Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2021/Real Time Preview for Wikitext

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Project Update: Initial Design Feedback[edit]

Pings to the voters

@Czar, Pelagic, Ubzerver, and TheDJ:

@Owleksandra, Imetsia, GeorgHH, MarioSuperstar77, N.Longo, Dr747, Thgoiter, DerFussi, IagoQnsi, Sabas88, Kisnaak, Jcb cummings, Jlhwung, شاديشادي, Nw520, Jules78120, Wowzers122, YFdyh000, Don-vip, Mihir Narayanan, 5225C, Hanif Al Husaini, Eric0892, BugWarp, Sophivorus, Lollipoplollipoplollipop, Yeenosaurus, Ezlev, Hickory14, Xinbenlv, Opalzukor, Michal0803, OrCer, Lion-hearted85, AntEgoSum, Kpjas, Magol, Sohom data, Richard Stephens, MilkyDefer, Steven Sun, Kaybeesquared, Mannivu, Putnik, DKEdwards, Browk2512, Nehaoua, Minorax, David Wadie Fisher-Freberg, and Jh15s:

@DarwIn, AmandaNP, יונה בנדלאק, Szczot3k, Nonahg, Omnilaika02, Ostrzyciel, Jooja, Srđan, Mhare, Arielllaura, Hellknowz, RSLitman, Some1, Bilorv, ערןערן, BoldLuis, AndyAndyAndyAlbert, StringRay, Jkmartindale, Szalax, Ahecht, Tionran, Remagoxer, Meiræ, Vince789, DGG, Liuyun97, Francois-Pier, Cybularny, Mahedi181, Tom Ja, Arash.z, Blaspie55, Mike Linksvayer, TheLatentOne, LM150, Emperork, Kew Gardens 613, TeKaBe, Edgars2007, 4nn1l2, Kaviraf, Kimsey0, SMcCandlish, EDG 543, SeGiba, Iketsi, SebastianHelm, and G.prof:

@Temp3600, Kocgs, Golmore, VKG1985, Sänger, Patsagorn Y., Nux, Tratser, 郑洲扬, Mike Krüger, Malvinero10, Tyseria, Cgl02, Khairul hazim, EEMIV, Thibaut120094, Nadzik, SuperHamster, and Baidax:

Hey all, thanks for your comments on the #4 Wish of the 2021 Community Wishlist Survey! The Community Tech has started work on this wish. We wanted to make you aware of this because we'd love to hear your input. Thanks for being such proactive members of the wishlist. NRodriguez (WMF) (talk) 22:37, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Link to the #4 Wish content: Real Time Preview for Wikitext. --BoldLuis (talk) 09:54, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Just to make sure: does this only apply to the older (2010) wikitext editor, or will this also be added to the 2017 one? Remagoxer (talk) 20:49, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Hello there and thanks for your question! This applies to the (2010) Wikitext editor but does not apply to the 2017 Visual Editor wikitext mode. That editor allows users to switch views to a preview of the output within the same step, so we excluded it from our scope since it solutions for it in a different way. We cleaned up the language in our project page to make this clear. NRodriguez (WMF) (talk) 18:22, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@NRodriguez (WMF): Will this be working for Monobook, too?--- Darwin Ahoy! 20:59, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Yes indeed! It will be working for Monobook. Thanks for your question. NRodriguez (WMF) (talk) 18:22, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Looking forward to this. I've really been enjoying the live preview in the new DiscussionTools beta feature. That said, the carat icon is completely unintuitive. It should be accompanied by a text label that says something like "preview" (or "preview pane", to use the Windows terminology). Also,any plans to make the preview pane resizable? I could see cases where I'd want to quickly drag the divider to view either the source or the preview wider. Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 21:29, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I as well like the instant preview, that I enjoy just now. I can instantly see, whether I link correct and so forth. Perhaps it should be restricted to editing a single section, in huge articles it will be probably be quite difficult a) to see the change, if it's far off the screen and b) to render this big page on the fly. Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 04:14, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Sänger we are investigating how complex it will be to load large pages, it is something the engineers are actively thinking about and figuring out how to optimize. Thanks for flagging the concern about limiting to a single section as it helps us think of ideas of how to solve the performance issues.
@Ahecht @Sabas88 thanks for these notes! It's really helpful to hear feedback on our proposed designs in the talk page. We are working on testing new button placements so that it is more explicit what the button does. We are thinking of placing it in the toolbar with the word "Preview" explicitly written out, and an option to let folks pick vertical OR horizontal if they are on a desktop that is wide neough. We will ping you when we post the new designs. We also plan on testing them with users to make sure they're intuitive
As for whether or not the pane can be resizeable, we are investigating how technically complex it would be to allow this. We'll keep you updated, for now it is not in scope since we've run into difficulty of a similar attempt at doing this for the Wikisource proofread page in the past.
Thanks and keep the feedback coming! NRodriguez (WMF) (talk) 18:32, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@NRodriguez (WMF): Hi, will it be usable for all languages?--Cgl02 (talk) 05:26, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Correct, this feature would be available for any project to leverage so long as contributors are using a non-VE version of a wikitext editor. Thanks for your question! NRodriguez (WMF) (talk) 18:24, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What about putting the "activation button" in the wikiEditor-ui-toolbar, perhaps all on the right? The decision on where to put the preview (left or bottom) is automatically taken considering the aspect ratio of the display. --Sabas88 (talk) 07:58, 1 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I generally agree with all of the above. Using the extant menu system makes the best sense, and while half or more users are using mobile devices some of the time, most focused editing is done on desktops and laptops, and ultrawide monitors are much more affordable today (and desirable with virtually universal gaming support now) than they were even two years ago. Layout flexibility is a Good Thing.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  08:46, 3 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Changing the text. Imagine I change an article and I see how it is like in real time. Later, I make new changes. How to see how this changes (i.e. add some words to the text or links) in real time?. Do I have to press the Preview Changes button?. Can I see it in real time, without pressing a button??- BoldLuis (talk) 10:05, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
"In real time" means, you'll see asap, as you type, what's that is doing in the text. Same as now with this new discussion tool, where I can see beneath it, how the text will look like, and whether this is a red link or that a blue one. Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 11:30, 8 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

September 14: Second Round of Design Feedback[edit]

@SMcCandlish @Sabas88 @DarwIn @Sänger @Achect Hello all! We have posted some new designs and questions as a Status Update to add the button to the toolbar and make it more intuitive as you pointed out. We'd love to hear your input, and thanks so much for your continued feedback!. NRodriguez (WMF) (talk) 18:23, 14 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I like it this new design! --Sabas88 (talk) 10:22, 15 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for delay. To answer the posed questions:
"Does the new button placement seem more intuitive to the workflows in the toolbar?" Yes, though it should be called "Live preview" or something, so it's not confused with "Show preview" at the bottom.
"Does the current proposed layout feel like there is enough space to view both the wikitext and the output?" The version that inlines the preview into the editing window ... kind of have to say no. However, it might be convenient enough for spot-checking things. I vastly prefer the "fly-out" options. Regarding those, I think both views should be available when viewing the desktop version of the site. Just have both a right-arrow and down-arrow button. I would absolutely prefer the horizontal fly-out when I'm on my Windows PC with its ultra-wide monitor, but would use the vertical "fly-down" when on my Mac, or if using a tablet or other mobile device (and not using the mobile version of the site – I assume this entire feature set won't be available in the mobile version).  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  19:25, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Talk to Us Hours: Video call with Community Tech happening tomorrow[edit]

@SMcCandlish @Sabas88 @DarwIn @Sänger @BoldLuis @Remagoxer @Ahecht We will be hosting a video call tomorrow where all are welcome to come and give feedback on our latest designs in real time. We'd love to have you all attend if you have a chance to come by! Thanks for giving feedback in this talk page, check out the agenda for tomorrow here Community Wishlist Survey/Updates/Talk to Us NRodriguez (WMF) (talk) 18:19, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dunno whether I could make it or not, depends on my workload tomorrow. Is it better for me to say yes first and not show up, or could I join spontaneously if I could? Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 18:35, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I think I can make this.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  19:29, 26 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Data Investigations[edit]

Hi! Thanks for your work on this. I'm interested in the questions asked in the project's Data Investigations section—assuming they're about existing practice, did the team find sharable answers to those? (Also, as a heads up, it doesn't look like I received the ping from last August in my Meta notifications so others might not know about this page either.) czar 19:15, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]