhWS) or option B (ancient language across broad geographic area and cultures) as focus of discussion. Then if lzh is seen as suitably different, then does it progress to its own separate wiki, or is it part of mulWS. Small communities start up in the incubator and progress outwards when they have a community that needs to separate. If it is part of mulWS, then is that a win, or can zhWS otherwise cater for lzh components within its wiki.

So the questions that I was going to ask there were:

1. Are there sufficient current native speakers of literary Chinese to justify a separate wiki, rather than are there sufficient existing works to justify a separate wiki. I am not certain that the existing proposal suitably understood/addressed that aspect. I would also reflect the roaring success (not!) of laWS. [There is a lot of work to maintain a community and in my experience stretching too thin means death].
2. If there are existing "lzh" works within the existing zhWS how is the current system and structure failing those works and that language, what accommodations could be made within the community to highlight these works and attend to their transclusion.
3. How would separating zh and lzh works lead to a better corpus, better tools, and a better community
4. If the community is created how the migration of works would occur, as to this point of time we have not have the same edition of a works in multiple places. So part of this conversation needs to consider what would be the criteria for where the work belongs, and the criteria around which versions belong where. If that cannot be determined, or there is no absolute clarity, then what difference are we actually fighting.

This has to be more than a discussion about the works of a time and a period. This is primarily about a language community producing works of a language, and is lzhWS viable.

Noting that that is no closed Chinese-language Wikisources, the two languages closed were angWS and htWS.  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:20, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks very much for getting back to me. The fact that you have WS experience is helpful; mostly, I do not.

Just to make a semantic note on one issue, no one is really a "native speaker" of Literary Chinese in 2018. But I think you and I can agree that we both mean people who can read, write and understand it fairly fluently.

The more you lay this out, the more I am seeing some clarity in this mess. First a comment, then some background, then some trial points I would run by you.

• Comment. I suspect that for the most part the lack of success of Latin Wikisource—which surprised me a little—is for the reasons you say. I see enough of that in the various test projects I shepherd on Incubator. But I suppose one other significant issue here may be that most important works in Latin are long in the public domain, and may well be accessible elsewhere. It's not as if Latin Wikisource is doing much in the way of scooping up works as they come off copyright. If that's the case, though, some of the success of an lzhWS may depend on whether such documents are broadly available elsewhere. I don't know that they are as available as Latin works probably are, but all the same it seems many are ... including many on zhWS.
• Background. The OP, User:Bobo alcazar, started creating lzh content on oldwikisource. When I asked him why his content would not be more properly located at zhWS, he gave me the whole story about how lzh is more like Latin, a different language, etc. On its face, that claim is probably fairly correct. So I told the user to create an RFL on Meta, and the result is what you see. My initial thought was that OP's argument was a reasonable one. And in a way it is. But I've also come to learn that there is a lot of lzh content on zhWS already. And I don't see a good reason to start allowing a whole lot of duplication here. So I think my job, at this point, is to determine if there is actually an unserved community, and then to see if there is a need for a separate lzhWS (certainly for now on oldwikisource) to serve it.

If there were no zhWS, there would be enough of a writing community to justify an lzhWS. I don't think I want to address that question of yours directly, because people will contribute where they wish to contribute. Rather, I think I would try to focus "Second Discussion" as follows. ("You" here is addressed to participants there, not actually you.)

• Trial Point (to question 2): Leave aside for a minute the question of whether you feel that lzh is different enough from Modern Chinese to justify a separate project per policy. There is a lot of lzh content in zhWS. Are there problems with it? If so, what are the problems? Can the zhWS community find ways to address those problems? How would a brand-new lzhWS project be able to address those problems better than an established zhWS could?
• Trial Point (to questions 3 and 4, and maybe there is a more delicate way to put this): More specifically, are there works that are systematically being excluded from zhWS or modified from the original in zhWS? This could be for political reasons, nationalistic reasons, historical reasons, copyright reasons, or any other reasons. Is there no chance of those issues being resolved within the zhWS community?

  In particular, can Korean, Vietnamese, Taiwanese, Japanese, etc. writers contribute equally, or are their contributions less welcome? (Please give examples either way.)

If we weren't talking about China, I'd probably have an easy time saying no to this. But I'm just suspicious enough of the possibility of censorship that I'm not sure whether to close off this possible safety valve. So subject to being convinced otherwise by the discussion, I would lean toward a solution along these lines:

• Always try to contribute at zhWS first.
• If you cannot, contribute to lzhWS (at oldwikisource).
• Duplication of sources not allowed unless there are serious editorial differences.

Objectively, that's probably the right way to go. Strictly enforcing would be a headache, of course. In reality, though, even without strict enforcement, it would probably successfully kick the can down the road a bit, until one of the following happens:

• Interest in lzh on mul.WS fades away.
• lzh on mul.WS approaches approvability, in which case
  • When that happens, all or much is folded into zhWS at the time, or
  • Some is folded into zhWS at that time, and the rest stays in mul.WS, or
  • There is little to fold into zhWS, and lzhWS can be approved.

Well, that was lengthy. But I would appreciate your thoughts. StevenJ81 (talk) 23:25, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

Comment We already know that lzh content is accepted and acceptable at zhWP (presuming that it is in the "L"zh language rather than a modern form of what was an lzh work), so it is a situation that there needs to be a stroooong case to move the works to a separated community.

• Are lzh-type works at koWP, viWP already, and would need to be moved to a new community or are they customised for the language communities?
• The conversation around censorship cannot be pertinent to how we design a language wiki.

I don't have the current capacity to more fully propagate a fuller argument, and the more I type, the more that I just haven't seen a practical argument to why this would happen successfully, and we are not even at the community-level resources and overhead to do this. As you know managing and building a community is significant, if there is not a ground swell within zhWS that something is wrong, and that the works are not welcomed, then this is a dead argument.  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:42, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I quite agree. (I might have added even one more "o".) I don't think the chances are very good that we/I will end up approving this, even for narrow purposes, and none at all for broad purposes. But on the off chance that some of China's ... shall we say, content restriction policies ... are bleeding over into Wikisource, I wanted to go out of my way to give proponents a chance to make a case. StevenJ81 (talk) 23:06, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I have no issues with having a lucid proposal for discussion; and while I could have, I didn't dismiss the original out of hand, and instead commented how I did. Any it is not the separation that concerns me, it is having a community to guarantee success.  — billinghurst sDrewth 23:42, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #341

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

• Discussions
  • New request for comments: How to handle heat treating as a qualifier for material properties ?
  • New development input: Identify problems with adding new languages into Wikidata

• Events
  • Upcoming: "Researcher meets Curator", with a subquestion: "What are the consequences of collecting born digital sources, working with digital network analysis and engaging with linked open data initiatives such as Wikidata", in Maastricht on 22 March 2019. Call for papers
  • Upcoming: Advanced Wikidata Training in India, December 15-16
  • Past: "Wikibase: configure, customize, and collaborate" workshop at SWIB 18 in Bonn, Germany on November 26, 2018. Workshop materials
  • Past: EveryPolitician event to identify political data sources for Wikidata in Madrid, Spain, on December 1, 2018.

• Other Noteworthy Stuff
  • Author Disambiguator (github source), new tool by d:User:ArthurPSmith (based on SourceMD) for linking author items to their works.
  • OpenRefine 3.1 was released
  • New API module to format multiple entity IDs
  • You can now access the number of Forms and Senses of Lexemes through API and special page

• Did you know?
  • Newest properties:
    • General datatypes: reference has role, tautomer of, eponymous category, language style, ratified by, funding scheme
    • External identifiers: GameFAQs company ID, AJOL journal ID, LEGO set ID, BDFA player ID, Sabinet journal ID, NSW State Archives and Records Authority Agency ID, Bygdeband location ID, Austrian Biographical Encylopedia ID, Badtaste ID, Badgames ID, Mexican female soccer players ID, member of the Portuguese parliament ID, BBC News topic ID, OBV editions ID, Geolex ID, CNPJ, Defined Term ID, Guida al Fumetto Italiano ID
  • New property proposals to review:
    • General datatypes: gained independence from, nachgewiesen mittels, measured by (KPI), OpenTrials ID, administrated by the administrative territorial entity, level of description, stored as lexeme, taxon author citation, Astronomical coordinates, catchphrase, real estate developer, Danske Taler speaker
    • External identifiers: TrENSmissions person ID, LIGA profile, SEINet ID, BIBSYS work ID, Jewish Museum Berlin person ID, UK Parliament Identifier, HAER ID, Vesti.kz person ID, Genius album ID, Genius song ID, TASS reference, DIR3 ID, NooSFere story ID, L'Encyclopédie philosophique ID, RegiowikiAT ID, Discord Store game SKU, kohanimeregister, ARLLFB member ID, ARB person ID, Biographie nationale de Belgique ID, protected area authority ID, Flora of Wisconsin ID, identifiant Monument aux morts
  • Query examples:
    • Timeline of early Western movies (source)
    • Species represented in the exhibition "Espèces en voies d'illumination" in the natural history museum of Paris (source)
    • Properties most used to describe cats in Wikidata (source)
    • List of UK embassies (source)
    • Map of places of residence for accused witches in Scotland with a layer for occupations (source)

• Development
  • Add Lexeme to Wikibase's ontology.owl (phab:T195368)
  • Prepare to drop change_tag.ct_tag column (phab:T194163)
  • Create Federated Wikibase instance on Beta Commons (phab:T204748)
  • More work on preparing a new termbox for the mobile version of Wikidata

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

• Monthly Tasks
  • Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
  • Comment on property proposals: all open proposals
  • Suggested and open tasks!
  • Contribute to a Showcase item.
  • Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
  • Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
  • Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 13:35, 4 December 2018 (UTC)

Query

Hi, can you take a look at these modules. I don't think they are of scope here. Thanks much. Didn't use wikilinks is to tell you they are from the same user.--Cohaf (talk) 06:42, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Numbers of out of scope components from the user. Managed and noted with user.  — billinghurst sDrewth 06:58, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

Welcomed. Thanks for assistance. It's a user from my homewiki and I will also be following up with them. --Cohaf (talk) 07:00, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

(-: and probably in a better manner. Thanks.  — billinghurst sDrewth 07:01, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

I will try my best.--Cohaf (talk) 07:04, 5 December 2018 (UTC)

dvwiki

I'm having a hard time responding there because of the L - R difference but regarding this, it's a known global problem. I don't have access to the global private filters but it's been long known on enwiki. Also if you wouldn't mind, please switch that to private. Thanks! Praxidicae (talk) 13:50, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Also forgot to @Billinghurst: ping you. ;) Praxidicae (talk) 13:53, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

@Praxidicae: no need to ping me here, it is watched. Re LTR I usually type it in notepad++ then paste. <shrug> Re the filter, talk to There'sNoTime , they reactivated it. Re abuse filters, apply for Abuse filter helpers right, presumably at SRP.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:02, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #342

Here's your quick overview of what has been happening around Wikidata over the last week.

• Discussions
  • New request for comments: Scholarly articles that are book reviews

• Events
  • Past: SWAT4HCLS in Antwerp Belgium December 3:
    • Wikibase tutorial
    • "Wikidata as an intuitive resource towards semantic data modeling in data FAIRification" short paper
    • "WikiCite, Wikidata, and Scholia: Linking Publications to Topics" (demo /food/ aspect)
  • Past: Workshop "Wikidata - what is that and why it's relevant in the field of geospatial information technologies?"? at Latvia's Geospatial Information Technology (GIT) conference (slides)
  • Past: Introduction to Wikidata for Wikipedians in Stokholm, Sweden, December 4th
  • Upcoming: Introduction to Wikidata for Wikipedians in Göteborg, Sweden, December 10th

• Press, articles, blog posts
  • "Detailed depictions with IIIF, Wikidata and Wikimedia Commons" by Martin Poulter, Bodleian Digital Library blog
  • Report of the GNDCon in the Kurier (in German)

• Other Noteworthy Stuff
  • iD, the default OSM editor at openstreetmap.org has recently had an update which pulls data from Wikidata.
  • WikidataCon 2019, the conference for open data enthusiasts, will take place on 25-26 October 2019 in Berlin
  • Miniature map will be displayed for coordinate properties
  • New passwords requirements will apply on all wikis to new accounts and privileged accounts starting on December 13th
  • New grant request by MySociety: Wikidata post-election updating toolkit

• Did you know?
  • Newest properties:
    • General datatypes: award rationale, heat treating, copyright status, level of description
    • External identifiers: SEINet ID, LIGA profile, BIBSYS work ID, UK Parliament identifier, Jewish Museum Berlin person ID, Vesti.kz person ID, Genius album ID, Genius song ID, TASS reference, OpenTrials ID, NooSFere story ID, DIR3 ID, L'Encyclopédie philosophique ID, TrENSmissions person ID
  • New property proposals to review:
    • General datatypes: creator, WordLift ID, Specific age inside fictional universe, type of rear suspensions, type of front suspensions, ride height, approach angle, departure angle, Drag coefficient, related category, SinemaTürk person ID, SinemaTürk film ID, Nombre annuel de passagers
    • External identifiers: BDEL ID, ZVR, NARA record group number, MMLO, IEC database ID commemorative monument of Catalonia, Meteorological Service of Canada climate ID, PomBase systematic ID, Volksbund ID, iTunes music movie ID, Paris Musées ID, Beachsoccer.ru player ID, BSRussia player ID
  • Query examples:
    • Map of fountains in Zürich (source)
    • Timeline of famous bryologists (source)
    • Percentage of people member of the Swedish church per Church parish (source)
    • Musical genres with the most bands and musicians on Wikidata, per sovereign country of origin/citizenship (source)

• Development
  • We are now showing the language name instead of the language code of a Gloss (phabricator:T203457, phabricator:T209931)
  • We added a Page property for easier programmatic access to the number of Senses and Forms of a Lexeme (phabricator:T199611)
  • The code samples in the query service have been improved (phabricator:T207749, thanks abian!)
  • We're working on tracking how often the different Lua functions that Wikibase provides are used in the Wikimedia project to see how that changes over time (phabricator:T191416)
  • We worked on and fixed a security incident related to blocking (phabricator:T210953)
  • We are continuing to bring the termbox (showing labels, descriptions, aliases) to mobile viewers

You can see all open tickets related to Wikidata here. If you want to help, you can also have a look at the tasks needing a volunteer.

• Monthly Tasks
  • Add labels, in your own language(s), for the new properties listed above.
  • Comment on property proposals: all open proposals
  • Suggested and open tasks!
  • Contribute to a Showcase item.
  • Help translate or proofread the interface and documentation pages, in your own language!
  • Help merge identical items across Wikimedia projects.
  • Help write the next summary!

Read the full report · Unsubscribe · Lea Lacroix (WMDE) 16:05, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Misleading usernames

68.39.274. 138 was a spoof account (or whatever). Tropicalkitty (talk) 22:44, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

Could you take a look at this thread?

Hi! Could you take a look at this thread?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Need_help

It involves one of your edits.

--Guy Macon (talk) 01:15, 15 December 2018 (UTC)