Grants talk:PEG/WM BR/Start-up

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GAC member status[edit]

Abstaining[edit]

No objection[edit]

  1. notafish }<';> 10:34, 8 October 2012 (UTC) Looks good to me. note that this can really only go ahead with AffCom approval, though.
  2. -- Namayan (talk) 23:42, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
  3. KTC (talk) 07:18, 19 October 2012 (UTC)
  4. --ProtoplasmaKid (talk) 23:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC)
  5. Polimerek (talk) 13:25, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
  6. --Ilario (talk) 11:53, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
  7. Mayur (talkEmail) 17:52, 18 December 2012 (UTC), all budget head seems to be well distributed, it looks fine to me.

Objection[edit]

  1. Béria Lima msg 23:12, 26 October 2012 (UTC) Until AffCom approval.

Waiting for more details[edit]

Two Technical Comments[edit]

  1. This request is submitted exceedingly late, for a conference planned for next weekend. There is no way the GAC would have enough time to deliberate on the merit of this proposal within that time frame, not to mention the paperwork and actual wiring of funds, if approved. I see only two possibilities: either postpone the event by at least five weeks, or come up with interim funding to be reimbursed later, taking the chance this would ultimately not be approved. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 01:39, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
    +1 notafish }<';> 09:20, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
  2. The latter half of the proposal, involving incorporation and administration expenses, is usually granted to newly-recognized chapters as a "start-up grant". I would encourage you to separate the two halves of this proposal into two separate requests -- one for the conference, which is both more urgent and simpler to evaluate, and one for the start-up grant, for which we would be seeking input from AffCom and will likely need significantly more time to review. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 01:39, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
    +2 I would advise splitting the grant request as well. notafish }<';> 09:20, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

I would add another comment to the Asaf's second remark, which is correct, I would like also to understand if the meetings for Wiki Loves Monuments are preparative works and if you plan to ask for another grant to prepare Wiki Loves Monuments 2013 afterwards. In my opinion the organization of WLM is too early, the event 2012 is not finished yet and in general the better solution is to wait the end of the current event to collect feedbacks for a better organization next year. No problem if you plan to meet to start the minimum requirements for this event like the list of monuments or the website. In the project scope and in the measure these points are unclear, I would ask you to add them. --Ilario (talk) 07:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Another remark is connected with the measures of the success and also the question of the project goals in general, both indicate that you are focused on the establishment, but it is not clear why you plan WikiBrasil and what you expect from this activity and also what you expect from the other projects. For instance you plan microgrants, how you manage them? How you assign microgrant to members? Do you have a policy or a procedure? In the description you write "For innovative projects from community" but in general microgrants are small amount of money to buy hardware or to have small programs, it's really hard to create an innovative project with this amount. In my opinion I suggest you to develop better the mandatory part of the grant (project scope, project goals, measures) in order to have a shorter discussion. --Ilario (talk) 07:55, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your comments! Following your suggestions, we splitted the request. This one is for the chapter start-up. For the national conference, we've created Grants:Wikimedians in Brazil/WikiBrasil 2012. CasteloBrancomsg 02:23, 6 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Ilario. The sections "scope", "goals" and "measures" were expanded, following your suggestion. I hope it's more clear now. Quick responses: maybe we'll ask another grant for WLM 2013, maybe not. It depends on partners/sponsors we don't have now, so that's why we need to start earlier. The limit of USD 250 for microgrants is an estimative. India, Australia and UK have funded smaller amounts (even USD 8!), and as we are used to try & find ways to make activities spending no money at all, this would represent a huge upgrade. CasteloBrancomsg 17:30, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Remarks[edit]

Apart from the remarks above, I find this to be a really great idea and I hope you can pull it through as I believe getting together and planning together face to face is a great asset for the development of a chapter and/or group of volunteers wanting to develop activities on a wider scale. This said, i would like to see a little more "content" to the meetup, maybe with a draft agenda of what workshops, working groups and panel discussions are going to be all about. Thanks! notafish }<';> 09:27, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Thanks! Following your suggestion, we've included the schedule in the request, now in Grants:Wikimedians in Brazil/WikiBrasil 2012. CasteloBrancomsg 02:57, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Realistic budget[edit]

I am totally in favor of this proposal, in consideration of Asaf's remarks above. I would just like to clarify if the budget is realistic (is it really sufficient), considering the measure of success it would like to achieve?

  • regional meetings are held in 6 different cities in Brazil
Are these regional meetings in a form of a conference or just meet-ups of Wikimedians/Wikipedians?
  • photo contests/photo scavenger hunts are completed in 6 different cities in Brazil
I'd like to know more details about this if the proponent/s wouldn't mind to expound further. I really think the proposed grant isn't sufficient to accomplish these measures of success. Forgive my ignorance, I don't know how much it costs to run such activities there. -- Namayan (talk) 16:40, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Hi, Namayan. The volunteers can decide what best fits for them, if a conference or an informal meet-up. But we expect to share the reports of our national conference with the local communities, specially including those who couldn't attend the national event. Therefore, we expect to have some funds for reimbursement of some expenses incurred when doing that and with the photo events, but it doesn't have to cover everything. The volunteers are free to think about partnerships with other movements or to take part in other events, in order to share the costs. In regional meetings with no travel included, it can be made for free, as we are already used to do. The format of the photo local event is similar, it can be defined by the local community. During the national conference, we intend to share some ways of making this expending the less money as possible, and the people can choose what works best for each city, in their opinion. That's why we don't have the details now. CasteloBrancomsg 22:30, 10 October 2012 (UTC)
Thank you for your response, I guess you have a good grasp of how things should be executed and you don't monopolize ideas, though personally having gone through projects and activities, it is also encouraging to provide participants something, like some Wikipedia merchandise, snacks. Just my two cents. -- Namayan (talk) 01:17, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Good cents! These are exactly the kind of expenses we expect to cover with this request. The less we expend, the more we can do. Six cities are just an estimation, based on the cities where we already have a group of active volunteers. CasteloBrancomsg 20:20, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Could we have more details in the budget? What does "other fees" comprise? The bookkeeper comes to $1847; how much per hour is that? Which six cities (sorry to be a bore, but I'm used to seeing a breakdown of X fares by ?train, or X km by car at $0.YY cents per km). The WLM prep will be a one-day event in each city? Who will organise each? How will they be advertised? What venue or meeting points? Any estimate of the upper and lower ranges of attendances? Tony (talk) 13:59, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
Other *fees*, in Brazil we have a number of prerequisites to open an association, as published in the newspaper that we will do an assembly, do the assembly, we have to create records, print dozens of pages, authenticate all papers ...
For moral and legal obligation, we must make monthly reports on our income, so the payment would be per month, not per hour, in my understanding.
The other questions I can not answer you because the AffCom is taking too long to respond to us, we do not know when and if we will do, because if they take longer than 3 weeks we will not be able to organize ourselves to WLM, or other activities and meetings. PS:Alias ​​frankly I do not think we can do anymore WLM this year. With all this delay, we will not be able to establish the necessary partnerships, mobilize volunteers, asking for authorizations and other bureaucratic processes to make it happen.Rodrigo Tetsuo Argenton m 09:54, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Costs of administration[edit]

Thanks for the submission and kudos to the Wikimedians in Brasil for the start with these operations. My main concern is regarding the costs of administration that you have on monthly base in your budget. How do you plan to cover these costs after the expiry of the period for these activities with no money left from this grant? Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski (talk) 22:27, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, Kiril. The grant is not supposed to cover all of our operations indefinitely. As a "start-up", it covers only the minimum legally required, just to get the organization off the ground. We'll have our own donations and partnerships in order to cover the recurring expenses. CasteloBrancomsg 20:45, 17 October 2012 (UTC)
Updated. CasteloBrancomsg 20:50, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Status clarification[edit]

As the majority of the remaining expenses are related to incorporation, this proposal is pending a recommendation for recognition of this group by AffCom. We shall resume discussion if and when such a recommendation is made. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 07:35, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

Moving to withdrawn[edit]

I am moving this draft proposal to withdrawn. It can be reopened any time by changed the status back to draft or open. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 23:18, 16 January 2015 (UTC)