Talk:Wikipedia/Logo

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Please see Talk:Errors in the Wikipedia logo for previous discussions, but discuss here instead of there.

Hidden puzzle pieces[edit]

I've included a list of the 16 Wikipedia languages I've found that use lettering not represented in the "modified" Wikipedia logo listed at Wikipedia/Logo#Proposed_revision. I am not sure if there are other lettering, but there will certainly be more than 32 puzzle pieces in all when all is said and done. What do we use at this point? Different letters (Like V or U) that start various other Wikipedia projects? Cary Bass demandez 18:54, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, that would make sense. Cbrown1023 talk 20:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

The proposed Chinese character[edit]

Do we really need to change the Chinese character from "袓" to "維"? I like the original character for these reasons:

  1. The meaning: "袓" means "white and beautiful", which perfectly fit the ball's color and shape. "維" in classical Chinese means some foundation to form the nation.
  2. It's a interesting story on why the designer use "袓" on the Wikipedia global (even we cannot be sure why he use it).
  3. Since "袓" is rarely used than "維" in common life, it would make people curious and learn the new things, which fits the Wikipedia vision to spread our own knowledge to the human beings.
  4. "袓" is been used on the global for years and people are getting used to it.

Just my 2 cents. But I would accept what community decides. --H.T. Chien ( Talk / Contributions ) 04:17, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

"The puzzle logo includes 15 letters from 15 different alphabets, many of which — but not all — represent a letter from that alphabet that most closely resembles the English "W", as in "Wikipedia"."--Shizhao 05:59, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
As "袓" is an unusual (seldom used) character in Chinese, many Chinese readers misunderstand the character as "祖" (a more common character which means "ancestor") and often complain the character in the logo written wrongly. Therefore, I support changing that to "維", which is the first character of "維基百科" (Wikipedia), as it makes more sense to Chinese readers. -- Kevinhksouth 15:49, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Kevin as "維" has much more relationship to Wikipedia and more fimiliar to Chinese editors.--Demigod 18:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Kevin too.-Skjackey tse 08:48, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

1 supports keep using "袓", 3 supports change to "維". Stewart~惡龍 11:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm curios about the interesting story of using "袓". If there's something behind, then it may be good for introducing this when we're talking about Wikipedia and its logo. Stewart~惡龍 11:03, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it's better to change to 维. It's true that a lot of Chinese users had mistaken the original character as 祖 (I, for example). And I see no reason to use a rare and obsolete Chinese character along with widely used letters such as W on a logo representing an international project.--尖尖的鹿角 11:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible to change the Chinese character 維 in the proposed globe? 維 is a traditional Chinese character which differs from its simplified form 维 using as the first character of the name of Wikipedia in simplified Chinese. It's not a good idea that simplified Chinese is not represented in the Wikipedia globe. I prefer the Chinese character 未 for these reasons:

  • 未 is used both in traditional and simplified Chinese.
  • 未 is pronounced as 'way' in English which is closer to 'wi-' than the pronunciation of 維 or 维.
  • 未 has fewer strokes. That makes its apprearance more elegant in the globe.

--MtBell 06:38, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Runes[edit]

May I propose that you consider the Nordic Runes/Runic set of letters in this project. Sincerely User:sv:Mkh 09:07, 11 October 2008 (UTC), 09:50, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

In that case this letter should be the appropriate.//svHannibal 12:41, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, do Runes. By all means. —Wōdenhelm 18:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

all projects logos[edit]

I know this is slightly off-topic, but I started to work in an extended version of Wikipedia logo in each language, to include all projects and languages. This will hopefully fix the issue of having a lot of duplicated info spread across several wikipedia/meta/commons pages and hopefully make it easier to manage this huge amount of information. Please help here if you're interested. --Waldir 19:20, 11 October 2008 (UTC)

The Cyrillic symbol[edit]

I don't think that the proposed Cyrillic symbol is a good idea. I don't know if it is supposed to represent the first letter/sound of the name "Wikipedia" in Cyrillic, but in at least one of the Cyrillic editions of Wikipeida (in Bulgarian) the name begins with У (w), not with В (v) (as in Russian, for example). Besides, it is easily confused/almost identical to the Latin letter B, so it fails to represent the Cyrillic alphabet (if that's the idea). --Daggerstab 18:56, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

This is why the proposal uses the Lower case "в" instead which looks completely different from Latin "b" or greek "β". :) Cary Bass demandez 19:00, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
I might add that there are lots of spaces left. Many of those will likely be taken up by alternative Wikipedia spellings in various languages, like "V", "U" and "У" Cary Bass demandez 19:01, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't understand what do letters Й and Ω symbolize on the logo. If they symbolized word Wikipedia we should use letters В and Β. So if we want to use rarely used letters we should use Ў or Ґ (for cyrillic) which used in only one cyrrilic alphabet (Ў in Byelorussian and Ґ in Ukrainian).--Ahonc 19:12, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

  • I think, that logo must contain a specific character (yes, we can put "O" - and found it in most part of languages). As was purposed, I think, we must use a sign 'Ж' (lowercase 'ж'). Yes, it does not any accociation with wiki, but Й has none to. Ж is used, but not very offen, and it has really 'non-latinic' style. #!George Shuklin 19:58, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
Ў can be kinda cool, because it can be related to Wikipedia, as Ў has the sound of W, more or less. Neither of the Belarusian Wikipedias uses it in the name, however.
Ж is probably the coolest-looking Cyrillic letter, but it is not related to Wikipedia.
Д is pretty cool, though - from my experience, people who don't know Cyrillic find it almost as funny as Ж. And it appears in "wikipeDia". --Amir E. Aharoni 21:35, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
В italicized.svg is what I proposed on the other page, which is the italic version of the miniscule Cyrillic B. It is significantly unique from the others, and as a Roman alphabet I have to say it looks rather un-Roman. bastique demandez! 16:21, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
The В italicized.svg letter may be somehow representative of the Russian, Serbian and Macedonian WP but it is not representative of the Bulgarian, where we have adopted the accurate pronounciation /ˌwɪkɪˈpiːdɪə/ (rather than /ˌvɪkɪˈpiːdɪə/). By the way, I don't understand the motivation to embed link to the Russian WP under the word "Cyrillic" in the proposal. The Cyrillic alphabet was only borrowed by Russians, not invented by them... Or it was size that mattered? ;-) Spiritia 13:18, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
There are no political issues going on here; the link to Russian was convenient, as it was already being linked from the previous. This is not a topic to get up in arms about. The "У" and possibly "Д" will be represented on some of the hidden puzzle pieces. The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bastique (talk • contribs) 17:49, 24 October 2008.
Yes, I completely agree with you and as I expounded below, the outcry against the use of in Bulgarian comes from colloquial and too contemporary trends, this was not the case in the times of the Third Bulgarian Tsardom. Please preserve the "в". Bogorm 20:00, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
Letters Ж and Й is much better and more representative for curyllic alphabet than "в" ;) --Kaganer 15:59, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but neither of these characters represents any letter of "Wikipedia". We have about 40-50 other characters that do... bastique demandez! 17:49, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Here's a small research of the logos in all wikipedias using Cyrillic. Seems that the only common letters for all of them are к (k), п (p) and д (d). Now, к/К is not appropriate, as it is undistinguishable from the Latin K and Greek Kappa, п/П is homoglyph with the Greek letter Pi and maybe only д/Д remains as an option. If there is a possibility for two cyrillic letters, В and У , that would be a good alternative, but I guess there's only one spare place per alphabet. :-) Spiritia 20:59, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
With regard to the Bulgarian language, "в" is a completely sensible proposal, since for Bulgarian it was habitual (until recently) to incorporate Anglicisms with initial w as "в...", exempli gratia George Washington is always spelt Вашингтон in Bulgarian В and in the most venerable encyclopedia of ours and Велингтон and Вест Индия are accepted as correct forms of the у-transliteration(Wellington, West India). Had Wikipedia been invented 40 years ago or earlier, it would be spelt exactly as in Russian and moreover; furthermore methinks that the spelling with в sounds elaborate and authentic in comparison with the contemporary у-fashion. It goes without saying that the link to the Russian Wikipedia must be present, since it has reached the top 10, Russian is the representative of the Cyrillic script with furthermost superficial and popular extension and I as an Bulgarian wholly support it. If the Bulgarian Wikipedia also reaches the top 10, then please add an appropriate link as well. Contemporary Bulgarian teems with recent innumerable more or less apt incorporations of Anglicisms and the "у"-tendency in rendering English W serves only as an epitome of the swerving from the literary Bulgarian language. Bogorm 19:31, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

В is nothing! I mean there is a latin letter b... looks like В. I'll like to see one of the typical cyrillic letters: Й, Ъ, Ц, Я, Ю, Ч or Ь--213.91.193.194 08:22, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

Purpose of this page + Bengali script[edit]

What is the purpose of this page? Will the languages/scripts shown under the section "Wikipedia languages with writing styles not represented" be included in the new logo? Several of the non-represented languages/scripts are among the most spoken ones ... for example, en:Bengali language is ranked between 4th and 7th in terms of native speakers (around 250 million people). So, any new logo should include the major unrepresented languages/scripts. --Ragib 19:23, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes! The additional characters are going on additional puzzle pieces. :) That is the purpose for creating the page! However, I've been doing this much myself (still hoping for lots of people to show up from the projects, have only gotten to the B's so far :) Cary Bass demandez 21:09, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
Being a Bengali (Bangla) native speaker, I am very much want to see Bengali script at wikipedia logo. I am strongly support Bengali rhôshsho u (U+0989) (উ) for that. Not only Bengali (bn) project using উ to write Wikipedia in the native language, Bishnupriya Manipuri (bpy) project also using উ to write Wikipedia in their native language.--Bellayet 03:52, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
As seen in Wikipedia/Logo#Wikipedia_languages_with_writing_styles_not_represented, I picked that character. However, in retrospect, I think given the numbers of people who write in Bengali and the size of the Bengali (and add on the bpy project); the rhôshsho u (U+0989) (উ) should probably substitute for the Georgian, Kannada, Khmer or Tibetan characters! I'm inclined to replace the Tibetan (ཝི) with the Bengali (উ) and move the Tibetan to one of the two empty visible locations on the bottom. bastique demandez! 15:57, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Scripts actively used[edit]

According to Nakanishi Printing, Inc. http://www.nacos.com/moji/ we can see 28 kind of scripts being actively used in the current world. They tentatively use daily newspaper availability as their measure to determine if it is "actively used". Those 28 scripts are:

  • Europe to Middle East
    • Latin script
    • Greek
    • Russian (so-called Cyrillic)
    • Georgian
    • Armenian
    • Hebrew
    • Arabic
    • Urdu
  • Indian Subcontinent and neighbor
    • Devanagari (used in Hindu etc.)
    • Gurmukhi (for Punjabi)
    • Gujarati
    • Oriya
    • Bengali
    • Kannada
    • Malayalam
    • Sinhalese (UNICODE: 0D80-0DFF, not sufficiently supported)
  • Indochina
    • Burmese
    • Khmer
    • Thai
    • Lao (used in Laos)
  • East Asia
    • Chinese ("hanyu" for zh)
    • Tibetan (UNICODE: 0F00-0FFF, not sufficiently supported)
    • Mongolian (used in Inner Mongolia/PLC Mongolia Autonomous Region only UNICODE: 1800-18AF, not sufficiently supported)
    • Korean (Hungul)
    • Japanese ("kana")
  • Africa
    • Amharic

On the other side of those 28, we seem to have 20 slots as far as I see the main page. So we need to omit some of them.

Hope that helps. --Aphaia 22:45, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I was under the impression that Urdu uses the Arabic script. Also, I know that Cree syllabary is definitely used in Inuktitut, but there was not a separate section for North America. bastique demandez! 23:32, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

They admit the possibility of missing and daily media publication is a bit higher requirement while it may somehow reflect the activity and population of the language concerned. Geographic diversity is another thing we may want to consider. As for BengaliUrdu, there is a dispute on scripts like Serbian language. Urdu reads two ways are used in Pakistan and India. Pakistani Urdu speakers (the majority of that language) uses Perso-Arabic one as you pointed out. It may just mean they want to distinguish Urdo from pure Arabic script (the former has some special additions) and it could have nothing to do with the vowel letter which may be taken for that logo. Also I personally think we would like to consider which script is used on Wikimedia projects in concerns. --Aphaia 23:44, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Urdu is indeed written in the Arabic script (though, along with Persian, a rahter special style) - not only in Pakistan but also by Indian Urdu speakers (who actually form a vast majority of all Urdu speakers, at least if native speakers are concerned). I don't know about any dispute in Bengali - could you specify this? Anyway, as for South Asia, the list further lacks Tamil and Telugu scripts (these languages are used by some 60 or 70 million people respectively!) and also Dhivehi for the Maldives.
I think it's a good approach to gather all the scripts actively used at the present time. However, you should take in account, that this might produce some undue bias towards the Indian subcontinent, since almost every language there has its own script. Of course India, which hosts a sixth of the world population, ought to be properly represented, but as Alphaia said, regional diversity should also be concerned. --BishkekRocks 19:09, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for poking, I think I would have liked to say "Urdo" instead of Bengali. Corrected.
The list is as said narrowed with the measure "daily newspaper publication" and we know other scripts used even their activities are as high as those above. Also I think we would like to take care of Wikipedia presence, like proposed. There are some classical/historic language scripts which have however their own Wikipedia eventually. --Aphaia 19:54, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
If it came to not having enough spaces to support all character we want to have, we could place less used ones on the inside of the globe, too. When we make a turnable / animated version, it could open up at random places. When pieces are moving away, both the inner side of the globe is uncovered, and the piece turns revealing its back side. If that is still not sufficing, we could even have a series of glyphs, which in endless repetition are put on the puzzle piece that becomes visible next. --Purodha Blissenbach 20:47, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Japanese script: ウィ?[edit]

I am not sure if we would like to have two letters "ウィ" for Japanese, equivalent to "wi" or "bi" or whatever, specially when one letter is chosen for other languages. For me it looks somehow unbalanced. Would we rather like to have "ウ" simply? --Aphaia 23:52, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Depends on whether the atom here is to be found in language or scripture. Japanese language is based on morae and wi/bi is a single phoneme, considering. Japanese scripture in kana however, does not have a single grapheme for every single phoneme. Therefore some phonemes are represented with a combination of graphemes. --84.137.36.97 18:28, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for that but I think I know it already. For me a native Japanese speaker, ウィ a couple of script which is a modern invention, looks somehow unbalanced and stabilized. Small ィ has not been used until the end of WW2 and writing system modernization. And here I understand our concern is rather scripture than phonetic phenomena. So I think ウ is here preferable. --Aphaia 20:01, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I also think ウ is preferable. Because this logo reminds me of movable types, where a piece of writing scripts occupies one block, and which is more like graphical atom than phonological atom.
As another related point, several people in a parallel discussion in jawiki pointed out, and I also agree, that Mincho typeface (like in the version by Mizusumashi) is more preferable considering the balance among other scripts. However, I couldn't find any agreement or strongly convincing opinions on both sides of ウィ and ウ. --whym /ɯhɥm/ 03:19, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
There are kana for wi and we, which are not used very frequently mostly because they are widely considered to be "archaic". In katakana, "Wikipedia" could be written using this kana (ヰ) as ヰキペディア, and the logo could use ヰ or ゐ (the hiragana equivalent) instead of the more modern double-character usage. As Aphaia stated above, chisaii-i (ィ) is used in modern writing almost exclusively for loanwords, and is not normally needed to form a Japanese word. If the issue here, as it seems, really is the script and want of a single character, ヰ is the way to go. Also, why not a gyosho or kaisho font? There are plenty of those, and some are free. I'd be more than willing to supply one that I have if it were needed, or to simply make the character's image for use on the logo. ベリット 話せます 08:34, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello everyone. I'm mizusumashi. My home wiki is Japanese Wikipedia.

English
  1. ワ(+ ィ) vs. ウ(+ ィ) - "wa (+ i)" vs "u (+ i)" - We don't need any discussion. "u (+ i)" is right.
  2. ウ vs ウィ - "u" vs "u + i" - This is a difficult problem. /wi/ is one morae. If we use ウ - "u" -, people would read this as not /w/ or /wi/ but just /u/. Therefore I support not so strongly ウィ - "u + i" -. In the other side, ウィ - "u + i" - are two characters. ウ - "u" - is one character. I don't disagree strongly against ウ - "u" -.
    I think there are 2 characters too in Khmer, Tibetan, and Devanagari. I propose to use 1 character in Japanese only if anyone change to 1 character in Khmer, Tibetan, and Devanagari.
  3. mincho typeface vs gothic typeface - I don't have any strong opinion. But in Japanese Wikipedia there are more support to mincho than gothic.
Japanese

英語に自信がないので日本語でも書きます。あと英語で書ききれなかった部分も、書いておきます。

  1. ワ(+ ィ)か、ウ(+ ィ)か? - これは、ウ(+ ィ)のほうが正しいということで、異論はないと思います。
  2. ウか、ウィか? - 私としては、音韻的にウィが1モーラとして認識されているという基準に説得力を感じます。現実的に、「ウ」と表記してしまうと日本語話者は/u/と認識するだけで、それが/wi/の一部だとは認識できないでしょうから。したがって、私はどちらかといえば「ウィ」を支持します。ただ、たしかに私自身も「ウィ」は二文字であると認識しており、したがって一文字である「ウ」を使うべきだ、という提案も十分に理解できます。ですから、「ウ」となっても異議があるというほどではありません。
    クメール文字、チベット文字、デーヴァナーガリーについてはよく分からないのですが、これらも二文字を使用しているようですから、それにあわせるということでどうかと思います。逆に、クメール文字、チベット文字、デーヴァナーガリーについてとくに議論が盛り上がらず、二文字のままで放置されるようなのなら、日本語だけ一文字に改める必要はないのではないでしょうか。
  3. 明朝体か、ゴシック体か? - 私自身は、それほどこだわりはありません。ただ、これはほぼ純粋に感性的な問題であって、ウィキペディア日本語版の議論では明朝体を支持する意見が強かったので、明朝体を自然と感じる人が多いのならそう改めたほうが良いだろうと思います。

Sorry for my poor English. Thank you. --mizusumashi 06:54, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I think situations would be different between Katakana and Devanagari. As far as I (ja-N and hi-0.2 or something) know, Katakana doesn't use combination of graphemes except for Yōon and several newly used scripts including ウィ, while Devanagari does in a systematic way. In Devanagari, for example, you modify a consonant grapheme /ka/ with a vowel grapheme /i/ in order to represent /ki/ (see Syllabary and Abugida). --whym /ɯhɥm/ 16:10, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Whym, thank you for the comment.
I see your point. Katakana is a syllabary at least generally while Devanagari is not. I cancel my proposal "to use 1 character in Japanese only if anyone change to 1 character in Khmer, Tibetan, and Devanagari."
I don't cancel my support to ウィ - "u + i" -. Because I think ウィ - "u + i" - is more useful than ウ - "u" -. But this support is not so strong.
Sorry for my poor English. Thank you. --mizusumashi 12:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
@ mizusumashi: looking at Mincho typeface, I have to agree it does tend to look better; and the lettering under the globe on the Japanese wiki is certainly not in gothic. It would be similar to serif and sans-serif in roman text, right? I'll change the proposal to Mincho when I get an opportunity. bastique demandez! 00:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Bastique, thank you for the comment.
Yes, the title under the globe is Mincho, I think. At least not gothic. w:en:Serif#East Asian Equivalents says "in Japan the most popular serif style is called Minchō". I can help change Japanese typeface in logo to Mincho, if you want.
Sorry for my poor English. Thank you. --mizusumashi 12:48, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
That would be kind of you to do, mizusumashi. I have been generally making my glyph SVGs in Inkscape, using 256px x 256px squares and 200pt fonts. bastique demandez! 15:41, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I uploaded Image:ウィ 明朝体.svg to Wikimedia Commons.
Why did I upload ウィ(u+i)? Because making ウ(u) from ウィ(u+i) is very easy, but ウィ(u+i) from ウ(u) is not.
Why did I upload with Japanese file name? It's just my mistake :-) I can upload it once more with another file name, if anyone need.
Sorry for my poor English. Thank you. --mizusumashi 13:44, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I set up a discussion on jaWP VP page. How about making a consensus on jaWP community, then feeding it back here? --Hatukanezumi 14:00, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

(supp.) On the page above, yet another candidate ヰ (a historical katakana letter stands for /wi/, sometimes mistakenly for /yi/) was also shown :-). Please wait for some more time to make consensus on jaWP community. Thanks. --Hatukanezumi 16:18, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
As a historical linguist I can certainly appreciate ヰ /wi/. However, 1) that pronunciation died out many centuries ago and it is now read as [i], and 2) it is obsolete and rarely ever used anymore; similar to English usage of þ, ƿ, ð. Thus it is hardly practical for the purposes of this logo. Bendono 10:34, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

It is voting here now. --Law soma D C 08:10, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

In the end, JAWP community decided it to "ウィ" idea.--Law soma D C 03:04, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Glagolitic[edit]

So if there were idea to add Runic symbol to Logo, how about Glagolitic letter Ⰲ (vede)? ОйЛ (OiL) 04:33, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

See the page? It's on the list! bastique demandez! 15:46, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Hieroglyphic ?[edit]

What about egiptian Hierogliphic? --Sailko 18:48, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Having Hierogliphic sounds fabulous but it also reminds me the dispute we had after Klingon shut-down, if a language which is rejected to have a Wikipedia was welcome to be represented on our logo. I think it better to have a collection of scripts used on Wikipedia. Langcom may not approve Ancient Egyptian language Wikipedia, so in this point of view, it may be no good idea. --Aphaia 20:05, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
Mmmm it could be cool... anyway, did you think to put a "V" as well...? latin wikipedia is Vicipaedia. --Sailko 21:24, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I did have a thought that text in things like Hieroglyphic and Klingon, where we'll almost certainly never have Wikipedias in can go on the "missing" pieces at the top of the globe. bastique demandez! 23:18, 16 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't think that, having to have a Wikipedia (now) should be a hard selection criterion. --Purodha Blissenbach 20:49, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Let it be.[edit]

Let the logo stay like it is. It's just a LOGO, Wikipedia is not the place for political correctness (adding every alphabet to the logo).--Westermarck 23:35, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I think we have that changes (if there is some changes) should be as small as possible. Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 00:34, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
It seems neither of you were involved in the lengthy discussions on foundation-l or in correcting errors in the existing logo. Please also note that this is a Foundation-endorsed activity -- they would like to see the globe completed and corrected: it's a fun project and makes items more accurate. "Just a LOGO" really doesn't work in the world of marketting and brand identification. Cbrown1023 talk 01:43, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Good point too ;) I’m not againt changes (contrary to Westermarck) but I think the new logo must be very similar to the old one, in order to keep a continuity. Obviously, correct the wrong characters is a good thing but why complete the globe ? For what use ? Moreover, on the francophone Wikipedia we don’t use the common logo (there is a little difference, see [1]). Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 10:59, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Just to chime in - I know there's been some discussion about this unfolding as an activity to map out all the languages, or that there's a broader interest in trying to be be over-inclusive. The basis for this project is to re-engineer the logo so we can do more stuff with it - be more creative. It's also to get back to a basic digital format that we can modify and adjust over time (perhaps over many many years), which is highly normal for any visual identity. The WP logo has already gone through lots of little changes and improvements to that effect. The logo itself, as it appears on Wikipedia, will only be different in that we'll correct the wrong characters and be able to do a bit more with it later on. Points taken though; glad to read up on the wise recommendations on the page. JayWalsh 04:35, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
Let the logo be. So what if some of the characters are "wrong". In fact that is quite symbolic: quite a high percentage of the content of Wikipedia is actually wrong, as well (and that cannot be fixed). It is a Logo, meant to be recognised. Why change it, and decrease recognition? - Brya 05:32, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
I disagree. It was already referred in New York Times and no bright side of the project advertisement. Also I need to say the people whose using letters are wrongly represented feel offended and demand to correct for years. Also we regularly get external inquiry to ask why Wikipedia logo contains wrong character. In my opinion it is not wise from the marketing view and not nice for the community integrity. You have not to keep the other wrongly represented. Factually you say that Japanese or Indian are okay to be wrongly represented but European letters are all correctly represented. I feel it a horrible idea and hope you how it sounds discriminative. Millions people are unhappy potentially just for your information. --Aphaia 08:07, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem if imo minor changes to the logo make non-western language speakers happier. I'm afraid/happy I would not notice this kind on (in my opinion) minor changes. The logo as globe-puzzle using different character-sets is very well suited for its goal. Nothing wrong with optimizing a bit. - bemoeial 00:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Only change the globe picture seems not to hard. But then we have to change all the languages versions. Is not too much work just to change few letters while there are more than 15 alphabets in the world (and even in Wikipedias) ? Arno Lagrange  00:34, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
It's really okay, we'll have to standardize all the language versions anyway; I'm unhappy with a few font choices on some of the non-roman Wikipedia, anyway (Khmer for one). bastique demandez! 00:38, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

SignWriting character[edit]

In the discussion about this subject I asked if it is possible to have a SignWriting character as well. There are currently two requests for a sign language Wikipedia. People are working on developing an extension that will enable MediaWiki to support these languages and consequently I hope that we will select one SignWriting character as well. Thanks, GerardM 11:32, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

I want to second this proposal. There are a limited number of truly independent writing systems in the world, and SignWriting is one of them. The fact that Wikimedia will soon be hosting the first ever encyclopedias written in sign languages, languages which are used daily by millions, is an important achievement to be highlighted. And certainly it should add to the case that SignWriting has a unique visual appearance, distinctive from any other script.--Pharos 11:33, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
True -
btw., another completely independent system that one might wish to consider would be Bliss Symbolics. It is interesting because it is not tied to any language, not even a conventionally signed one. Bliss Symbols are only written.
A side thought: Would be interesting to see a Wikipedia in Bliss Symbols. I think they're not used widely enough to have a sufficient community, though. I am not really knowledgeable about it, maybe, they're too simple, too, to make it possible to cover more complex and more abstract scientific topics and thus not really suited for Wikipedia. --Purodha Blissenbach

Ç[edit]

Letter ç is a letter in some modern latin languages and in turkish. Ñ is a letter in Spanish and in any other language. Pérez 80.24.186.207 08:44, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Post Data: Some languages have stress consonants: Česká for example.

I'd like to use the "Ç" too.--Ssola 16:37, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
I'd support adding the ç too. --Meldor 15:38, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree this purpose too. It would be better putting ç instead of ñ. --Joanot 01:35, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
my vote too for the Ç --81.202.70.126 15:35, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

A fresh proposal for Hebrew and other languages[edit]

Does it really have to be the first letter in the word "Wikipedia"?

The current Hebrew letter that appears in the globe is Resh (ר). It doesn't appear in the word Wikipedia at all. It is possible that the designer confused it with the letter Vav (ו), which is the first letter in Wikipedia, because these letter look quite similar in this font.

Well, Resh is not relevant for "Wikipedia" and it is not a particularly beautiful or interesting letter, so it can be safely changed. The question is - to what? One can be consistent and change it to Vav, but the character Vav is even less interesting than Resh.

So here's some fresh thinking: change it to the letter Pe (פ). It would be the p in "-pedia", which makes it relevant, and its appearance is quite unique and interesting. --Amir E. Aharoni 10:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I think this Vav will look nice on the logo. Daniel B 10:52, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Vav is more relevant than Resh, but Pe looks much cooler. --Amir E. Aharoni 22:00, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
Coolness is not a criteria for choosing a letter for the logo- an example: the letter "G" is very similar to Pe (פ) and it's still not in the logo although it's prettier then "W". Just stick to vav.Matan20 12:56, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Amir. The Vav is just a line. It could easily be mistaken to belong to a different alphabet other than Hebrew. The 'Pe' is therefore preferable and can easily be identified as a Hebrew character. Yonidebest 14:39, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
It's only a line if you're using a plain font. A Hebrew serif typeface of the style that that Daniel B linked to would I think be distinctive.--Pharos 17:32, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
In a serif font it is only slightly better than just a line, and not even close to the coolness of Pe (פ). --Amir E. Aharoni 21:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
I think Hebrew vav.svg is way cool, very specifically Hebrew looking, and yet simple and elegant :) I also think that the Pe (פ) would make a nice additional character for one of the hidden sides. bastique demandez! 17:58, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

A question about the name of Wikipedia in Hebrew: Why is it spelled with kof instead of with kaf? Qof in some spoken Hebrew dialects represents another sound (as in Arabic ق), and so it did historically in the Semitic language. I guess it would have been safer it spell it with kaf, right? --A. Gharbeia 17:48, 18 November 2008 (UTC) Scratch that. This would make people pronounce it [x]. It's a twisted thing, but strange given the history of the language. There are similar cases in Arabic as well. --A. Gharbeia 18:02, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Old scripts[edit]

The hidden side should contain some ideograms of old scripts. At commons there are some Maya script characters. More can be found in the History of writing systems. I think that maya, egyptian hieroglyph and Cuneiform will fit. -- JakobVoss 20:49, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Korean Font[edit]

Image:Wikisymbols.png included Image:Hangul wi.svg. Wikipedia/Logo#SVG Version of proposed revisions included Image:Hangul wi serif.svg. Which one will be included in new logo? (Actually, Korean Wikipedia has used Image:Hangul wi.svg)--Kwj2772 13:55, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I believe the serif version is better and will endeavor to ensure its inclusion. bastique demandez! 15:27, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

character map[edit]

you can find alot of characters on windows vista operating system by: start menu >> all programs >> accissories >> system tools >> character map .

Border[edit]

Don't know if this was already discussed, but apart from the characters, noone noticed a white border in the globe when seen on the gray background? That should be corrected. Fernando 81.32.136.26 20:45, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

This problem was fixed with the German Wikipedia logo a while ago, and the English Wikipedia has copied them already. I see that the Spanish Wikipedia is still using the old version of the logo with the visible border.--Pharos 23:13, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh, thanks. 81.32.136.26 13:18, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Is there end limit of time to discuss?[edit]

We, jawp users, are talking about character(s) on this logo in jawp. Our discussion is a little complex and we may need voting, I think.

Is there end limit of time to feedback to meta?

Sorry for my poor English. Thank you.--mizusumashi 11:16, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, as you can see, we're still working on this, and it is a slow process. I'm not sure a "vote" is necessary. :) bastique demandez! 17:52, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Javanese[edit]

It's nice of you to have thought of the Javanese script as well! Meursault2004 23:50, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Aramaic[edit]

If there is to be Arabic and Hebrew script, please include the third main Semitic writing system - Aramaic, as well, for Aramaic is the language with one of the greatest and most significant cultural heritage from the languages in the Middle East with 4 million native speakers today. Since Wikipedia is spelt ܘܝܟܝܦܕܝܐ in Aramaic, I propose ܘ from the Estrangelo script. Bogorm 19:53, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Aramaic is already proposed in the form of Syriac waw.svg!. bastique demandez! 16:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Cyrillic again[edit]

I've decided to propose the following characters: Д, И, and Я, as all of these are contained in the word, Wikipedia in both Russian and Bulgarian. One of these would be more appropriate for the front of the logo, and I'm inclined to choose И without an accent, as it's already in the logo with an accent on it (which is not contained in either versions of "Wikipedia"). Any thoughts ? bastique demandez! 18:44, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

It was not an accent, it was the letter en:Й. AFAIK, it had been chosen because it's more distinctive - И is similar to Latin capital N. As for "Russian and Bulgarian", there are other languages that use Cyrillic letters. :) See User:Spiritia/Logo. --Daggerstab 20:02, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
But the last link discloses that only the Chechen Wikipedia makes usage of the Й, please, do not accept it, I am against that. Д, И, and Я are far more widespread, common, intelligible and even far more present in words of the corresponding languages... Й is used in Bulgarian words approximately as often as "q" in English and in Russian even rarer. Bogorm 21:16, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
For the record - I'm OK with Ж, or Д, if you insist on using a letter from the name. --Daggerstab 21:58, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Maybe to a native Cyrillic reader it seems too similar to Latin capital "N", but to a Latin reader, it's completely representative of Cyrillic (although I'd argue that Я is even more so). Because the "Й" is already on the logo, in that place, using the "И" would be preferable, because it doesn't change the logo oermuch, and it is actually found in (unless I'm wrong) every Cyrillic version of "Wikipedia," in fact, the most common letter among them. bastique demandez! 22:35, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
Amendment: except Ukrainian and Belorussian. bastique demandez! 22:36, 10 November 2008 (UTC).
You are right, but now there are so many trade marks, which especially accent on "mirror" words or letters in them, like FCUK, PLAYLIFE (with "mirror" F) etc. So И will not be quite distinctive from N as we think. It could be accepted just like the next advertising trick. The same is for Я - "mirror" of R.
I think we should choose a contrast, distinctive and especially identical cyrillic symbol, like ѣ, A-iotified.svg or Д. Best wishes, --Иван 08:28, 11 November 2008 (UTC)--Ivanov id 08:26, 11 November 2008 (UTC)

Thai letter[edit]

I don't quite agree to have the letter "วิ" on the logo. ว is W in English and ิ is i in English. If you want a single W like in English language, you should be using only ว. --125.24.33.237 14:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

We've used multiple letters for other languages, that hasn't been a problem before. It's not strange for us to use two letters if it looks better than one. :-) Cbrown1023 talk 21:26, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
We use "Wi" in the language if it's a single glyph that uses the W - I combination of two characters. Like the "วิ"  :) bastique demandez! 23:48, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

African extension[edit]

Some african languages uses the latin alphabet, but with an african extension. If Wikipedia believes in a future of this continent, it would be nice to include one caracter of this extension in the globe, even they are not the beginning of the word Wikipedia in any language. ɛ Ɛ ɛ́ Ɛ́ ɛ̌ Ɛ̌ ɛ̂ Ɛ̂ ɔ Ɔ ɔ́ Ɔ́ ɔ̌ Ɔ̌ ɔ̂ Ɔ. See also: en:Africa_Alphabet Greetings from lingála Wikipedia --Eruedin 12:32, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

"If Wikipedia believes in the future of this continent" is an odd question, considering that Wikipedia is the number one online resource in a few African langauges. We also have represented on the front of the globe, a character from Amharic, of which 17,000,000 speakers who mostly live on the African continent. bastique demandez! 00:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Malayalam Letter 'Vi'[edit]

Malayalam Letter 'Vi' is not correct Malayalam va + short i.svg here. I have uploaded the correct letter 'Vi' for Malayalam Malayalam va+short i.gif here. Please update it.--Anoopan 18:35, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

This is the text used in Code2000 Font. What font did you use so that it may be uploaded in the proper (SVG) format? bastique demandez! 01:13, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Which character is used?[edit]

As for the characters, which character do we include? I mean as for english we see the letter W? so in other languages which special character should be used?

--Glacious 08:03, 20 November 2008 (UTC)

Baybayin 'w'[edit]

I ran into this discussion on the Cebuano Wikipedia, and hoping to join in the rush of Southeast Asian scripts that have their 'w' symbols proposed (Javanese, Thai, etc.), I was hoping to see the Baybayin (old Tagalog/Ilokano/Pangasinan/Bikol/Cebuano script) 'w' on the new logo. That can take the form of two syllables:

  • Pre-Hispanic 'wi', which is Baybayin Wa.svg with a kudlit (marker) on top (like Baybayin Be.svg).
  • Hispanic-reform 'w', which is Baybayin Wa.svg with the virama (like Baybayin B.svg).

Hopefully I get to see one of these symbols on the new logo and, by extension, add some Philippine charm. --Sky Harbor 12:36, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

We had Baybayin script tagalog wi.svg What is that? bastique demandez! 19:54, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
Kind of unaware of that...it didn't look like a Baybayin 'wi'. I thought it looked like something else. Oh well. Thanks! --222.127.223.70 17:23, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

'Wi' in Sundanese script[edit]

Sundanese has a Sundanese script Wi-su.svg (for 'wi' or 'wa' if it is without the upper sign) which has already listed in Unicode. It would be an honour if this 'wi' or 'w' for 'Wikipedia' in Sundanese can be included in the logo. --Kandar 12:44, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit]

If I wanted to volunteer to create a digital 3D version of the current logo, how would I go about doing that? I have a knack for accuracy. I would primarily be focusing on a clean, scalable polygon topography. I wouldn't worry about the symbols until that's final. -IG-64 16:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Er... that's the whole point of this page. :-) The Foundation is planning on making a 3D version, which is why we are filling in the blank spaces. Cbrown1023 talk 23:13, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
Oh, ok. I was under the impression that this was sort of a volunteer project, I didn't know the Foundation was actually making one. -IG-64 01:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Ranjana script[edit]

Ranjana script is the main script to write Nepal Bhasa. However, as the unicode characterset of Ranjana is still under development, Nepal Bhasa is currently using Devnagari, another script which has been used to write Nepal Bhasa. Ranjana script will be used with Devnagari in Nepal Bhasa wikipedia once the unicode charactersets are developed. Hence, I think we can add Ranjana character "wi" given in the list for logo.--Eukesh 15:49, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Eukesh, if we can get an SVG version of this character, the same size and format as the other characters, I'll be happy to try to get it included. bastique demandez! 23:06, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Classical Chinese Wikipedia[edit]

「典」is the last character.

The name of Classical Chinese Wikipedia is written as 維基大典 (from left to right), however, character on the current logo appeared as 典大基維 (this is traditional way of writing direction from right to left). Therefore, the proposed character in the logo is not the first character of the Classical Chinese Wikipedia, the first character for Classical Chinese Wikipedia has been represented and included with the character「維」, I think it is fair that character「典」is to be removed and the space given other scripts for representation.--218.102.140.243 19:39, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

No, that's fine, we like this character too, and there is room for it on the globe. THanks, though! bastique demandez! 23:04, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

American indigenous languajes[edit]

Dear fellows. If it is needed, for hidden puzzle pieces, there are two American indigenous wikipedias that don't have "W" as firts letter: the Avañe'ẽ (Guaraní) Wikipedia ("V"), at South América, and the Nahuatl Wikipedia ("H"), at Center and North America. Take in consideration that there are not any American scripture in the current logo. Kind regards. Roblespepe (Wikipedia in Spanish),-- 08:46, 31 January 2009 (UTC).

PS: Specially the last one, because it's the only one that uses the "H" as first letter of the word "Wikipedia".--Roblespepe (Wikipedia in Spanish), 10:21, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
Or how about American indigenous languages with their own Script? Such as Ꮻ "wi" in Cherokee? Just a thought, Nesnad 17:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Top of the puzzle[edit]

Hello all. I'm the author of the redrawn SVG version of the logo I could integrate easily the corrections. But for the version that I have made, I have change something which was not talked here about the deep of the pieces on the right. Let's see the detail:

I will read all your observation with attention. Regards, Otourly 19:06, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Inherent limitations of the logo (re: adding new scripts)[edit]

I think it bears mention that unlike Wikipedia itself, which is theoretically infinite, the Globe logo is limited. Thus, the effort to include a letter from every script in which Wikipedia is or may one day be written is inherently unrealistic. The good news is that Wikipedia will continue to grow; languages that don't even exist now may one day have comprehensive versions. Of course, that doesn't make the logo any more accomodating. In sum: the best the logo can do is reflect the breadth of contributors not acutally include them. Since it already does this, I don't think the discussion can go much further without either scrapping the logo or drastically reducing the size of the pieces.

Another option would be to create a simpler logo that still captures the idea of the original logo, but is more visceral and to the point in terms of being a mediaglyph. If it were created as a vector image, it could also be easy to customize the logo on a per-language basis, by highlighting the wiki's native language. SharkD 06:23, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

[edit]

Hello, why the Arabic version of wikipedia, has baloons in its logo ? ar.wikipedia.org ... --LogicBloke 18:09, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

They've uploaded a 'celebratory' image at ar:File:Wiki.png, marking a 100,000 landmark; presumably 100,000 articles. It looks nice; we should do that more. Happymelon 18:15, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
it doesn't look nice to me, neither the backround, plus they have some unique ugly images, I guess they don't have good graphists --LogicBloke 18:22, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
They're background is pretty hideous, I agree; but I like the balloons. It's all a matter of personal taste, I guess... that's why we can never agree to do something like that on the larger wikis. Happymelon 18:28, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
A lot of wikis opt for celebratory logos, it just varies from community to community. Cbrown1023 talk 22:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

Devanagri 'wi'[edit]

The Devanagari 'wi' (वि) looks like र्व (rva). Could it be fixed? Manishearth 14:40, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Earth Wikipedia Ball[edit]

Why don't we make a Earth Wikipedia Ball with blue of sea, white of cloud, and some green of tree, about empty zone on north side, we can charge it become North Pole. What are you think?--Magicknight94 10:57, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Create a concept in Photoshop or Illustrator. Then we can consider it. SharkD 06:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

More alphabets![edit]

Klingon, Elvish, Cuneiform, Hieroglyphic, Runes and Wingdings :)

w i k i p
d
i A Y1
Here is the hieroglyphic form of "Wikipedia" for you. I think the "scroll" determinative suits best for the project. --HoremWeb 20:15, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Source code?[edit]

Where can I find the POV-Ray source code for the logo? Thanks. SharkD 05:20, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Why are we keeping the omega at all?[edit]

We have an Omega with tonos, Ώ, almost right in the centre of the image, ostensibly to represent Greek. But Greek Wikipedia, http://el.wikipedia.org/ , actually starts with Beta, Β, much like the Ve, В, at the beginning of the Cyrillic term as used in Russian Wikipedia, http://ru.wikipedia.org/ . Yes, both do look similar to the Latin be, B.

Above in Talk:Wikipedia/Logo#The_Cyrillic_symbol, we discuss the same issue with the Cyrillic I, И. It seems most apt to replace the majuscule Omega with a miniscule beta, β, or the internal version, ϐ, and to replace the majuscule I with an miniscule ve in italics, в, as both show a version of the character that the word "Wikipedia" begins with and yet both are clearly not used in English. Unfortunately initial miniscule beta resembles the eszett, ß, which is why the internal version may be preferable.

We are totally neglecting the Uyghur alphabet, and the v, ۋ, Wikipedia begins with on http://ug.wikipedia.org/ . This is a notable absence because Uyghur is used on w:renminbi banknotes. Warmest Regards, :)--thecurran Speak your mind my past 05:15, 2 January 2010 (UTC)

All letters are used in Wikipedia transliteration (maybe some letters aren't the first letter, but still they are in the transliterations) apart from Ω. This letter isn't used at all in the greek transliteration (Βικιπαίδεια). I can only guess that the first attempts to tranlate wikipedia in greek would be ℧ικιπαίδεια=Ουικιπαίδεια a minor transliteration that isn't used. (℧ was used as ου some decades ago in greek but it is obsolete nowadays). If we want to represent the first letters of some languages then we sould replace Ω with Β. --Περίεργος (talk) 07:23, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

[edit]

Where are the votes for the new logo? The changes are pretty big for a simple "consensus". — Jeblad 12:51, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

No vote, Wikipedia is a trademark of the WMF. But this logo won't be the new one finally. Otourly 07:48, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Note: See current discussion at commons:Talk:Wikipedia/2.0‎#Logo revisions need input and below. Quiddity 22:07, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Javanese[edit]

Hoi, Javanese has its characters in Unicode.. What is needed is a font. GerardM 20:17, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

More puzzle pieces to support more writing styles[edit]

As above link shows a lot of languages are not represented in the logo. One not mentioned is Turkish. While Turkish uses the Latin alphabet it does not have the letter 'W' and the Turkish localization of the word "Wikipedia" is "Vikipedi". Perhaps the 'W' could be replaced with a 'V' or 'V' be added as a separate puzzle piece. -- とある白い猫 chi? 20:53, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Khmer font[edit]

Hi, I would like to request for changing Khmer font in official Wikipedia logo (in the future version). This វិ character is taken from Khmer Wikipedia's logo and it's better than the existing.

អក្សរ «វិ» ដាក់​ស្នើ​សម្រាប់ logo វិគីភីឌា ។
@Odder: PiRSquared17 (talk) 03:53, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
@PiRSquared17: If I understand this correctly, the request is about changing a character in all Wikipedia logos, perhaps in a future version 3 of the logo. Currently, we are using the Khmer character វិ (vô + ĭ), but it appears to be turned on its side, which isn't exactly a good situation. That said, this definitely above my paygrade, so perhaps we should contact the WMF about this error. I'm taking the liberty to alert @Heatherawalls to this discussion. odder (talk) 09:23, 13 January 2014 (UTC)

3D model[edit]

Is the 3D model available anywhere? Not anything import, just interested. PiRSquared17 (talk) 05:20, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Maybe you came across these pages, but for what it's worth; wmfblog:2010/05/13/wikipedia-in-3d/, wmf:Wikimedia official marks/About the official Marks & en:Logo of Wikipedia --Glaisher [talk] 17:45, 20 February 2014 (UTC)