Template talk:User language category

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Imho, numbering fluency inside the categories differently from the labels in the boxes, is silly counter-intuitive. Nice to have the more fluent ones listed first, but you imho cannot sacrifice consistency for it. --Purodha Blissenbach 11:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]

The sort key is clearly explained and linked in the category text: "This category sorts German speakers by order of fluency (1=native, 2=fluent, 3=intermediate, 4=basic)." This is far more meaningful and intuitive than the counterintuitive order using the same characters would cause (if you're looking for translators, you don't expect to be given the worst speakers first). The sort key is not equivalent to the proficiency code, it is just a way to sort the category; we could even use !"#$ if those are less confusing.
For every use of the category I can think of, it is more useful to view the most proficient users first. Usability is much more important than consistency with a number that is not relevant to the category.
{admin} Pathoschild 20:57:48, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi Pathochild, could you then correct them, please. They don't make any sense as they are listed on the page: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:User_la where la_N means like a native speaker and la_0 means hardly intelligible.--Rafaelgarcia 22:37, 14 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Oh after rereading your comment I think I understand. the explanation after en: isn't meant to have anything with the proficiency rating. It's confusing though...oh well--Rafaelgarcia 01:03, 15 November 2008 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Unfortunately that can't be helped, due to the way categories are sorted. —Pathoschild 01:22:18, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
If sorting from the top (5–0) is difficult, we could try to maintain consistency by sorting from the bottom but with a negative start point (-5–0), which would allow ru-4 and ar-1 to be -4 and -1 in shorthand and also allow -4 to precede -1 on a scale where priority lessens as user skill level descends. As the IELTS test and a plethora of other systems for determining competency in a given language provide greater numbers for increased proficiency, it is sensible that our template graphics already follow this overwhelming trend. Either way, i would also like to see some scripting to allow The following 200 pages are in this category, out of XXX total. to further show where in the category of users (e.g., 1–200) the reader is viewing. I am also disappointed that; despite French being an official language of the AU, the EU, the OAS, the Pacific Islands Forum, and the UN; a user with preferences set to French must translate Category:User es from English or Spanish, other world languages, in order to understand the backwards ratings system when going there to get help from someone proficient in Spanish. If such users should happen to have endangered native tongues, to barely know French, and also to not know the other two languages, they are likely to click on the 4 or 5 link based on the graphic or previous experience. The possible user situation described above and ones like it are prevalent in the least educated societies that need Wikimedia the most. It is confounding that we do not at least have a few preference-based translations instead of forcing English on everyone. Warmest Regards, :)—thecurran Speak your mind my past 17:03, 18 January 2010 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Parser function sorts differently[edit]

Please see Template talk:User language#Parser function sorts differently. - dcljr 08:37, 31 January 2012 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Double redirect[edit]

In Category:User ru you have a "double redirect": category contains itself. I guess that it is due to this very template. But I don't know yet how to fix it. -- Jarash (talk) 18:17, 4 July 2013 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Automatically detect the language[edit]

Hello. I wonder if instead of {{user language category|aa|translation=<!-- none -->}} the template could work without the "aa" and detect the language automatically from the category name. Since all of them are of the form "User aa" where "aa" is the language code, that'd allow to categorize all of those quicker. Maybe a LUA script? Best regards (ping @Pathoschild:). —MarcoAurelio 16:42, 10 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yep, this will give you the language code associated with the current category page (e.g. "en" for "Category:User en"):
{{#invoke:String|match|{{PAGENAME}}|^User (.+)$}}
Pathoschild 18:50, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
@Pathoschild: Thank you. In this case, shall I
{{user language category|{{#invoke:String|match|{{PAGENAME}}|^User (.+)$}}|translation=<!-- none -->}}
on all categories, or the code of this template itself can be modified so it works without having to invoke the module on each page? If the template can be modified to support this, could you handle it? You're better on coding that me. Best regards, —MarcoAurelio 09:13, 11 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I can change the template directly, but backward compatibility will be difficult. We should update all usages to remove the language code first. Unfortunately I'm not set up to run a local bot anymore; do you know anyone who runs a general bot on Meta lately? —Pathoschild 01:09, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
Hi @Pathoschild: Thanks for your reply. I run MABot here regularly for general maintenance, however it won't be difficult for you to re-activate Pathosbot for this task ;-) —MarcoAurelio 08:35, 12 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Since you already have a bot up and running, we'll just use that one. ;) We need to remove the first argument and shift the translation argument over (or use the named parameter). For example:
current code new code
{{user language category|en}}
{{user language category}}
{{user language category|fr|2=Cette catégorie recense les utilisateurs parlant le français, organisés par niveaux de maitrise (1 = langue maternelle, 2 = avancé, 3 = intermédiaire, 4 = élémentaire).}}
{{user language category|translation=Cette catégorie recense les utilisateurs parlant le français, organisés par niveaux de maitrise (1 = langue maternelle, 2 = avancé, 3 = intermédiaire, 4 = élémentaire).}}
Once that's done, updating the template to detect the code automatically will be pretty straightforward. —Pathoschild 00:08, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
I think I can do this with WP:AWB pretty easily. I'll try. —MarcoAurelio 13:47, 13 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've done some, but I stopped since I had another idea. I think that we can even get rid of the |translation= parameter in order to have that text centraly translated. With {{TNT}}, {{Dynamite}} and {{Fallback}} we can create a translatable template, with text being imported from a central source where we can use the translate extension to manage the translations. I think I might need some help to set that up though. —MarcoAurelio 17:38, 13 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
However I wonder if that would be possible @Steinsplitter, Kaganer, and BaseMarcoAurelio 17:56, 13 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I will continue with the replacements meanwhile. The worst thing that can happen if this is ever possible is that I have to run again the bot to remove the "translations=" parameter. —MarcoAurelio 18:00, 13 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done. —MarcoAurelio 18:14, 13 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I updated the template to detect the language code automatically; it seems to be working fine on the pages I checked, but let me know if you notice any issues. —Pathoschild 01:31, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Hmm. It's an interesting task ;) --Kaganer (talk) 21:24, 13 April 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Category loop & unneeded translation[edit]

@Pathoschild: the categories that use this template are caught in a category loop i.e. they are being categorised within themselves - see for example category:User de. By the way, do we really need to use this template in category:User en? Green Giant (talk) 00:11, 31 May 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hello Green Giant. The translation won't be shown on Category:User en anymore, but I don't think we can do anything about the category loop — it's added by the {{#babel:}} example, and there's no option to suppress the category. Does it cause any issues? —Pathoschild 02:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for the translation change. As far as I can tell, there aren't any problems other than the category loop. We'll just have to put up with it. Green Giant (talk) 10:54, 31 May 2016 (UTC)Reply[reply]

ISO 639 code not working[edit]

dsl (Danish Sign Language) is on the list of ISO 639 language codes which Babel utilizes. Yet {{User language category}} doesn't understand it when used on Category:User dsl. Am I doing something wrong? (Ping @Pathoschild: since they appear to be the go-to person for this.) --InsaneHacker (talk) 02:23, 6 July 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]

That language code does seem to be in Babel's language list, so I'm not sure why Babel (and {{#language:}}) aren't recognising it. You may need to ask the Babel or MediaWiki developers via IRC or Phabricator. —Pathoschild 05:38, 06 July 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks very much for the reply. I'm currently on vacation so I'll probably do it when I get home. InsaneHacker (talk) 05:44, 6 July 2017 (UTC)Reply[reply][edit] Siridech (talk) 14:20, 9 March 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]