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Hello. In light of the very slow speed the process is being handled, mainly because just one or maybe two of us are processing things there, I'd like to propose to appoint some delegates to perform the notification job. The appointment of stewards' delegates is allowed by policy. I'd like to propose Rschen7754 and Billinghurst, both former stewards and very hard-working people with knowledge of the process. We badly need help there so also if anybody else is interested if they could please list their name here that'd be good. Best regards. —MarcoAurelio 18:49, 27 June 2016 (UTC)

I would like to add that if anyone has some ideas how to make this process technically easier, that would also be a great help, as the current way of doing it is rather tedious and off-putting (certainly to me, and I kind of invented it). --MF-W 22:14, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
+1; maybe the possibility to bot-message the users and the pumps would help a lot? —MarcoAurelio 22:17, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
@MarcoAurelio: I am never sure that I was particularly active with the original set of notifications, let alone the follow-up. I am aware that there is the need for a systematic process for the components, and the use of bots and tools to get the process function. It would be useful to identify the mechanics of the parts that are being undertaken, and where you are wishing to have assistance, ie. what is/are the bottleneck/s?

Further what have stewards done to investigate streamlining the process? For example, has use of stewardbots been considered? What about mediawiki message delivery? Have you a process to have the pertinent messages available in recipient languages? These sorts of initiatives should improve compliance and involvement of the relevant communities.  — billinghurst sDrewth 09:52, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

I'm not sure that I will have much if any time to contribute, but I suppose it does no harm to leave me as a delegate, just in case.
I copied and pasted the most used translations into a file, and had that on hand instead of having to manually copy and paste from the translations page. It may be possible to use MediaWiki message delivery or streamline the process as suggested above. --Rschen7754 08:09, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
Also, I think the new "activity log" that was added this year is unnecessary and just adds extra paperwork. --Rschen7754 08:19, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

A few additional thoughts:

  1. There is some inconsistency in notifying users on other wikis apart from the one where the rights would be removed. Do we need to do this? I did out of a courtesy, but it is not required per policy.
    Also, there are crosswiki notifications, something I didn't have when I did AAR14.
  2. MassMessage could be used to speed up things if there are a lot of users at one wiki: we could set up a list of users, and then message them all. The messages could probably be left as "Your admin/bureaucrat status on the Chinese Wikipedia" and then we could assume that crats could figure out that they have the crat bit too.
    Or, we could batch it up and say "Your admin/bureaucrat status on this wiki", but it would require the messages to be re-translated.
    As far as languages, we could either just use English and add a link to other translations, or do all the English language ones, the Spanish ones, etc.
    Speaking of which, for the smaller languages, I often had to figure out what language to use, by looking at Wikipedia and figuring out what "czb" or whatever was, then going back to Wikipedia and figuring out what major language that was closest to, then if we had a translation for that, or if not, just falling back to English. Having a conversion table for that would help so we didn't have to reinvent the wheel every year.
  3. Unfortunately, I can't figure out a way to streamline the village pump notifications, beyond the hope that doing the individual notifications would cause some folks to resign and save us some of the work. Unless using MassMessage would at least keep us out of having to go to the individual wiki and navigating the edit window, or we could instead of listing the individual users, say "go to this page on Meta and see who is listed under your wiki" but that's a mess and might not fly. --Rschen7754 02:27, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

The problem I see with MassMessage is that only allows a specific message to be delivered on one single language, so we would need to build a list of users by language and message them all. Also, since the messages on the village pumps have to contain the names of the affected users, that makes it un-massmessageable. Maybe for last year we could ask if somebody would be willing to program a bot that, parsing data from the /Data page, could reach village pumps and users on that project with the appropriate messages; but I'm not sure if that'll be easy to do or not. —MarcoAurelio 11:09, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

I suppose administrators on Zulu language Wikipedia are able to comprehend Zulu etc. And sending messages by wiki is what has been done all the time, as far as I am aware. Or is your point that most wikis are smallish ones with only 2-3 affected users each at max.? --Vogone (talk) 12:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Hmph, what? I mean that we should use a bot which, parsing the names from /Data, picks the translated messages for the language of the project then post them to the village pumps and user talk pages.—MarcoAurelio 16:50, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
Even if there was such a thing as cross-wiki preloading of edit pages, it would make things easier. Or if not, even a link to a "new section" for the user talk page, and to CentralAuth. --Rschen7754 03:22, 22 July 2016 (UTC)


Well, I had the time, so I just went ahead and did the rest of the notifications. Removals should start around August 5th. --Rschen7754 03:22, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

I can't thank you enough. THANK YOU. —MarcoAurelio 10:44, 22 July 2016 (UTC)

Latin Vicipaedia[edit]

Thank you for your work on this, and I'm sorry that we at Vicipaedia were slow to reply. In fact we do have a policy of our own -- this is it in English -- but we hadn't got round to applying it in the case of la:Usor:Myces, hoping he would show up again. You've meanwhile notified him, and I guess you may as well continue with your process in his case. However, in future, we'll keep an eye on this issue and notify inactive admins ourselves. OK? Andrew Dalby (talk) 15:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

@Andrew Dalby: In this case the global policy cannot be applied - you will need to request this at SRP if you want their rights to be removed. --Rschen7754 00:25, 26 July 2016 (UTC)

Allow some kinds of snowball close?[edit]

In Steward_requests/Global_permissions#Global_sysop_for_DAR7, User:Ruslik0 closed the request for "It makes no sense to continue this discussion". However, this is against Meta:Snowball, which says no discussion can be closed early. I proposedpropose to accept some kinds of snowball close if there're clear consensus against something.--GZWDer (talk) 12:03, 12 July 2016 (UTC)

SRGP is better questioned at SN, moved. — regards, Revi 12:41, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Where did you propose this? I can't find it. --MF-W 13:11, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Meta:Snowball says "Don't close discussions early; editors from the English Wikipedia, please note that we don't do Snowball closures on Meta-Wiki." I think this should be changed.--GZWDer (talk) 14:28, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
I guess he meant "propose", not "proposed". --Stryn (talk) 14:29, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
I think that early closure can perfectly be covered under IAR. There was no point to continue that vote knowing beforehand that it won't succeed. It won't return any benefit to Meta nor the candidate to do so. I've also closed this user RfA earlier for the same reasons, and did so in good faith. —MarcoAurelio 16:51, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Closing any that vote knowing beforehand that it won't succeed is just Snowball clause, which is prohibited by Meta:Snowball. Perhaps Meta:Snowball needs to be updated.--GZWDer (talk) 17:04, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
If you look at the justification for snowball, it is more to prevent obviously successful discussions from being closed early than the other way around. Early users here on Meta-Wiki were concerned with things being pushed through without proper comment; it is always acceptable IMO to close requests that will obviously fail early (though not prematurely, if that makes sense) for the sake of everyone. I think IAR is a good thing here, though it could be explicitly updated in the Meta policy. Ajraddatz (talk) 17:20, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
+1 --Rschen7754 18:12, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
The snowball clause in enwiki works like this. It is only used by requests that will obviously fail early, but not obviously successful discussions. This is why I think Meta:Snowball should be rewritten - the snowball in Meta should be worked like in enwiki, not "different from enwiki" as Meta:Snowball says.--GZWDer (talk) 19:54, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
Yes, it was in some sense application of IAR on my part. The user clearly misunderstood the scope of the global sysop usergroup. They, in fact, applied for a position of "a global administrator" that does not exist. So, it could be theoretically rejected without any discussion whatsoever. Ruslik (talk) 20:16, 12 July 2016 (UTC)
I think we all agree that Ruslik0's actions were fine, so there's no need to continue with this discussion in here but rather on Meta:Babel or other more suitable place to discuss the amendment of the policy should the community wishes to do so. However IAR is also policy as well. —MarcoAurelio 11:04, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
I have re-read relevant policies including Meta:Snowball and Global sysops. I actually do not think the former (a local policy) applies to global user rights assignments by stewards. They are governed only by the respective global policies like the later, which says "The request will be approved by a steward if there is a consensus for the user to become a global sysop after a period of discussion of no less than two weeks." This does not prevent early closures of obviously unsuccessful requests. Meta:Snowball applies only to local discussions on meta or to cross-wiki requests for comments. Both are outside the steward's remit. The requests for global userrights can, in fact, be granted or rejected on timescales much shorter than two weeks - often only a few days. Ruslik (talk) 17:40, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
The policy at GS requires a "period of discussion of no less than two weeks", as you quoted. It makes no sense to claim that they should be shorter because of that. --MF-W 18:30, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
It requires it literally only in case of promotion but not rejection. Ruslik (talk) 20:04, 15 July 2016 (UTC)

Croatian Wikipedia controversy of 2013[edit]

Hi there. hr.wikipedia has had egregious issues with basic processes as described at Requests for comment/2013 issues on Croatian Wikipedia, which escalated into a highly publicized national embarrassment. I haven't been involved since that scandal had faded, and have no idea what happened afterwards. How has the situation been resolved, have the stewards observed an improvement? TIA. --Joy (talk) 21:44, 17 July 2016 (UTC)