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The Wikimedia Forum is a central place for questions and discussions about the Wikimedia Foundation and its projects. (For discussion about the Meta wiki, see Meta:Babel.)
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Changes to WMF Non-discrimination policy[edit]

Regarding this edit to WMF's Non-discrimination policy, made in March this year, changing "The Wikimedia Foundation prohibits discrimination against current or prospective users and employees on the basis of ..." to "The Wikimedia Foundation prohibits discrimination against staff or contractors on the basis of..." (changes emboldened for clarity); does this mean that WMF now allows discrimination against volunteers and readers?

Where was this announced, or discussed? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:18, 28 September 2017 (UTC)

I would welcome some clarification too. --Nemo 15:04, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
Hi all. I helped work on this policy update and can offer some clarification. The policy was not being applied to users even before the change, and the interpretation had been consistent that it applied only to Wikimedia Foundation staff. When we were going through to update the categories to bring it in line with modern standards, we felt that it should be clarified as a staff-focused policy (again, the way it already had been even before the change) so we updated the wording per the edit you link. Note that this doesn't mean that suddenly wikis are allowed to unfairly discriminate against people. Doing so might constitute a violation of the Terms of Use (such as harassing or abusing others, or violating their privacy in some cases), and there are a number of community policies on different wikis that likely prohibit discriminatory behavior in different contexts. We just clarified that this specific policy is one focused on Foundation staff. -Jrogers (WMF) (talk) 18:23, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
"modern standards" which standards would these be? "doesn't mean that suddenly wikis are allowed to unfairly discriminate ..." Wikis are inanimate. "community policies" - such policies do not apply to staff, in their off-wiki roles. Frankly, I'm less than reassured by your response. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 17:48, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
  • In the Category:Cooler heads, it seems on the surface there is no way to interpret this other than a possible error. I suspect the Board of Trustees was not consulted on this rather small change to a WMF-wide policy, because this edit really does exactly what the template at the top of the page says it must not: It may not be circumvented, eroded, or ignored by Wikimedia Foundation officers or staff nor local policies of any Wikimedia project, emphasis added. Although this NDP may not appear (to staff) to be in use within the community, it has in fact been cited multiple times in disputes, particularly certain cases where community administrators were acting in concert in opposition to this policy. This policy, like many WMF policies, are used as authority by community internal governance structures, undergirding local implementations and guiding community actions. It is part of our Soft Security - a guide post in that context.

    Saying there is one set of policies for staff and a different set for the community will likely have negative effects. - Amgine/meta wikt 18:34, 6 October 2017 (UTC)

I was surprised to see this here, but I was previously aware of some confusion. Please see the English Wikipedia version of this at [1] which retains the old wording (but seems to interpret it away). BTW, this was created by a then-Arb on EnWiki @Roger Davies:. See my reaction (similar to @Pigsonthewing:) at [2]. The posting there was apparently prompted by this discussion which goes back to the bad old days when it was possible to openly bait women editors with foul language, and a woman proposed a place where only women editors could edit. I've got mixed feelings all around, but

  • It looks like we'll have to modify the EnWiki version somehow, and
  • The WMF board should do something to encourage all projects to come up with an anti-discrimination policy that applies to users.

@Slaporte (WMF), Jrogers (WMF), and EHershenov (WMF):

Smallbones (talk) 15:36, 27 October 2017 (UTC)

@Jrogers (WMF): Are you willing to revert your edit? If not, what is the path for appealing this within WMF? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 07:02, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

@Jrogers (WMF): hello ??? Are you going to discuss any of this ? I mean the policy is even categorised under "wikimedia wiki policies", if you no longer consider it to be so (which is my current reading), then you should recategorise it. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:02, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Apologies all that I haven't gotten back to this. That is a good catch on the sidebar category, we had missed that and should move it to the board and staff section, so we'll update that accordingly. With regard to the request to change or revert the edit, I'm not able to help with that. This change was reviewed by several WMF staff including the ED and was approved by the board, so although I was asked to make the update, I can't undo it or change it without their permission. -Jrogers (WMF) (talk) 01:14, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
Adjusted in this edit. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:30, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Why I do not make a financial contribution to Wikipedia.[edit]

The way Wikipedia took sides in the copyright case of the Monkey selfie photos taken by British nature photographer David Slater was disgraceful.

I thought Wikipedia was supposed to take a "neutral point of view". How is this compatible with your stance of taking sides against the photographer in this dispute? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ad1mt (talk)

Note that there is no [incorporated] entity named "Wikipedia". Wikipedia doesn't receive any donations. Nemo 16:17, 18 October 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia asks for neutrally written encyclopaedic articles. Wikimedia Foundation has a range of neutral and activist positions on a range of topics. Please feel free to read more about the Foundation at their website. Also differentiate the Foundation from the volunteers.  — billinghurst sDrewth 11:02, 26 October 2017 (UTC)

Unresolved issue of Wikimedia servers changing gamma value in grayscale PNG images[edit]

See unresolved (or any other reaction) issue: Wikimedia_Forum/Archives/2017-08#Different_rendering_of_the_same_PNG_image. —Mykhal (talk) 12:26, 28 October 2017 (UTC)


Wikipedia changing some Unicode characters[edit]

Hi, I have noticed that during editation (after preview or save), some Unicode characters are without any obvious reason and warning, replaced with others by the server.

For instance ʹ (U+0374 GREEK NUMERAL SIGN) → ʹ (U+02B9 MODIFIER LETTER PRIME).

(So the first character had to be represented as its HTML entity to prevent the conversion.)

Is it intentional?

Mykhal (talk) 12:37, 28 October 2017 (UTC)

Can you point to a page where this happens? Ruslik (talk) 08:26, 29 October 2017 (UTC)
Any page, including this one, as implied. I am not 100.00% sure it's a server problem, but verified that it behaves consistently in different browsers and platforms, on several different wikimedia servers. Just copy both symbols from the rendered text (not source) from my initial post, paste here in the textarea when editing, make preview, and verify that they became the same. (If they looked the same before as well, you have to use more sophisticated char comparison/determination method, like using Character Identifier (FF) or Unicode Analyzer (Cr) browser extension. —Mykhal (talk) 01:47, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Text in MediaWiki is converted to Unicode Normalization Form Canonical Composition (NFC), which specifies that replacement among many others. See also the normalization FAQ at unicode.org. Anomie (talk) 13:33, 30 October 2017 (UTC)
Thanks, this is satisfactory explanation, performing of the normalization is reasonable, and I should probably challenge this particular canonization rule at very different place. —Mykhal (talk) 18:05, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Wanted Pages[edit]

Is there any way to solve a big and ancient issue in the Wanted Pages special page in every single Wikipedia? In every wiki there are files listed as a wanted page with a huge number of articles linking to it, as you can see in the english page for example: However, when this wanted file pages are created, they are not deleted from the wanted page list, and they have remained there month, after month, after month, and I guess that even for years, without a way of replacing them. This is absurd one, because there is a special page for Wanted Files in every wiki, and second, because this problem turns what would be an useful page to improve every wiki into an annoyance that makes it less useful for everyone. Other similar special pages don't have this problem, in my case, for examle, I have created dozens of wanted categories in the Spanish wiki thanks to a feature that works the way it is supposed to. I am sure this is an issue that could be solved easily with someone that nows about codes, and I think that, being a widespread issue in every wikipedia, it should be a priority to have it sorted out. --Pencho15 (talk) 21:26, 30 October 2017 (UTC)

Participate in Dispute Resolution Focus Group[edit]

The Harvard Negotiation & Mediation Clinical Program is working with the Wikimedia Foundation to help communities develop tools to resolve disputes. You are invited to participate in a focus group aimed at identifying needs and developing possible solutions through collaborative design thinking.

If you are interested in participating, please add your name to the signup list on the Meta-Wiki page.

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to learn from the Wikimedia community. We value your opinions and look forward to hearing from you. JosephNegotiation (talk) 21:56, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

typo in userbox content[edit]

Category:User hi the 'hi-N' userbox have right now 'सामान', which should be 'समान'. Please fix it! Thanks – 1997kB (talk) 05:55, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

@1997kB: the relevant template is Template:User language/hi. Probably better that a native speaker reviews and fixes it.  — billinghurst sDrewth 06:35, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
@Billinghurst: Thanks for reply, but the output of hi-N in Category:User hi is different than Template:User language/hi. How is that possible? – 1997kB (talk) 07:45, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
(facepalm) All the text for the language templates now comes from mw:Extension:Babel which stores the text at http://translatewiki.net It will need to be edited there, and that is outside my area of expertise. I suggest that you start that conversation at translatewiki:support, and mention Extension:Babel.  — billinghurst sDrewth 09:29, 4 November 2017 (UTC)
@Billinghurst:Ok, I will raise this issue on translatewiki:support. Thanks for help! – 1997kB (talk) 09:57, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

What's differences between "Wikimedia Hackathon" and "Wikimania Hackathon"?[edit]

--Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 12:40, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

They're two different events. The "Wikimedia Hackathon" is a standalone event held annually, usually somewhere in Europe. The "Wikimania Hackathon" is associated with Wikimania, in the same place, for people who want to show up a few days early and have a hackathon. Anomie (talk) 14:45, 6 November 2017 (UTC)
See also mw:Hackathons/FAQ#Explain_the_differences_between_the_Wikimedia_Hackathon_and_the_Wikimania_Hackathon? --Base (talk) 16:55, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Strategy banner on outreach[edit]

On outreach.wikimedia I had a banner asking me to discuss the movement strategy right now. That's too late now. Either somebody forgot to turn off the banner on outreach or the text should be changed from discussing to endorsement. --Gereon K. (talk) 16:09, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

Might it be some ancient tab you had open for ages and only now got to view it? Or perhaps a direct link with &banner=whatever in it? I do not see any Strategy related campaigns, the Cycle 3 campaign has ended on 2017-09-15 23:59 and there are no new ones. --Base (talk) 16:52, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
On https://outreach.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page I have a greybrown bar saying "Join us for discussing the future of the Wikimedia movement through 2030." which links to Strategy/Wikimedia movement/2017, right under "Translate this page" at the top of the page - even after purging. --Gereon K. (talk) 16:56, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Oh, lol. Indeed. That is just a directly included into the Main page block: outreach:Special:Diff/120911/161058. I will remove it now. --Base (talk) 16:59, 7 November 2017 (UTC)
Дякую --Gereon K. (talk) 17:12, 7 November 2017 (UTC)

question on wikinews license compatibility.[edit]

According to Wikinews/License, wikinews switched to cc-by 2.5 license to facilitate one-way compatibility with GFDL and maximize distribution. Does that mean nowadays wikinews content can be reused on wikipedia directly and not the other way round? Would it be possible to import wikipedia content into wikinews via for example saying explicitly it require sharealike? C933103 (talk) 18:27, 11 November 2017 (UTC)

There is no problem in importing content both ways. See en:License_compatibility#Creative_Commons_license_compatibility. Ruslik (talk) 20:02, 11 November 2017 (UTC)
That chart seems to be for combining, not for migration, is it not? On some Wikinews content under CC BY-SA is allowed given that it is explicitly marked by a template. Otherwise it is not allowed. --Base (talk) 19:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
Correct - someone changed that chart from image-based to table-based, wrongly added "From" and "To" to it in the process (now removed). --Moonian (talk) 05:12, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
Read more: https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-combine-material-under-different-creative-commons-licenses-in-my-work --Moonian (talk) 05:17, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

So, is it possible to mixing cc-by-sa content into wikinews using methods like declaring the license on the page being different from rest of the content? Or is there any motion to further change wikinews' license? As it seems like one of the reason why wikinews adopted cc-by 2.5 is because of compatbility with wikipedia.C933103 (talk) 05:38, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

@C933103 and Moonian: I am crying (with tears) to request you two: could you please do not do any Transwiki things from any CC BY-SA sites to Wikinews (at least until a legal team member says yes)? By such Transwiki services we can also transwiki them to MediaWiki Help namespace WHICH IS UNDER PUBLIC DOMAIN! --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:34, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226:...Where did you see I've done something like that? All I've done was correcting someone's edit in an en.wiki article... --Moonian (talk) 17:04, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
And, on the contrary, I was actually discouraging others to do such transwiki stuff... --Moonian (talk) 17:28, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
@Moonian: You restored both zh:Template:移动到维基新闻 and zh:Template:Vmn, which both are aim to transwiki contents to Wikinews. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 00:12, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@Liuxinyu970226: Again, where did you see that? I'm not a sysop there (as well as anywhere) and so I don't have the rights to restore those (or any other) pages. Also, I'm not the one who applied to restore those pages; on the contrary, I applied to revoke that decision. --Moonian (talk) 00:59, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
@EHershenov (WMF): Since this discussion does affecting legal. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 14:35, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Changes to the global ban policy[edit]

Hello. Some changes to the community global ban policy have been proposed. Your comments are welcome at m:Requests for comment/Improvement of global ban policy. Please translate this message to your language, if needed. Cordially. Matiia (Matiia) 00:34, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Luchii astigarraga[edit]

Luchii [redactado] --Luchiiara (talk) 21:26, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

@Luchiiara: Si tienes solo [redactado], puedes ser un editor per es una idea buena ver ese guía primero: w:es:Wikipedia:Guía para los más pequeños. —Justin (koavf)TCM 21:46, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
@Koavf: Justin, if you would be so kind, please further explain that at minimum she should not be sharing personal information about her friends (without their permission, but there is really no way to prove their permission here). StevenJ81 (talk) 22:03, 14 November 2017 (UTC)
@Luchiiara: Tambien es muchisimo importante no dar informacio'n personal de ti o tus amigos. —Justin (koavf)TCM 22:58, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

Everipedia violating wikipedia copyright?[edit]

According to w:User:Leprof_7272/Everipedia, Everipedia:

  • require users to waive ownership on all content submitted to the site
  • import more than 5 million articles from wikipedia.

That would mean Everipedia have been massively violating the "Share alike" clause in wikipedia's term of use?

  • Note: On 2017 Jan, they updated their terms page, which claim they their content are available under cc-by-sa, however,
    • In the section for "License to User Content" in their term, it still say "Everipedia owns all right and title in and to the collective content of the Service,".
    • They also claims content on their site cannot be use for commercial user unless expressly authorized by them which is incompatible with cc-by-sa.

Additionally, in the reference link, although the bot being used to import page from wikipedia into everipedia have noted in its user description that it is an "Official Wikipedia Import Bot", however, when the bot is being used to import pages from wikipedia, it does not say it is imported from wikipedia on anywhere on the page itself, nor in the edit history. That would mean they have also violated the attribution requirment in wikipedia's term of use?

Can WMF do something about it?C933103 (talk) 19:25, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

@C933103: This definitely violates the Terms of Use. I recommend Contacting legal. (I have done this previously with a trademark infringement.) —Justin (koavf)TCM 19:44, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
MailedC933103 (talk) 19:58, 15 November 2017 (UTC)
@C933103: Thanks. If you think of it, let me know what they say--I'm curious. —Justin (koavf)TCM 20:37, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Interaction Timeline alpha demo is ready for testing[edit]

Hello all,

The Interaction Timeline alpha version is ready for testing. The Anti-Harassment Tools team appreciates you spending a few minutes to try out the tool and let us know if there is value in displaying the interactions in a vertical timeline instead of the approach used with the existing interaction analysis tools.

Also we interested in learning about which additional functionality or information we should prioritize developing.

Comments can be left on the discussion page on meta. or you can share your ideas by email.

Thank you,

For the Anti-Harassment Tools Team, SPoore (WMF) (talk) , Community Advocate, Community health initiative (talk) 20:39, 15 November 2017 (UTC)