The following request for comments
is closed. Proposed outcome implemented as part of a broader case. – Ajraddatz (talk) 02:51, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
Closure proposed. Done removal of all local sysops and bureaucrats.
Possible Homophobia on Pashto Wikipedia
- This discussion was started at Stewards' noticeboard and has been moved to a separate discussion. — billinghurst sDrewth 23:07, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
Khangul has deleted articles written on homosexuality such as this:
Being the one of the only five admins he has also blocked user who have tried to talk about such topics without giving any reasons for blocking them. Please help on what I can do to talk about such topics in Pashto wikipedia and how such Admins can be reprimanded. Lewaal101 (talk) 18:53, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
- I have asked the deleting administrator on their psWP user talk page to express their opinion on the deletions of the articles, and whether they were undertaken with the appropriate community discussion. This may be difficult as a language issue, we will have to see. — billinghurst sDrewth 10:14, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you so much, billinghurst Lewaal101 (talk) 19:35, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
- billinghurst has any progress been made ? I am still blocked on it Lewaal101 (talk) 22:20, 5 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Lewaal101: All a steward can do in such a community is to start a conversation. I have no rights in that community say or do anything except as a general user; no authority to block or unblock people. To be unblocked, you should utilise the unblock procedure for that wiki, presumably through your local user talk page requesting an unblock. If your talk page is blocked then expressly ask one or their administrators on their meta user talk page to unblock your access to your talk page to start a local unblock conversation. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:31, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Billinghurst: I am blocked from editing my talk page:
https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AF_%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%86_%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%B1%DB%90_%D8%A7%D8%AA%D8%B1%DB%90:Lewaal101 The thing is I do not know where their meta user talk page is Lewaal101 (talk) 19:34, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Lewaal101: see User talk:Khangul. --Stryn (talk) 20:48, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- Dear @Billinghurst: I have also been blocked by User talk:Khangul for making an article about homosexuality Adjutor102 (talk) 20:54, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Stryn: Thank you so much ! I do not think he will listen to any reason, but I will try.
- @Billinghurst: Despite several warnings and conversation about the issue not to add valgard words and not to promote valgaritiy in Pashto wikipedia, same user with different alias and usernames i.e. Paktyan101, Lewal101, Adjutor102 and Adjutor101 are trying to misuse their abilities of adding articles. Instead of adding or promoting positive content to Pashto wikipedia they have been adding valgard words and use of unproper language. I warned them several times but they will not listen so at the end I had to block all 4 usernames which belong to the same person and now comes up with false claims as they have mentioned above. As previously discussed the matter in Pashto wikipedia, all these users cant prove that their self made word for homosexuality belongs to Pashto language. I myself contacted Prof. Mujawir Ahmad Zyar whom reside in Oxford London and he told me that there is nothing like HAMNOGPALENA (همنوږپالنه) in Pashto language. I challenge the claimer and can carry on discussing the matter (About همنوږپالنه) as long as he likes it. If the claimer can provide some scholarly work or if he can show me the world in any Pashto book, then I am ready to publish the article by myself. If not then its just a joke and waste of time listening to such people whom has no other aim rather than vandalization --Khangul (talk) 21:39, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Billinghurst: The word کوني has also been blocked by him but he has unfortunately failed to bring this to your attention. This word means "gay", "catamite" etc and may be verified from here:
The word همنوږي پالنه as previously mentioned is a neologism by combining the words هم + نوږي + پالنه. It is also used in colloquial Pashto:
Also has he himself pointed out the neologism [minus the word پالنه] has been used in the following book [page 408; page 413 of the website version]:
Also just because homosexuality is considered vulgar by Khangul does not mean it should not be written about in Wikipedia. Khangul has also on Pashto Wikipedia tried to block content on the article Condom and used Arabic words such as "جنسي مقاربت" instead of Pashto "غو" [sex] or "غوول" [to have sex] making it unintelligible for the common Pashto speaker. Lewaal101 (talk) 22:23, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- For the correction of Lewaal101. Read and understand what I write you, don't make false conclusions from what I write but try to understand what I mean. Nobody call a homosexual کوني in Pashto in books or in academic language except used as vulgarly used on the streets. If you call someone کوني it is an abusive word and Pashtuns and Afghans will begin to fight with the abuser. Raverty writes about a term کونه here. Then further he explains that کوني means an eunuch, Which again doesn't mean homosexual or Gay. Now if you think that this is a wrong translation done by Raverty then this source is invalid. Your second reference is (http://www.qamosona.com/j/) Which I don't find the word کوني there. Your third reference is (http://thepashto.com/) a website made by Muqsit Khan a Pashto enthusiast who is an Computer Science specialist and doesnt have good knowledge of Pashto since Pashto is not the medium of education. He made the website from goodwill and love for his mother tongue and all the words and terms added to that website is by its users which does not any qualification of Pashto language at an academic level. Thus you can not find (همنوږپالنه) any other places other than this website and some internet forums that discusses this term. All those websites included the Facebook link is not a valid source for Pashto language because they don't refer to any Pashto book that has been using or has ever used that term. Its a self coined word, not verified by the academy of science of Afghanistan or any other wellknown Pashto linguists. The book Neologisms, by Prof. Zyar does not have any term (همنوږپالنه) which is again a self-made false claim by users Lewaal101, Paktyan101, Adjutor101 and Adjutor102. These are usernames used by one person to try to show that its a claim of multiple persons. Where the word condom is concerned, I added an article in Pashto wikipedia and in that article the expression (جنسي مقاربت) means sexual intercourse. While the term (غوول) means fucking, here again I want to say that the last mentioned word is a vulgar word used only when abusing someone. Even in English articles nobody writes that When a man is fucking another man its an act of homosexuality, but rather in language and words words one can write When a man is having sexual intercourse with another man this act is of homosexuality and the doers of this act is known as Gay. Since everything is clear I don't know why Lewaal101 doesn't get it.--Khangul (talk) 23:00, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Billinghurst: @Khangul: @Stryn:
Khangul stated "our second reference is (http://www.qamosona.com/j/) Which I don't find the word کوني there". Here is a screen shot of the website:
Either Khangul intentionally didn't mention the word "catamite" or does not understand the term. Here is a Screenshot of Raverty's dictionary:
Lewaal101 (talk) 23:10, 6 March 2015 (UTC)
- What I try to explain and you don't understand or maybe you don't want to understand is that the word you mention (کوني) is not a decent word used in academic works. It is a vulgar word and people don't simply use it in scholarly discussions. This is a simple matter and you don't understand it. Pashto is my native language I got my education in this language. Lewaal101 you are not a native Pashto speaker and the use of these words is difficult for you to understand. You may have learned Pashto and probably it is your second language but you don't have the understanding that Pashtuns only use this word in time of rage and anger when they wanna abuse someone. This is not a decent language to add in Pashto wikipedia. If you are interested I will ask the opinion of other Pashto wikipedians and find out more through the consensus of the community. --Khangul (talk) 00:09, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
- This is an issue of local policy. On the English wikipedia, "vulgar" would not be a reason for disallowing an article, see w:Motherfucker, w:Ass kisser and w:Sand nigger (redirects), w:Nigger, w:Faggot (as a term for a gay man). See also w:Leck mich im Arsch. I recommend that local policy on "decent language" be made clear. Given sources shown, such as an 1867 dictionary, which directly contradicts the claim of "not used in academic works," I would suggest that, *at least*, redirects be allowed. (Non-academics may have odd ideas about what academics discuss, but, for centuries, things have been discussed academically that would not be brought up in polite company.) As well, words that are highly offensive in one context may not be offensive at all in another. I was a Muslim prison chaplain, and most of the prisoners I was serving were of African descent, "black." Among themselves, some of them used the word "nigger" to mean a stupid black. If I had used the word -- at all -- it would have been extremely offensive. Gay people may call each other "queer" or "faggots," but if I called them that, again, offensive. Those were "fighting words" when I was young.
- I cannot assess a content or behavioral dispute in Pashto. However, above, Khangul accuses Paktyan101, Lewaal101, Adjutor102 and Adjutor101 of being the same user. I see that the names look similar, but stewards can check that. Here is the history of the original steward's noticeboard discussion: . Lewall101 and Adjutor102 both commented. If they are the same user, the user has been disruptive here, and should be warned or blocked. If not, then Khangul has been uncivil here, and should be warned. To the complaining user(s), you must resolve the dispute among the local community. That can take patience and compromise. My long-term suggestion would be to start by avoiding the dispute, and instead work on building the project with what you can do, instead of insisting on a Favorite Topic. Support others in doing this, and, in the end, they will support you when it's needed. --Abd (talk) 18:58, 7 March 2015 (UTC)
- The problem are کوني should only used for article like "faggot" not actually using it for en:Eunuch, @Abd:. Would you agree if article like "faggot" redirected to "eunuch" ? I don't think so.--AldNonymousBicara? 00:35, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- کوني , like many words, has more than one meaning.
- w:faggot is a disambiguation page. "Eunuch" is not one of the meanings, so, of course, I would not agree, if my opinion mattered. The Pashto word, from the dictionary cited, almost 150 years ago, means "A catamite" and "a eunuch." If both usages are reasonably common, disambig be used, but there would be an article or a redirect for any commonly used word. There is w:Catamite and w:Eunuch, which have very different meanings in English. Catamite is not a synonym for "homosexual." (Same as w:Pederast). Articles would use "polite" or "academic" speech to describe a thing. Common terms would redirect to the article covering the actual meaning. Notice that the disambiguation for w:faggot goes to an actual article, w:Faggot (slang). So if there are sources, yes, there could be an article on کوني . Even if it is a very impolite term. One might notice that the article on the word "faggot" does not refer to male homosexuals as "faggots." That would be improper speech!
- So, what has not been addressed is how homosexuality is handled on psWP. Is it being claimed that "homosexuality" does not exist in Pashto? I'd hope not!
- Further, the Wikipedia concept is to represent "the sum of all knowledge." For practical reasons, "sum" does not mean everything, but rather a summary, and for other very practical reasons, it is required that there be "reliable sources." That does not mean only academic sources. It would include media sources, anything independently published where there is some kind of supervision and responsibility. And these are details normally worked out by a community seeking consensus.
- There are a number of issues here. When a user runs into what seems to be unfair administration, they may attempt to create new accounts. While that cannot be permitted, it also can simply be a sign of a problem that the community has not worked out. It can also happen that users invite their friends to edit. Is that a good thing or not? I recommend that Khangul work with these users to develop an agreement. Involve the community in finding a way to realize the full goals of the project, while also supporting ideals of avoiding vulgarity, for example. However, some vulgarity is important, that is why I gave the example of the extremely vulgar Mozart composition. Academics handle that routinely.
- Billinghurst, below, refers to "using tools to win a dispute," which is very much to be avoided. Administrators who become personally involved in a position, their own idea of what the project should be like, often get into trouble, and can badly damage a project. Ideally, administrators are servants of the community, not directors or masters. Above, Khangul suggests asking the opinions of other Pastho users "if you are interested." So .... he's already using deletion on his own initiative and he is blocking users on his own initiative, and arguing forcefully that they are wrong, but he has not already consulted the community. That's involved. Bad idea. Billinghurst is right. --Abd (talk) 02:31, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- @Abd: You are correct, that's what I am trying to say actually.--AldNonymousBicara? 06:35, 9 March 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Judging by the commentary that I am getting from a few places, and including email, it seems to me that the community should be looking at reviewing its overall practices. Use of tools to win a dispute is not ideal and w:ps:Special:log/block has aspects of that, and then leads to the obvious sockpuppets. I do not understand why so many articles are protected. The wiki has a sense of paternalism and control, and that is antithesis to the Wikimedia approach of openness. The purpose of the Wikipedias is to encourage the knowledge of humankind, and to build a community that can do that. From my inexpert look at that wiki I am not seeing that. I truly would like to see psWP review its practices. I would like to see psWP use the power of community discussion and consensus more than is apparent at the moment I would like to see the use of logic and respect drive how the wiki is developed (by all the users, not just the administrators). That is when I will say that this wiki will have more success.
Now it may be my zero knowledge of Pashto, but I couldn't find where administrator nominations were made and community support decided. If someone is able to point me to that section of psWP, I would be most obliged. — billinghurst sDrewth 01:01, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- Is it possible if I get unblocked Lewaal101 (talk) 04:41, 8 March 2015 (UTC)
- It is possible, but is unlikely to be decided here. I will advise you on User talk:Lewaal101. --Abd (talk) 18:33, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
Immature Pashto Wikipedia Admin
Dear stewards, the Admin Khangul blocked me forever because of an argument I had with him. He first stated that I was a liar for claiming I am a PHD in Pashto. Possibly because I have been removing Arabic/Persian loanwords and adding Soocha [Pure] Pashto or possibly because I have been making pages on religious topics other than Islam, in truth I do not know = for reference click. In reply to his comment I told him he could verify this from the Pashto Academy and I became a little rude by calling him a smart ass = reference. So I come to you asking:
- Please unblock me
- I do not know how elections are held to make Pashto Admins; therefore as you can see normal Pashto Wikipedians are at the mercy of people like Khangul who treat Pashto Wikipedia as if it was there father's property. I want to see Khangul reprimanded for this cruelty.
Thank you PashtoLover (talk) 18:49, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
- This appears to be a local matter and the block is within the discretion of the local administrator to make. You appear to have been warned before the block and at least one other member of the community supported it. There are no obvious grounds to overturn the block. On your other question, ps.wiki has a local bureaucrat who is responsible for determining if the community supports adding new administrators. It was they who added the admin right for Khangul. QuiteUnusual (talk) 09:58, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- @QuiteUnusual: The RFC of same Admin that noted here Requests for comment/Possible Homophobia on Pashto Wikipedia.--AldNonymousBicara? 10:42, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks... With the RFC in progress there's no grounds for progressing this particular request here. QuiteUnusual (talk) 11:02, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
- This admin blocked me only when I replied back to him and also a permanent block. There was no dispute over a particular article but his ego was hurt. I am sure there can be something that can be done as even if it is a "local matter" it is nonetheless an abuse of Wikipedia policy and an abuse of Admin position PashtoLover (talk) 14:04, 8 April 2015 (UTC)
Censorship in Pashto Wikipedia
Was moved from Stewards' noticeboard (prior to Special:PermanentLink/11833781)
I do not know anything about this dispute. But Pashto wikipedia admins are like the Taliban they do not allow "explicit" articles or media on Wikipedia: My article on Masturbation has been nominated for deletion: https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D9%88%D9%BC%DA%A9_%D9%88%D9%87%D9%84 And have been advised not to write on such articles: https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AF_%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%86_%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%B1%DB%90_%D8%A7%D8%AA%D8%B1%DB%90:Seendgay Also words like are censored the way Taliban did:
- غو [sex]
- موټک وهل [to masturbate]
- کوس [vagina]
- غيڼ [penis]
- غوول [to have sexual intercourse]
- کونه [ass]
- کوني [gay]
see This a restriction on my freedom of expression !
Also I have actually noticed Usman using unpure Pashto with Arabic and Farsi words instead of Pure Pashto.
Seendgay (talk) 19:35, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- NICE MOVE MR. SEENDGAY, YOU COME IN PASHTO WIKIPEDIA, BEFORE YOU WRITE AN ARTICLE OF YOUR CHOICE YOU ASK FOR IT YOURSELF, THEN YOU ARE TOLD IN THE TALK PAGE TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE SUBJECT OF YOUR CHOICE IN A SCHOLARLY WAY. YOU DELIBERATELY CHOOSE TO WRITE THIS BEFORE YOU WRITE YOUR ARTICLE "Do I have permission to make this page Seendgay (خبرې اترې) 07:58, 17 اپرېل 2015 (UTC)Can I post thumnails used in English Wikipedia and descirbe Masturbation Techniques Seendgay (خبرې اترې) 17:18, 17 اپرېل 2015". THEN I ANSWER YOU IN PASHTO IN YOUR TALK PAGE YOU CAN WRITE ABOUT THE TOPIC OF YOUR CHOICE IF IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WHOLE WORLD FOR YOU, BUT REMEMBER TO WRITE ABOUT THE SUBJECT OF YOUR CHOICE IN A SCHOLARLY MANNERS, ITS BEST TO TRANSLATE FROM ENGLISH WIKI AND DISCUSS THE MATTER IN A DECENT MANNERS, DESCRIBE THE NATURE OF HUMANS AND ALSO THE PROS AND CONS OF MASTERBATION. YOU ARE SO SMART AND YOU KNOW THAT AMONG MUSLIMS AND SPECIALLY AMONG PASHTU SPEAKERS THESE ISSUES ARE VERY CONTROVERSIAL BUT YOU STILL HAVE PERMISSION AND FREEDOM TO EXPRESS IT AND AT THE SAME TIME YOU COME UP WITH COMPLAINS THAT NO BODY IS LETTING YOU TO TALK ABOUT IT BECAUSE ITS HOW TALIBANS DID. I AM SURPRISED TO YOUR LOGIC? AND I AM SURPRISED BY THE TRICKS AND CONSPIRACIES THAT IS GOING ON. A BUNCH OF LOOSER LIKE SEENDGAY, USMAN KHAN AND USMAN MANSOOR ANSARI ARE TRYING TO DO CAMPAIGN AGAINST PASHTO WIKI. TRY EVEN HARDER. WHAT WILL YOU GAIN WITH ALL THESE NEGATIVE PROPAGANDA. I DONT UNDERSTAND THAT YOU ARE SO MUCH INTERESTED IN SEX AND SEXUALITY BUT YOU CANT EVEN PRODUCE A SCHOLARLY WORK ON IT. YOU COME UP WITH A SENTENCE THAT IS MUCH MORE VALGARD AND AN OFFENSIVE ISSUE AMONG MANY PASHTUN MEN AND WOMEN. YOU ARE LOOKING FOR DEFAMATION OF THE PASHTO WIKIPEDIA IN WHICH YOU WILL NOT SUCCEED.--Khangul (talk) 20:49, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
- This is not a move brother/sister. I am sincerioulsy [to borrow a phrase from Stephen Amell] concerned.
Yes I asked your permission because in the Past you have penalised people for using "controversial" language:
I could have written the full article but as you pointed out I asked for permission to proceed further [17:18, at 17th April 2015]: https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%B1%DB%90_%D8%A7%D8%AA%D8%B1%DB%90:%D9%85%D9%88%D9%BC%DA%A9_%D9%88%D9%87%D9%84 I want to post these images and write about it: The way it has been done in English Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation#Techniques
"Explicit" Content like this has also been shared in another "Muslim" wikipedia: https://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AE%D9%88%D8%AF%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%B6%D8%A7%DB%8C%DB%8C Seendgay (talk) 06:49, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
A steward has proposed removal of all admin rights on ps.wikipedia. It is clear that something is awry there; there has been wheel-warring and one admin blocked another indef. Removal of rights like this is very unusual. However, checkuser data showed that the administrator who is the target of most complaints, and the single bureaucrat, are related accounts, using the same connectivity and equipment. That could be, for example, the same public internet terminal, or a family computer and access, and it is not necessarily misbehavior, but could be. If all rights are removed, there should then be an election, first, of a single administrator, most widely-trusted to restore community collaboration, and because there may have been a bias introduced by extensive blocking, that election should take place here, though being announced on ps.wikipedia. As the global community, through global sysops and stewards, and to protect the Pashto project, we will need the support of Pashto speakers; that should be sought on ps.wikipedia and, as well, on the Urdu and Farsi projects, where there may be many Pashto-speaking users. A Pashto admin request page should be established here, for the time being, with notice on ps.wiki.
All sides have been uncivil. Abusive administration often creates uncivil and disruptive response, and "abusive administration" may occur in all good faith, where the administrator has strong opinions and is not well-guided by the community. So I highly recommend that all parties back down, start assuming good faith (even if that seems difficult), and work together for common welfare. Trust the community, and give it time to reflect and consider. Civility is essential to consensus formation, so the community can and should self-regulate to preserve civility, with warnings and, when needed, short-blocks, not indef blocks or bans, just what is needed to restore order. Incivility may simply indicate passion, which is not bad, it merely needs to be harnessed and guided. (Gross incivility, oft-repeated, would lead to escalating blocks, if consensus permits.)
Any user may warn for incivility, and should do so in a civil and respectful manner, on the allegedly uncivil user's talk page. If incivility continues, frequently repeated warning and argument with a user is itself harmful. Instead, a request for administrative confirmation of the warning and/or short block should be made, on ps.wiki when local process is working again, or on the special page set up here.
It is "emergency" that can lead to disruption, on all sides. Administrators, especially, should be wary of declaring an emergency, but can and should if, say, content remaining visible could cause severe harm. It's a wiki, errors can be fixed, with patience. Emergency actions, if at all controversial, or possibly controversial, should always be promptly and actively presented to the community for review.
"Censorship" is not an emergency; however, a pattern of censorship based on personal opinion is an issue to be addressed, patiently. --Abd (talk) 16:57, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Comment by عثمان منصور انصاري and UsmanKhan
- remove the virus, not to kill the humanity
hi to all. in pashto wikipedia, we have one bureaucrat (ANB),4 admins, (ANB), Khan gul, waheedullah kaleem, me (Usman Mansoor Ansari). all other admins including bureaucrat (ANB) are so responsible, respectful, keen to develop ps wiki, helping users in while facing technical or other problems.
kindly i request here not to remove any admin from ps wiki nor the only one bureaucrat (ANB) unless Khangul. plz remove him from adminship and release the pashto wiki from his dictatorship.
as a responsible admin of pashto wiki, this khangul blocked my IP forever which is against all wiki norms. below is my request i have sent for some stewards: regards
hi Vituzzu, billinguart and others !
as an admin my IP is blocked by an irresponsible admin Mr Khangul just for the reason i have allowed and unblocked a user who is hard working, keen to develop, contribute in pashto wiki. see this for his countributions: Usman khan's contributions
plz have a look to his work. if you think that he (Usmankhan) deserved to be blocked by Khangul. and for restoring (Usmankhan) was that against the rule of wiki, or i have done something wrong for which Khangul (an admin like me) blocked me from wiki and deleted my pages where i have requested for bureaucrat.
plz take this matter serious and solve the prob which khangul create day by day to new users, and now for admins as well.
you will note that pashto wiki contribution is zero now a day due to khangul's behaviors with users.
note: my nomination page is also deleted by him. khangul deleted my nomination page for bureaucratship. its against wiki norms and laws.
--عثمان منصور انصاري (talk) 09:31, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- First deleting legit pages and blocking innocent users hence this happen Requests for comment/Possible Homophobia on Pashto Wikipedia and now deleting 'crat nom pages and blocking an admin? This one is a serious abuse by Khangul.--AldNonymousBicara? 09:44, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
Usman Mansoor is one of the best Admin of Pashto Wikipedia,Now Khangul has blocked him. as I said before that Khangul is always harrasing and discouraging other user, Whenever we comment against Khangul's misbehavior he always delete the Entire page on which we write against him. And whenever any other user Nominate his name for Adminship khangul also delete the others nomination pages. If Khangul leave people to work, We will have more than 50K pages on Pashto Wikipedia but unfortunately he always delete others contribution. So plz block Khangul and his sock puppets and Also unblock Usman Mansoor who is a good Administrator and guider.--UsmanKhann (talk) 10:54, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- For the community to note that users عثمان منصور انصاري and UsmanKhan show as being aligned accounts, so the commentary should be taken as a block, not necessarily independently. To the comment, stewards cannot play favourites with admins, and if the community has a level of dysfunction and is unable to resolve the matters by consensus the previous example was to remove all advanced rights holders for a period of time and restart through community consensus process. That is why the proposal has been framed in that way. — billinghurst sDrewth 11:28, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- mr khangul! first of all PLZ DO NOT INTERFERE AND CHANGE MY COMMENTS, NOR ADD YOUR COMMENTS BETWEEN MY COMMENTS. (the proof is in check users talkpage), and in ps wiki as well as in this talkpage too.
if pashto wiki is here in-front of you. its not all ur struggles, but u have made something for which thanks, most of your 10000 contribution is to translate interface, edit someones users user-page, talk-page, delete others work you don't like. even sometime you edit others comments in some community portals and discussions even if u found it against ur ego, you Defiantly delete others entire comments, even if its on their own talkpake or userpage.
thanks god we have, ANB (First as an adim, now as bureaucrat). he is the one who brought the wiki to exist, helped us, guided us, but unfortunately now a days he is out of coverage area!? due to his personal probs!
- most of my contributions are my written & translated articles from en, ar, ur, fa and other wiki and websites. references are available.
- secondly: you dont think that if i could only read & write abut religious & Philosophical articles. i have my own contribution in history, botany, science, logic, biology, psychology, criminology, criminalistics etc.
- i have no need to publish someones article without his/him permission. several time i have responded you that: anything i post in wiki is with the permission of their authors, translator etc. as a social worker i have a strong roots in my society. books writers, translators are met every day, and i discuss with them abut pashto wiki, its regulation , its benefits and after all, informed them if i post an article of them, it wont be their anymore, it will be published, edited by others etc. mostly ppl agreed and handed me over their work's softcopy. themember of afghan community where i live in, love to publish their articles in internet. the are so keen to work volunteerly for their mother-tongue (Pashto Language). and you khangul khan, plz clear your mind from this stuff that i will do something against their permissions.
(im able to bring hard-copy of their permission letter alongside their signature if needed here be stewards. :)
- the last example is Mr Zahid Jalaly. before i have published his few articles with his permission, but now i have invited him to pashto wiki. now he is an active user, have a webblog, and day by day importing his articles from his weblog to pashto wiki. some of the articles you deleted were belongs to this person. you can find the same article in his weblog too.
- another user: zakria.rahimi, an active user brought to wiki by me. he is active in sociology, management, criminology, law etc. at the first i have copied articles from his webblog, with his direct permission, after that, personally i have created an account for him. now this zakria.rahimi is active and posting by himself at wiki.
- waheedullah kaleem: the best admin of pashto wiki was brought to wiki by me. at fist stage i have sent him some en articles to translate into pashto. he started. second round he was in ps.wiki... but unfortunately he is off from wiki too maybe due to misbehave of some one in ps wiki.......
best regards --عثمان منصور انصاري (talk) 11:38, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
- My Proposal: All these claims and arguments by USMAN MANSOOR ANSARI (عثمان منصور انصاري) and USMAN KHAN are baseless. Without any proof. In order to understand and justify all these claims one have to understand Pashto language, the character of Afghan people. It is beyond the understandings of non-native Pashtuns. To be honest USMAN KHAN & USMAN MANSOOR ANSARI hate me for my determination and decisive actions. Whenever they write anything and I have guided they simply dont like it. I can discuss about what happened as long as you guys want it. The same they will not get tired of arguments and come up with false arguments that is baseless. What I can suggest is that I and USMAN MANSOOR ANSARI both hand over the admin rights. We both get simple user rights then we both stand up for election and thus get the admin rights back. Let the community decide who is going to become an ADMIN and thus the only bureaucrat of Pashto wikipedia ANBI will appoint the rights. Until then USMAN KHAN should remain blocked because of his vandalism background. I think he should only get unblocked when he agrees to listen to the guidance whenever he gets from others. And he should not falsify the language by writing wrong grammar, spelling or other syntax. Third solution is to let bureaucrat ask the community to make guidelines and policies that can apply only for Pashto wikipedia and according to that guidelines and policies a user be blocked or unblocked.--Khangul (talk) 15:35, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
we trust the billinghursts one!
we disagree with khangul and cant trust him anymore.
we are agree only with the proposal of Billinghurst.
Respect to all
عثمان منصور انصاري (talk) 22:22, 14 April 2015 (UTC)
I also agree with the proposal of Billinghurst, epecially the following points:
- remove all advanced rightsholders at Pashto Wikipedia due to sockpuppetry and community disputes.
- Removal of all administrators,etc
- No appointments of administrators for six months (but here I think it should maximum 2 or 3 months)
- Future appointments are considered for review by checkuser due to use of socks on the community.
--UsmanKhann (talk) 00:34, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- Comment@Khangul: To this point of time there has been
- no explanation for all the accounts and the relationship between the accounts that align with you and the bureaucrat ANBI to whom you refer. This relationship needs to be explained.
- no response to my previous request to pointers to the administrator selection process by the community, so there is no clarity that due process is followed
- blocking a fellow administrator is not the means to progress a matter and if you do follow such a drastic measure then you take it to the community for discussion; all these matters are community matters and are decided by the community, not singularly the point of view of one administrator.
- the community has not been able to resolve matters previously, and the administrators have not been able to get community consensus to this point of time, nor even step through these matters of governance. Why do you think that it will be different this time?
- — billinghurst sDrewth 03:10, 15 April 2015 (UTC)
- Comment@Billinghurst: To be honest unlike other Wikis, Pashto Wikipedia did not have any community for many reasons. One of the most common reason is that internet was not that common in use in Afghanistan as now. So people are beginning to get familiar with Wikipedia via Google and other social media websites. Now most of the people who surf on Pashto wiki they use mobile phones. So We have never been able to build up a community. Once there was such a move among the Afghan students who are settled abroad in European countries. But due to other responsibilities and personal problems the community did not sustain for very long. The other problem is the voting system, from the past experience if I send a message to all users to come and vote around 30 or 40 persons will respond to the request. While in Pashto wiki there is over 10000 users registered. Mostly users come and register themselves but then leave after a while due to many reasons of their own. The most active users will you find in wiki statistics. There are a few users who had committed themselves for Pashto wikipedia. As mentioned previously ANBI, Waheedullah Kaleem (another admin) lived in Romania previously and moved back to Kabul (doesn't have access to internet at home), Darius, Usman Mansoor Ansari (عثمان منصور انصاري) (returned after many years of inactivity) and me Khangul, Asif, Watanwal, Afghanwrites. In your comments you have asked about explanation for relationship between me and the bureaucrat ANBI and the rest of the accounts. I will simply explain it this way, pretend you have one computer at your home and there are many users for it, your mom, your dad, your brother, your cousin and any other relative who comes to your home, they all use your computer to log in to Wikipedia and make up usernames for themselves and thus want to contribute to wiki. What I don't understand is why it should be illegal and out of law for them to use their own user accounts and log in from one computer and actively contribute to Wikipedia. And each persons will have their number of edits to be registered under their username. You may not know about how Pashto Wikipedia was set up, who were the key campaigners for building up the over 13000 pages that exists now. For your information its only the work of few active users, its not the result of 13000 users not even 500 users. Many years ago admin-ship tools were easily granted to the users. Then there was a time that Admin tools were granted to those who had made 500 articles in Pashto wikipedia. As soon I reached this limit I asked ANBI and then he assigned me for the admin rights. I agree with you Billinghurst that by blocking of an Admin is not a proper mean to progress a matter. But when you warn him/her for his/her parts that causes destructive works in a wiki, and there is no community or no will from that specific admin to discuss the matter with you and reach a common ground. Then there is no choice left. It was the same case with USMAN MANSOOR ANSARI (عثمان منصور انصاري), but now I understand that they (the double USMANS) had already planned some sort of conspiracy, that they will deliberately take provocative actions and I will block their accounts and then they will come here and start their campaign against me to take up my admin tools from me. The way they both have aligned against me is a good proof that can support what I say. There has never been any consensus on this problem in Pashto wiki. Because there is no active community as previously mentioned. I suggest that you take all Stewards either let this matter be solved by a mediator locally or remove the admin rights from both USMAN MANSOOR ANSARI & me (KHANGUL). Afterwards let the bureaucrat ANBI make up new policy and guidelines for new admin rights, blocks, deletions and all those other matter that users can disagree on.--Khangul (talk) 13:43, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- Comment Khangul we have not planned any conspiracy we want the development of Pashto Wikipedia. and let me say that Khangul is absolutely wrong that we have no active community. Remember We have more than 10000 registered users, They are not active because whenever they start working for Pashto wikipedia, Khangul start discouraging them from Khangul and other socks-puppet accounts So we have a large community but Khangul do not let them work for Wikipedia because Khangul want to see only his name in every article's history . I am sure that Afghanwrites,Zarghona and all other accounts belongs to Khangul . And Khangul don't say that many user in your home use same computer, Some days before I asked ANBI do you know Khangul? so he replied "NO, I know him only in Wikipedia" . Many times If some one write a single word wrong Khangul Block him, Khangul should remember that Wikipedia is for everyone who want to contribute. till today Khangul has never discussed any matter with community.And Khangul should also remember that if in Afghanistan there is no access to Internet but in Pakistan , nowadays Internet has rapidly progressed , In Afghanistan there are only 12 million Pashto speakers whereas in Pakistan over 30 million people are speaking Pashto, But unfortunately Pashtun of Pakistan as well as Afghanistan are not able to contribute just because of Khangul and his puppets harassment . (Sorry for weak English)--UsmanKhan (talk) 16:35, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- I would also say that please resolve this issue here because I don't believe that Khangul will reslove it Locally.--UsmanKhan (talk) 16:48, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- Comment@Billinghurst: You can see for yourself how immature arguments USMAN KHAN have. There are 10000 users registered users, and he claims that all of them are Pashto speakers. How many of these 10000 are active? take a look at the statistics page of Pashto Wikipedia. Also go to the block logs of the blocked IPs and Users and then you will find 10000 users blocked by me, what a childish argument. Another thing find 10 out of 10000 users that I have discouraged them and written to their talk page not to contribute in Pashto wikipedia. Where is the proof for all those claims? Usman Khan claims that I dont let them write articles, How? by what means? What is your proof? Where is your proof that you talked to ANBI? Why should we trust you since you already make false claims? What if we fix a time and then tell all the users that you claim to write an article at the same time and date? So your misconception gets cleared? Why do you Mr. USMAN KHAN think that I want every page of Pashto Wikipedia after my name? What benefits do i get out of this? Does your father pay me for this? Another funny thing is that he says: " till today Khangul has never discussed any matter with community" Come on don't lie, I can find many of the talk pages where I have discussed issues with users. You cant just make up things, I can prove it by giving you the links. There is no discussion about the number of Pashtuns in which country. This is not a topic of my discussion. Mr. Usman Khan tries to come up with topics to take the discussion on wrong direction now. What a silly argument that he says Afghans are not contributing to Pashto wikipedia because Khangul blocks them or harass them. Please Mr. USMAN or double USMAN grow up.--Khangul (talk) 20:52, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- Khangul first of all please stop personal attacking by saying "Does your father paying". Here we are discussing the facts. I said there are more than 10000 registered users, among them there might be 10,20 or 50 users who were active users and they wanted to work for Wikipedia, but I have noticed that you are posting such messages on their talk pages which discourage them and then they do not come again to Pashto Wikipedia, If you guide them properly they would come again and again to contribute . I have also noticed that you are deleting others user-pages , example is my userpage which you deleted.You should not delete because everyone can create his/her user page as he/she wish.
- And I gave you examples of countries, because you were telling that in Afghanistan internet is not common in use, So I said that if in Afghanistan internet may not be common in use but here in Pakistan Internet has rapidly progressed and is very common, therefore there is also large number of Pashtuns in Pakistan who want to contribute but just because of your behavior they couldn't do so. And you also delete every page on which we commented to point out your misbehavior. Khangul honestly tell me "Did I not warn you many times to not use multiple puppet accounts?" ,If you need evidence I can give --UsmanKhan (talk) 21:58, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- And I see Administrator عثمان منصور انصاري (who was blocked by Khangul)is still blocked, I request stewards and crats to resolve this issue as soon as possible, because the discussion is going so long --UsmanKhan (talk) 22:30, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- Comment. In fact, there is consensus here; Khangul agrees with the removal of his own rights and those of عثمان منصور انصاري ; the only variation is the removal of others, including the single 'crat.
- See checkuser data. The results would, at best, show a close relationship between Khangul and the 'crat ANBI, i.e, possible "meat puppetry." It's time to clear the deck, and build a collaborative community, cleanly, without these complications. Related accounts should be acknowledged. There is nothing wrong with them, per se, but they can raise doubts if they pretend to be unrelated. Removal under these conditions is not a black mark, and all parties will be encouraged to work together to restore full local control. I do not see it necessary to wait, because there is ongoing disruption and possible continued damage, and there is enough evidence to justify the intervention. Hopefully, there will be substantial support for ps.wiki from global sysops and stewards. Templates can be used by any trusted user to arrange for deletion of spam or vandalism, for example, and a fast-response page may be set up here for requests.
- While this is a Steward's noticeboard, and Billinghurst's goal is steward consensus, I am commenting here in support, for stewards serve the general community, and the general community would ordinarily be opposed to steward intervention like this. As can already be seen, we are not opposed in this case. Billinghurst is to be commended. --Abd (talk) 16:25, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- You don't represent "the general community" as I don't either. We all are part of it. There's an overall consensus in taking this actions so I'll do it within a few hours (I have been waiting for two days waiting for consensus) but nobody is entitled to talk on behalf of anyone except himself. --Vituzzu (talk) 16:43, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Vituzzu, thanks for stating your intention to action this. I do represent the general community and so do you. We all may. If we are wrong, it can be corrected. You did not contradict what I wrote, you merely denied my right to represent the community (and your own). That's worrisome in a steward, because stewards are elected to represent the community in the use of highly intrusive tools. If they only act on their own opinion, something is off. However, this is not the place for a discussion of that. As pointed out, there is consensus on this action. I'm going to say this again: we are all entitled to write, "Consensus is," based on discussion and evidence, and we may also anticipate that as a claim, without proof, based on our own understanding and experience. It's basic wiki. Thanks for understanding that. --Abd (talk) 17:06, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
- Nope, when building consensus nobody can represent anyone except himself. Even as a steward I do not represent anybody but I'm charged with implementing consensus. --Vituzzu (talk) 18:06, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Support for removal of Khangul as Admin
Khangul first wrote: that if the article was based on "in a scholarly" manner it could remain on psWiki. Now when I have done that he wants to delete it and ban me:
He has written:
دا يوه غير علمي ليکنه ده. په دې ليکنه کې اخلاق په پام کې نه دي نيول شوي. که تاسو يې د ړنگولو هيله لرئ نو په انگرېزي ژبه د خبرو اترو په مخ کې delete وليکئ!. Seendgay د دغه مخ جوړونکی دی. دا يو مستعار نوم دی، چې که چېرته د ورانکارئ په تکل راغلی وي او د گڼ شمېر کارنانو لخوا پرې د بنديز لگېدلو غوښتنه وي نو د خبرو اترو په مخ کې دې لس کسان ورته د بنديز وړانديز وکړي، بيا به په Seendgay بنديز پلي شي!
Translation: This is a غير علمي [arabic word: not relatated to 'ilm = knowledge] writing. This writing has not given attention to اخلاق [arabic word: morality]. If you hope to delete this then write "delete" in talk-page. Seendgay is the maker of this. This is a مستعار [arabic word: fictitious] name and ... 10 people are required to ban him by writing in talk-page..
- Noticing the amount of Arabic in his Pashto writing I am also worried how he can judge others for writing Pashto.
- I Support this proposal.Seendgay (talk) 17:57, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- DoneI've implemented Billinghurst's proposal by the following actions:
- (User rights log); 19:59 . . Vituzzu changed group membership for User:عثمان منصور انصاري@pswiki from administrator to (none)
- (User rights log); 19:58 . . Vituzzu changed group membership for User:לערי ריינהארט@pswiki from administrator to (none)
- (User rights log); 19:58 . . Vituzzu changed group membership for User:W.Kaleem@pswiki from administrator to (none)
- (User rights log); 19:57 . . Vituzzu changed group membership for User:Khangul@pswiki from administrator to (none)
- (User rights log); 19:57 . . Vituzzu (talk | contribs | block) changed group membership for User:ANBI@pswiki from bureaucrat and administrator to (none)
- I hope this will help ps.wiki to be rebuild upon stronger basis.
- --Vituzzu (talk) 18:03, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- Thank you Seendgay (talk) 18:26, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Khangul has resorted to Vandalism following changes
@Khangul: is resorting to Vandalism, dear stewards: @Rschen7754: @Billinghurst: @Vituzzu:. Please see: https://ps.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D9%85%D9%88%D9%BC%DA%A9_%D9%88%D9%87%D9%84&action=history Seendgay (talk) 19:32, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- I can understand why that page would be controversial. Maybe the best course would be for you to talk with him, or start a conversation on the talk page about whether it is worth keeping or what changes he would like to see to it in order to keep? Ajraddatz (talk) 19:47, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- Recomended lectures: The Wrong Version and Edit war. I agree that discussion is better than revert warring with each other. Please try to reach a consensus on the talk page or start a RFC to try to get mediation on the issue. Thanks. -- M\A 21:17, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- I have tried but let's see:
https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AF_%DA%A9%D8%A7%D8%B1%D9%86_%D8%AE%D8%A8%D8%B1%DB%90_%D8%A7%D8%AA%D8%B1%DB%90:Khangul#Request_for_Collaboration Seendgay (talk) 05:16, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- He is continuing his Vandalism: https://ps.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D9%88%D9%8A%DA%A9%D9%8A%D9%BE%DB%90%DA%89%D9%8A%D8%A7:%D9%85%D9%88%D9%BC%DA%A9_%D9%88%D9%87%D9%84&action=history Seendgay (talk) 15:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Removal of rights without notification
Mr billinghurst i am wondering why my admin and beuracrate rights were removed without any pre-notification? --ANBI (talk) 09:17, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- Sorry to made new notification to you Billinghurst, let me answer this, Hi @ANBI: it was caused by this Stewards'_noticeboard#Proposal_to_remove_all_advanced_rightsholders_at_Pashto_Wikipedia, you may read the detail there.--AldNonymousBicara? 09:22, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- but that discussion has nothing to do with me. I have been working hard in the translation process of Pashto wikipedia interface & I am also active on translatewiki. I dont understand why I am brought in a discussion that is not related to me. I am also surprised that because of a discussion between some users you guys are imposing ban on all the admins. Thats absolutely unfair. Pashto wiki main page is protected an only users with admin rights can edit that page. Kindly grant me back access to my admin and beuracrate rights Im sure unless there is no admin in Pashto wiki many peple will just publish advertisements and other non-wiki and non-encyclopedic articles. Some are already publishing pornographic pictures that is not considered suitable for kids and for those under 18 years of age. --ANBI (talk) 09:32, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- @ANBI: This discussion is about the whole community, and has been the subject of this discussion and a RFC about issues at psWP. Blocks were made on administrators, pages have been deleted and general issues that should have been resolved by discussion on psWP were not. You chose not to participate or comment in this matter. I did put forward the proposal after running checkuser scans as requested by your community, and all of that is above. I did not close the discussion, nor did I remove rights, I left that up to others to make that determination. There are no bans in place.
Administration of this community will be undertaken by stewards and global administrators as per other small wikis, under the same conditions, as discussed above. — billinghurst sDrewth 09:54, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Please do not put ban on Khangul , its a gang plot against the curators.
Dear Stewards ! I hope you will read this part carefully and then decide what to do , because I see here many people commented from the Urdu-Wikipedia which is one sided arguments and it will be more injustice to discharge the Admins of Pashto wikipedia as well as the Bureaucrat. As you may know the Pakistanis (Urdu speakers)are against the Afghan people because of the politicle instibility in the region and the Afghan government retaliation to the Pakistani attacks on Konar, most of the Pakistanis are aware of that issues and they have captured vast areas of Afghan soil as well so they are afraid to re-lose the area therefore most of the Pakistanis who have large population in the world are active in insulting the Afghans everywhere in the social media even in their own social circles because most of them understand Pashto language and because its the second largest language in Pakistan. they do interfere in all the places where they see the Pashto language community. first of all as you know every wikipedia has its bureaucrat and Admin as well , they know better to manage the wiki according to their community because of the social and cultural differences which is in the national level but most of the global information are stated as it should be by their references. Pashto wikipedia is not inevitable. to explain the issue more closely I would say that every community has its values , great social , religious and political figures who have done great works in course of history so the accurate information are to be recorded in any wikipedia so did the Pashto admins the same , but suddenly a member and previous admin of the pashto wikipedia embarked the greedy demands . the issue is semilar to the plot of the classicle western movies (the good , the bad and the ugly). Usman Mansour Ansari who has been active in pashto wikipedia since 2006 or 2007 til now , Khangul who was an ordinary admin and a good quality writer in pashto language who is active from 2009 up-over, Usman khan shah came across through Urdu wikipedia and interfered in the Pashto wikipedia . I was following the issue how they begun and why did the issue came into the contradiction. Usman Mansour Ansari seems to be from the East Afghanistan who has been born in Peshawar Pakistan and have studied there as well. Usman Khan Shah is a guy from Pakistan or anywhere else but he is Pakistani and came from Urdu-Wikipedia to take a side of Usman Mansour Ansari for the demands they have already planed . I have watched them both and know better the differences of their editorial efforts as well. I also know the Khangul's intention which was just to implement the regularity , deciplines based on the right dictation of the standard Pashto writings not dialectical language anarchy . unfortunately Usman Mansour Ansari and Usman Shah Khan both begun irresponsible changes and both supported each others while they have been informed of the wrong doings , punctuation failures and grammatical issues . At last when they were criticized again , suddenly they brought the Urdu templates and intentionally used the Urdu Alphabets which do not exist in Afghan language of Pashto. then Khangul had argued with them but they didnt listen and invited many other Urdu speakers one of the speaker did write in Urdu that he cant speak Pashto why did Usman Khan and Usman Ansari invited me? he said, his name is (مجیب) . this was the last tolarance then the Admin had no choice and had to ban Usman khan shah . After banning his Usman Mansour Ansari (perhaps raised pakistani ) begun schemes and plots against the Pashto wikipedia in general and demanded the change of the Admins and then nominated himself as Bureaucrat . after Usman shah 's blockage the Mansour Ansari intentionally kept on to impose his eastern dialect which is clearly familiar to the Pakistani side Urdu-affected Pashto dialect, and he was emphasizing on that because the population of the Peshawar pashtons are more than the Ningarharians so the most of the Eastern Afghanistan's province Ningarharian people supports the peshawrians and they have sociolinguistic similarities as well. Usman Mansour Ansari stated that if he is not going to be Bureaucrat nobody can stay bureaucrat, if his dialict is not accepted there is no standardization to follow . This is all the issue which has nothing to do with the religious or irreligious issues , also nor politicle but made that issue politisized so that the Stewards and rest of the members focus on this as bigg issue which today seems to be made bigger. I hope the Stewards and its members review on the issue and do not take anyone's side rather let the Buarucrat and Admins on its place because all of the honest admins and the effective hardworking bueracrat expanded the Pashto wikipedia from 100 articles towards 5000 by now . or if its not going to be reversed then please do not give Usman Mansour Ansari and Khangul both the rights to nominate themselves for the Bureaucracy because it will be injustice action .
I hope to let the Pashto wikipedia to grow forward and the issue of Taliban , Gulbudin ,Bush , democracy and Liberalism and all that shit excuses are not to be mixed with the literary works . all of the people who writes in pashto wikipedia are academics and some use different names doesn't matter as long as they write correct and participate properly . but Usman shah and Usman mansour are both demanding for their political demands both lives in Pakistan as well.
A neutral writer for the Pashto wikipedia : have good time forward --Afghanwrites (talk) 21:24, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- I don't want to discuss further because the issue is resolved. But let me clear that Afghanwrites is a sock-puppet of Khangul and it is proved at CheckUser discusion.And please Also note Khangul sock-puppetry on the Following page where it is cleared that Khangul is doing all these things for many years:
- Comment Actually it is not confirmed that they are sockpuppets. It is confirmed that they are related. Kanghul addressed that aspect in one of their responses. — billinghurst sDrewth 06:01, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Now tell me how could be a person like Khangul the Adminisrtator of Pashto Wikipedia? Instead of Development and encouraging community Khangul (Afghanwrites,ANBI,etc) is destructing the website, He has damaged the credibilty of the site by just enforcing his own-made Policies.
And Khangul I don't know what are you talking about Pakistan and Afghanistan relationship,By nationality I am Pakistan but I have been living out-side of Pakistan for more than 10 years, So I don't know about the politics and relations of Both the countries , I have noticed that you are using bad language for other nations and countries (like India,Pakistan,United States,etc) in your articles. I request you to be neutral while writting articles especial about other Nations,Culture,Countries and Religions.And please don't politicize Wikipedia and other Educational projects , here nothing is personal . And here I am talking as a Human being not a Pakistani or Afghani .
I would like to inform you that when at the time he was chosen as an admin (as Khangul) or crat (as ANBI) for his services, the users were few and very little in number. As the conditions were, back then, he was given away the adminship without much considerations and voting; and as well because uptil then the rules and regulations regarding the adminship were not completely compiled on Pashto Wikipedia.
Khangul or Afghanwrites! You will get nothing by blaming,personal attacking and discussing further .Anyway, I don't want to discuss anymore because the issue is resolved. --UsmanKhan (talk) 22:23, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Afghanwrites: The plan is not to block anyone who is trying to positively edit on the wiki, and who follows the processes around consultation and discussion on talk pages of contentious issues. The community needs to learn to co-exist and discuss, not rule by authority and blocking. After a period of time the community will be invited to again have administrators and the community will have their say on who they will be by means of consensus. None of this is about blame, we are not putting the blame on any people, we just need a clear path to a resolution where the community discusses and resolves their issues. — billinghurst sDrewth 05:22, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- @Billingshurst: Actualy Iam totally agree with you and Khangul has never blocked anyone on behalf of his own ego, interests , or other reason than the ignorance of the Usman Khan shah and Usman Mansour Ansari who tried to implement the Urdu language alphabetes instead the Afghan alphabets. Usman Shah was guided with a very well-mannered and respect but he invited some Urdu speakers joining in implementing their rules of law . Khangul is a very respected and educated person. he has had huge contribution in pashto wikipedia . Usman Mansour ansari and his fellow pakistani Usman shah are trying to focus on their own dialict and ignore the newlogism of the Dr. Mujawar Ahmad Zyar a well-known linguist and anthropologist. there are more people who follow his academic rules made for the language of the Afghans.
I would also suggest you to please make some clear rules which could be the base for all the wikipedians and wikipedias. Also would ask you to please mention the rules which permits the independent multilingual wikipedias's Admins and bureaucrats to implement in a special cases . There are people comming supporting the abuser by intentions , what should an Admin do? there are people from other wikipedia comes and put something inappropriate and none ethical what should an Admin do? there are people who puts porn pictures what should an Admin do? There are people who dont know the language very well , then they write something more wiered and despite the guidence through the language they ignore the rules so what should an Admin do??? alike there are thousands of abuses and basic rules breakers I think in some cases Admin should be allowed to ban or block useless people. with hope to listen to the rationality than to the majority. --Afghanwrites (talk) 08:54, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
SeendGay should be blocked because he put pornographic pictures
Dear Stewards! I hope you block the editor Seendgay who puts only unethical pictures with pornographic naked organs. it is totaly un necessory because the article states one thing the pictures indicate other things and the children and teenagers will be misguided by that. The person (seendgay) is totally irreational and do not complete the article as well. the context of the article is sexual and the language is used vulgar . that person is sent to the pashto wikipedia by the Pakistani Urdu wikipedia. please make any rule for that. kind regards --Afghanwrites (talk) 15:13, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- Seendgay is constantly taking actions against the majority of the users in Pashto Wikipedia. His posts that are not even proper Pashto, and a collection of vulgar words, is highly offending to many of the young Wikipedia users, ladies and underage Wikipedia. I highly recommend that someone take a serious talk with him and make him understand that either he should work in proper manners like discussing a matter scholarly or not even publish a word that is not considered by many as a decent work. --Khangul (talk) 15:43, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- Khangul or Afghanwrites Please discuss these issues on PsWp locally because these are Local issues not Global.And now the Community is going to make new policies for PsWP by consensus (See: ps:Wikipedia:Policies). So you can discuss all the issues there .--UsmanKhan (talk) 19:47, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- UsmanKhan, unfortunately there are no local administrators to monitor the situation and/or enforce policies. @Afghanwrites: are you able to provide links to prior warnings that Seendgay has received? Can you point to a policy or consensus that Seendgay is violating? Thank you, Tiptoety talk 19:51, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- I'd welcome links too. A quick review of contributions only finds normal, informative topics and images   which can't remotely be considered "pornographic". --Nemo 19:58, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
- I am interested in sex and the study of sex [sexual organs, positions etc]. I wrote an article on psWiki. This was being sabotaged by Pashto editors on the grounds of morality through deletion of images and information. Later on they tried to make it unintelligible by using Arabic words such as: فارغ etc. I was also abused by Afghanwrites: Click This. I only want Pashto wikipedia a) to be in Pashto b) be Secular. This is an Encyclopaedia not a Theological-paedia. Best wishes and regards Seendgay (talk) 14:18, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Dear members of Stewards ! It seem that you guys belonging to Pakistan country , its because you guys not listening to the Afghan writers who worked for 5 to 10 years by now and they are constantly providing the best articles and translation from the English wikipedia and from the authentic books . The USMAN KHAN SHAH OR USMAN SHAH is the person who is originally from Pakistan and he wants to interfere in most of the historical articles and destroy for the Afghans. I suggest you to please ban him from the Pashto wikipedia . If he has received the admin-ship and he was allowed in everything in pashto wikipedia than am 100 sure no pashtoon or Afghan will contribute. The Pashto language is the national language of Afghanistan and the Afghans know better how to enrich the language by the knowledge but the URDU and PANJABI people who works mostly in the Urdu and Punjabi wikipedia are willingly , intentionally trying to spread wrong information and make the place full of useless literary anarchy. they are political agents of Pakistan who tries to destroy not just adminship but the context of the Pashto wikipedia , as they have engaged in a small issues and made it bigger by postponing the extended literary works into that wikipedia. Please warn the (seendgay) also who belongs to the Usman Mansour Ansari gangs and he who spread not just vulgar language but intentionally misuse the free expression of speach and actions . he is supported by you guys because he manipulate the word of secular although he himself is not Pashtoon of either side of the region . he is mixing pashto with western words and seems to be the one who only came there to support Usman Mansour Ansari and his gang member Usman Shah. if you don't believe me please invite somebody afghan or pashtoon who shal not be the member in wikipedia then listen from him. We all who works in the wiki are living in the western countries and know the ethical boundaries of the literary works and the extremism of the vulgarity , we all know the street language and literature and respect. This guy is writing in half pashto half Urdu half English and then he say no to Punjabi , no to Farsi and no to ethics or moral. all he does is against the Khangul and against the Pashto wikipedia 's development. If I abruptly come into the English wikipedia and begin something wrong I may also get some warnings and then after third warning they will through me out of the wikipedia because of the irregularity or breakthroughs. please react neutrally and do not support the agents of Urdu or Panjabi wikipedias , nobody knows better a language than its native people. hope you do not waste everything of the pashto wikipedia just because the seendgay and USMAN SHAH or USMAN MANSOUR are equally misinterpreting and manipulating the words of freedom of speech, actions , secularism and liberalism. these all are the ideologies and thoughts of individual human being which is preserved by respect from each person. but if somebody smack me on my face am not going to turn the other .--126.96.36.199 15:23, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
If You want me to dicuss the issues locally why did you blocked me by just a defensive reply? or he was your best friend maybe because of that???
I want to discuss the whole issue anybody wants to discuss with me , but iam blocked and the second issue is there are people who made gangs (groups) three persons , when we want to discuss and come to a rational discussion they invite Urdu and Panjabi speaking people to engage in global talks. they bring issues to global wiki. why did you guys not letting pashto wikipedia to determine on their own moral and traditional values . We Afghans know better how to organize our characteristic values belonging to our own literary sources . we all are human and knows better the values of humanity and know how to preserve the human rights . we have that human rights in our blood and we (the educated afghans) know how to translate in our own language and where are our limits and how to respect people. these things are more far than the issue you guys support. please be neutral and respect everybody not just your own pakistanis or panjabis whatever. when they commit crimes against us we do have to defend ourselves. please clear your limits and boundaries then let us to engage in extending the knowledge to the pooor Afghan people who are under the dectatorship of Iranian , Pakistani made warlords and mafia rulers. people need to know their language and has the right to preserve knowledge . we Afghans are deprived of our own human rights by global attacks and regional Pakistani millitery conspiracies , they do not let us to educate our kids, children , women and sisters. hope you understand the situation . therefore Pakistanis and Iranians are everywhere because they have no war in their country and has fecilities to hinder our aknowledgements. --Afghanwrites (talk) 15:43, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
- Now you have began using politics and slander also. Shame ! Please extend the block on him/khangul Seendgay (talk) 16:44, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
- Blocks are not extended for people having and expressing opinions, they are done for acts of vandalism, etc. Actually, we want the psWP community to discuss issues, and THEN put the edits into place based on a consensus point of view. The community simply has to learn to express a diversity of opinion, and not solely a single view of the world. psWP is an encyclopaedia in the Pashto language that explains an article supported by facts. psWP is not a Pashtun (or part of) community's encyclopaedia that expresses a (narrow) point of view of a community (or part thereof). I would suggest identify what you do agree upon and do that part of the article, then discuss what is in contention on an article talk pages. Learn to accept that there is a broad point of opinion. Stop a possessive point of view, and expand your views, that is what an encyclopaedia is surely meant to be BROADENING rather than narrowing. Seek advice of other WPs on how they got around such issues of contentious discussion.
Abusive Language of Khangul
@Khangul: is trying to malign homosexuals ad indirectly trying to refer to users as gay. I find this offensive in the 21st Century we are living in and certainly contrary to policies of wikipedia. PashtoLover (talk) 14:16, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
- @PashtoLover:Good for you live with harmony, you are stamping Pashto Wikipedia for Talebanopedia without any knowledge of what Talebanopedia is. You simply do that because I criticized your fetishism behaviors. You publish nude pics, You use multiple usernames like Paktyan101, Seendgay, Adjutor101, Adjutor102, Lewaal and PashtoLover. You are not writing about articles to explain it in a scholarly manners, but you do it in a vulgar language which is offensive to everyone. You don't take in consideration that teens and underage boys and girls will use Pashto Wikipedia and those explicit pictures are not suitable for them nor is the offending language of articles about homosexual, masturbation and other sex related topics suitable to be published the way you have done it. You don't know how to use Proper Pashto language, to explain things in understandable and reasonable manners. Besides all these facts that I have mentioned above, this is also the fact that the stewards does not understand Pashto and they cant understand that you are playing a double moral game here with them. --Khangul (talk) 14:55, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Serious Vandalism on Pashto Wikipedia
I started a vote to block Khangul's IP and my vote was tampered with by Afghanwrites: https://ps.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D9%88%D9%8A%DA%A9%D9%8A%D9%BE%DB%90%DA%89%D9%8A%D8%A7%3ABlock_khangul%27s_ip_address&diff=170475&oldid=170474
Please take notice and action against these users PashtoLover (talk) 12:50, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- He has since forged my signature:
https://ps.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%D9%88%D9%8A%DA%A9%D9%8A%D9%BE%DB%90%DA%89%D9%8A%D8%A7%3ABlock_khangul%27s_ip_address&diff=170477&oldid=170476 PashtoLover (talk) 12:52, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- I have reverted the edit, and think at first that is enough. Please notify stewards in case such behaviour continues. Vogone (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- PashtoLover stop the paranoid thoughts, Afghanwrites is another user. We have different points each on different issues. Stop spreading wrong information.--Khangul (talk) 15:04, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Why do I insist in blocking Pakistanis and Indians from the Pashtowkipedia?
Dear Stewards injustice members who do not listen to a stamped contributors! I do insist in blocking the Pakistanis , Indians (both Punjabi or Hinkies)because they are intruders , they do not come in pashto-wkipedia to write properly , do not use proper academic structures but they use Pakistanis , Indians , Punjabi, Hinkys expressions which makes the article full of shit(bad shape). They also use to disrespect pashto language by unethical articles , they also provide disrespected nicknames to the honorable writers . The Usman Mansor and Usman Shah are using them in that manner but they do stand by our ideas afterwards so that they may gain some respect and attraction from the Stewards as they have already been doing . They accused Khangul just for their personal ego and interests to gain the Admin-ship alone and then nominate himself to the bureaucrat afterwards. Mansour Ansari also did that because he promised Usman Khan shah to get him admin-ship as well. therefore both decide and plan outside the wikipedia then they act accordingly . I would like the stewards members to provide a neutral person into this issue rather than giving the full rights to Usman Mansour Ansari (عثمان منصور انصاري)and his friend Usman Shah or Usman Khan Shah (عثمان شاه) . There are third person who can help provide peace into the pashto wikipedia that is Mr. Tahir Kanay or Abdul Kaleem who are upsent for some while because of the Ansari's injustices . here is Mr.Tahir Kanay's profile( https://ps.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF_%D8%B7%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%B1_%DA%A9%D8%A7%DA%BC%DB%8C ) Abdul Kaleem seems to be not having any contact information but you better know how to find then please contact him instead one sided decisions. --Afghanwrites (talk) 15:57, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- I do not think you can can call Usman Khan a Punjabi/Indian. He is a of Pashto bloodline an an extremely helpful and neutral Wikipedia Editor. He has always shown civility and dignity something that you lack and have been blocked for PashtoLover (talk) 19:36, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- The nationality of someone is completely irrelevant. This is a language wiki, not a nationality wiki. We should not even entertain a continuance of such a discussion based on that level of bias.
Where there is a disagreement on language, then have the discussion, create redirects, etc. Language is never static, and as more cultures mix it will continue to be that way. The most important thing is the presentation of ideas in the language, not the obsession about initial perfection. Wiki is about add, improve and fix. — billinghurst sDrewth 00:41, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
Who brought up this issue of homophobea Here
This is absolutely nonsense anyone who claim that there is homophobia in Pashto wikipedia.--Khangul (talk) 19:37, 5 May 2015 (UTC)
- Khangul, you responded extensively to the user who brought this up, above. You'd blocked that user. So it is strange for you to now ask who brought it up.
- I'll say this: I haven't seen specific evidence of "homophobia." But so what? There is "possible homophobia" everywhere. The user you blocked (and the user is still blocked there) was offended, and so complained, starting this. It had little effect until you blocked another administrator. That got the stewards' attention! If you participate in Requests for comment/Support collaboration on Pashto Wikipedia, or at least work to find consensus on ps.wiki, maybe we can get the project back on track. --Abd (talk) 23:47, 5 May 2015 (UTC)