Grants talk:PEG/Wikimedia Slovakia/Wikipedia workshop within KAEST

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GAC member status for this application[edit]

Abstaining[edit]

No objection[edit]

Waiting for more details[edit]

  • Not yet ready for review, in my opinion. Tony (talk) 00:30, 25 August 2012 (UTC)

Some clarification[edit]

The idea of the project is quite simple and straightforward and fits well with strategy IMHO. Please clarify 2 points:

  • You wrote that "the Project's budget is prepared for 15 participants". Does it mean that the conference fee is just 5 EUR per person (75/15) and the lodging cost is just 12 EUR per person? (180/15) ? This is really very cheap :-) I guess that lodging, travel and fee cost is rather for 3 people (organizers)?
  • What was the results of 2010 workshop during KEAST?

Polimerek (talk) 20:40, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

  • The full conference fee is 10-30 € (it depends on date of registration and lodging land of participant) - yes, really cheap. 5 € is only "average fee of Wikipedia workshop" - the grant is intended to cover only workshop, not other parts of the conference. 12 € per person per night is normal prize in Slovakia ;) The conference is going to start in Thursday 15th Nov - on program is only Wikipedia workshop and small cultural program. Next day is going to be the second part of Wikipedia workshop from morning to noon. So we suppose the first day (and so the night as well) will participate especially Wikipedia-interested people due to the workshop. The idea is affected by WMCZ's foto workshop (travel, lodging for all attendants).
  • About concrete results of KAEST 2010 I am demanding the trainer (I didn't attend) and post it later. But from my own experience, people gets more involved to Wikipedia after such workshop/seminar/conference (I got involved to Wikimedia movement right after (Esperanto) Wikimania - 1 month after it I have cofounded Wikimedia Slovakia.)
KuboF (talk) 11:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

In addition to the above,

  • What is the rate of travel subsidy that you are offering? Is it possible to provide a break-up with real (geographic / mode) costs?
  • Do you expect a variation if the number of participants change?

Thanks

ViswaPrabha (വിശ്വപ്രഭ) (talk) 20:56, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

  • The plan is to fully cover costs and fees of trainers and organisers (workshop part of conference fee, travel, lodging, leans of room), to cover workshop part of conference fee and lodging for participants and from the balance partly cover travel costs for participants (proportionally to distance). We suppose the number of participants is going to increase so the travel-part will go down.
  • In case of successful grant we will can make the workshop for 2 days and divided into 2 groups by skill-level or language (instead of 1 day, 1 group) and so we will can invite local people (the capitol is near) to learn to contribute. For local people only travel cost will be applied.
KuboF (talk) 11:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the submission. Can you tell us more about KAEST? What are the people and the entities organizing this conference? Do you have the schedule and what's on it? How many people are expected to attend it? I also strongly support the question regarding the workshop in 2010. Do you have any report of this workshop and is it possible to find out more about it anywhere else? Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 01:19, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

  • KAEST is "Conference about Application of Esperanto in Science and Technology". It is organising by non-profit organisation Education@Internet (E@I), it's coordinator is mentioned Peter Baláž (he is also in board in WMSK). E@I helps to Wikimedia Slovakia as well - new official address, ideas, advices, mutuals projects. Basically the program scheme is similar to program from 2010, in case of successful grant will be added Wikipedia workshop in Thursday too.
KuboF (talk) 11:46, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick response and the additional information.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 14:26, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello, I am Marek Blahuš (Blahma), one of the foreseen trainers at the proposed Wikipedia workshop during KAEST 2012. I have also participated in KAEST 2006 (gave a lecture there) and 2010 (also with a talk, plus I helped to lead the Wikipedia workshop there). By the way, the conference has a long tradition, spanning 15 conferences and reaching back to 1978 when it was held for the first time (this history is detailed in the Esperanto article on KAEST). The most impressive result of KAEST 2010 is the 323-page proceedings which appeared in print (ISBN 978-80-89366-10-1), with summaries in Esperanto, English and Slovak. Esperanto summaries of all of the 34 presentations, with information on the speakers and their background, may be found at [1]. For many of the presentations, the accompanying slideshows are freely downloadable from [2]. Several photos from the 2010 conference have been put on Commons.
As for the 2010 KAEST Wikipedia workshop, there were approximately 15 participants. The most striking example of increased user activity is User:Miropiro, who later (sometime in early 2012) stated that his increased activity on Wikipedia and interest in writing articles, performing various kind of maintenance and studying the project's rules is owed mostly to the workshop he participated in during KAEST 2010. At that time, he already knew about Wikipedia, but had never before got enthusiastic about it enough. After his participation at the Wikipedia workshop at KAEST 2010, Miropiro's participation in the Esperanto Wikipedia (where he contributes the most) raised from an average of 43 monthly edits during the six months before KAEST 2010 to 149 edits a month during the six months following it, and his monthly edit count has dropped since the beginning of 2012 only due to personal circumstances (university graduation). Blahma (talk) 01:02, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
  • All this information sounds reasonably. I fully support this grant. Polimerek (talk) 09:45, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

GAC members who have read this but had no comment[edit]

  • I like the project and I vote for it. --Perohanych (talk) 13:13, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
  • 3BRBS (talk) 22:11, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
  • OK for me. notafish }<';> 07:46, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
  • --Ilario (talk) 21:16, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
  • --Ilario (talk) 21:16, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
  • When I had a questions this was a "draft". Now is "open" and all questions I wanted to ask, are asked :) The answers sounds reasonably and I support this. --MikyM (talk) 00:14, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Status[edit]

We've been assuming this proposal is ready for review, but it's still marked as draft. Please change its status to Open, on the grant page. Thanks. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 23:33, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

  • Done. The proposal was marked Draft only due to language control... --KuboF (talk) 01:43, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

What is it?[edit]

Hi, there seems to be no initial lead explaining where and what.

I must say, I'm not a fan of spending money and effort to promote Esperanto, which is not an effective medium, is highly Euro-centric, and adds to the more than 4000 languages we already have. Could there be a pitch as to why it will further the movement's strategic aims? Tony (talk) 05:58, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

I agree constructed languages are of very little impact on our mission -- nobody, or practically nobody, needs an Esperanto-language encyclopedia to obtain knowledge (as distinct from to practice one's Esperanto skills, or other such benefits).
Nevertheless, the other target languages mentioned are worth supporting. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 18:55, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
Michal, my questions are unchanged ... where is it to be held? Who is running it? The maths of €75 (per person?), €10–30, and €75 don't seem to make sense. How many sessions? How many days? How many nights' accommodation? Can you expand KAEST on its first occurrence, please? "More participants" likely ... so how is it being promoted? Tony (talk) 00:27, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Greetings, Tony, this is Iswikinumber2 (currently in transition to Jetam2). I am also inderectly involved in this project. The budgeted 180€ for night was meant for 15 participants per one night only, as the Wikipedia workshop is planned for one day. This page [3] has the accomodation price listed under "Loĝkotizoj". Also, as of today, 20 attendees have signed up. Link: [4]. I'm not sure what you mean by expanding KAEST on its first occurence and am not in the loop enough to be able to answer the promotion question. Thanks. Iswikinumber2 (talk) 20:11, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
  • Iswikinumber2, the workshop is intended for 2 days (Thursday evening, Friday morning to noon) - this is why one night accommodation! Promotion is made by E@I (organiser of the conference), last time, in 2010, there was 52 registered. In nowadays situation we cannot start promotion for Slovak participants because special Slovak group depends on this grant. Into article was added some infos about KAEST. --KuboF (talk) 17:50, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Hello, thank you Tony and Asaf for the criticism on the draft, we will work hard to improve it further. However, I do not think this is a good place to discuss the usefulness of planned languages or Esperanto's linguistic traits. Let me remind you that Esperanto is not the topic of the proposed seminar, it is just the language it will be held in. You are right that nobody needs the Esperanto Wikipedia to obtain knowledge -- however, many do use it and, most importantly, all Esperanto speakers are at least bilingual people (everyone has a mother tongue, and many speak also another languages). This makes it an international and extraordinarily multilingual community of people, who are actually very likely to provide great contribution towards fulfilling WMF's mission, which includes "support and development of multilingual wiki projects". It is of note that Esperanto Wikipedia was the 11th language version to be founded (still in 2001), that true multilingual support in Wikipedia (i.e. non-English alphabets) started with the addition of Esperanto diacritics by Brion Vibber (himself an Esperantist), and that the early adoption of Wikipedia by Esperantists all over the world gave birth to Wikipedias such as Czech, Slovak, Ossetian or Swahili -- all founded by speakers of Esperanto. Esperanto is the common link shared by these people, but each one of them lives their daily life in some national-language environment, so it is natural that Esperantists use and may also contribute to the respective Wikipedia as well. Examples of such a multilingual impact that a bunch of Esperantists just taught to write for Wikipedia may generate (as correctly foreseen by Asaf) are the results of previous workshops of this kind, such as a 2008 one aimed at promoting the region of Písek (articles related to the region, such as the one about Václav Švejcar, have been translated into many languages) or the 2011 workshop during the first Esperanto Wikimania held in and sponsored by the city of Svitavy (see a detailed list of results which includes articles in Czech, Dutch, English, Esperanto, French, German, Slovak). Blahma (talk) 21:26, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
Forty-four years ago at the age of 12, I spent my pocket-money on a copy of Teach yourself Esperanto, and read it. So I'm no stranger to the matter. Nowadays it sounds indulgent. Tony (talk) 07:16, 26 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for this additional background. I find it useful. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 16:20, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Refunds of trainers[edit]

In the grant was explicitly mentioned 2 trainers, now we have found 1 more and 2 assistants. So, in case of interest, we can arrange not only 2 but 3 groups and have more personal access to attendants. For attendants it's intended to partially cover travel cost, for active trainers and assistants we would like to full cover of travel costs. All trainers and assistants live near to conference (2 hours) and is planing communal travel to save money. --KuboF (talk) 23:03, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Approved. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 23:10, 14 November 2012 (UTC)