Requests for new languages/Wikivoyage Urdu

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main page Request for a new language edition: Wikivoyage Urdu
submitted verification final decision
Discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Votes will be ignored when judging the proposal. Please provide arguments or reasons and be prepared to defend them (see the Language proposal policy).

The language committee needs to verify the language is eligible to be approved.

  • Check that the project does not already exist (see list).
  • Obtain an ISO 639 code
  • Ensure the requested language is sufficiently unique that it could not exist on a more general wiki.
  • Ensure that there are a sufficient number of native editors of that language to merit an edition in that language.
  • The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
  • The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
  • The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:
What Value Example / Explanation
Proposal
Language code ur (SILEthnologue) A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name Urdu Language name in English
Language name اردو Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item Q1617 - item has currently the following values:
  • en label = Urdu
  • native label (P1705) = اردو, اُردُو‎‎ (Urdū)
  • instance/subclass (P31/P279) = language, modern language / Hindustani, Hindi languages
  • Wikimedia language code (P424) = ur
  • writing system (P282) = Arabic alphabet, Urdu alphabet
  • number of speakers (P1098) = 68,619,830, 94,022,900


Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Community * عثمان خان شاہ (talk) (N)-
Links Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Settings
Project name ویکی سفرنامہ "Wikivoyage" in your language
Project namespace ویکی سفرنامہ usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace تبادلۂ خیال ویکی سفرنامہ "Wikivoyage talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads yes Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons.
If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin").
Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo File:Wikivoyage urdu logo.png 135x135 PNG derivative from a decent SVG image (instructions)
Default project timezone Asia/Islamabad "Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces For example for a Wikisource which would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk"
Additional settings Anything else that should be set
submit phabricator task (includes everything automatically, except additional namespaces/settings)

Proposal[edit]

Very respectly, I propose here to giving a chance for the Urdu Wikivoyage, that is active in Wikimedia Incubator and ready to have its own domain. There are many articles, many new edits and pages every day. Wikivoyage will be very helpful for Pakistanis and other Urdu speakers who mostly traveling to country by country in search of Job,education,etc.

Further I would like to tell about Urdu that is a Language mostly spoken by Pakistanis,Indians and the overseas South-Asian people. Urdu is one of the two forms of Hindustani Language (the other being Hindi),the Hindustani language has 240 million native speakers and 240 million second language speakers, who speak it alongside their local mother tongue. Urdu is used extensively as a first language by Pakistanis and Indians in urban areas, and as a second language by those residing in more rural parts of Pakistan as well as India. I hope Pakistani and other Urdu speaking visitors can understand to using Wikivoyage with local languange, also presenting Pakistani culture to the world. --عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 17:03, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Argument[edit]

Support[edit]

  • Weak Support - Definitely a major world language, which means that the project has great potential to flourish, however I must point out that currently there is not very much content nor community yet. However, since the project is still very new, things could change very rapidly. I support the creation of this project in the long term, just not in the short term. Abrahamic Faiths (talk) 17:15, 15 January 2015 (UTC)
  • 100 content is a good start. I would say Support. Bennylin 12:21, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support. Muhammad Shuaib (talk) 08:09, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support.--Obaid Raza (talk) 09:32, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support Ameen Akbar (talk) 14:00, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support --Muzammil (talk) 19:09, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support -- محمد مجیب (talk) 06:32, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support --Irfan Arshad (talk) 07:48, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Urdu is one of the most important languages --2.145.82.100 00:18, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support --Rehmat Aziz Chitrali 18:01, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support -- Every journey is started with a small and single step..... Hence no reason to not accept. Ahmed Nisar (talk) 07:35, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Very useful to this language community. --Sarvaturi (talk) 16:11, 25 September 2015 (UTC)
  • Strong Support --~MMGJ~ (talk) 12:59, 26 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Support Urdu is active language in wikipedia , and wikivoyage insha-allah --AFlorence (talk) 06:03, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
  • Support --夢蝶葬花@生涯不敗 00:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Oppose[edit]

I appreciate the efforts that Usman putting to start Urdu edition of Wikivoyage but I've some concerns. For the record I'm administrator on English Wikivoyage and native speaker of Urdu. Though the number of speakers of Urdu is huge but everyone here (Muhammad Shuaib, Obaid Raza, Ameen Akbar, Muzammil) knows and will admit that we do not have that much active editors on Urdu Wikipedia. On Urdu Wikivoyage, so far we've only one dedicated editor (Usman). On the other hand, the quality of the articles that he created are not reasonable enough and not upto standard of Wikivoyage. I saw the encylopediac content that he borrowing from Urdu Wikipedia and that too, without giving proper attribution. On English Wikivoyage, we strongly discourage copying content from Wikipedia because Wikivoyage is not an encylopedia. As of now, I'm the only active editor on English Wikivoyage from Pakistan so I doubt Urdu Wikivoyage would be able to bring in volunteers and flourish. Also, those interested to start Urdu Wikivoyage have to first understand the Wikivoyage policies and guidelines and fimiliar themselves with them in order to affectively run Urdu Wikivoyage. So in my humble opinion, the community first should come up with strong volunteer base for Urdu Wikivoyage and then consider starting this project otherwise I can imagine it would become inactive very soon. The existing projects in Urdu language such as Wikibooks, Wikitionary, and Wikiqoute are far from really active. Also, I request Usman to avoid asking people to support this request. That is against the rules. So anyways Usman, I hope you'll understand my concerns and this opposition will not let you down. I invite you to English Wikivoyage and get yourself familiar with how a travel guide should be written. --Saqib (talk) 22:52, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Discussion[edit]

Saqib's input gives me one idea - Can there be a training session for Wikivoyage for the language? I suggest him to take the lead. Like any outreach, here too you'll find many new persons, sometimes people who are totally new to Wiki Culture. Usman and others help people being educated with Wiki code. --Muzammil (talk) 08:04, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Muzammil, also please note that currently Urdu Wikivoyage doesn't have a single page which state policy or guideline. Regarding training session, I'm afraid I won't be able to lead anything at the moment. I'm planning a Wikimedia outreach event due to which I'm not being able to give proper time to English Wikivoyage as well. --Saqib (talk) 12:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

We Must Support[edit]

Dear Saqib, I think we must support and help to flourish a separate Wikivoyage and other Urdu projects. You, me and and some other people can work on any project in English language, but mostly wikipedian can not work in English. For such guys we must provide platform in their native language. As for as policy guidelines, you can better guide us. For technical support admins of Urdu wikipedia are here. Further i believe, project with proper sub domain grow faster then in incubator. Usman's call for support showing his commitment toward Urdu Wikivohage.Ameen Akbar (talk) 12:44, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

Well I've no issue if you still want to have Urdu edition of Wikivoyage. You said "mostly wikipedian can not work in English". I don't agree with you on this. Do you know 95% of traffic to Wikipedia from Pakistan goes to English Wikipedia? Recently I have done Wikipedia readers survey for Pakistan and soon I will publish it. You'll got to find some interesting information. Anyways, I presented my concerns and I clearly stated that I won't be able to help out with Urdu Wikivoyage at the moment. At some point, if we may have more volunteer base, I will offcourse happy to join in and help develop Urdu Wikivoyage. So still if guys think that its important to have a new project in Urdu, please go for it. But please remember having Wikivoyage in Urdu bring some responsibilities. Policy enforcing and moderation should be done to ensure the credibility of Wikivoyage maintained. Regarding policy guideliness, you can always join English Wikivoyage and learn some basic policies we have. I'm always there to answer questions the community will have. In my opinion, moving site out of incubator at this stage is too early. First we should develop the site and and then it should be moved to full fledged site. BTW have you guys seen the pages that we have on this site? Mostly are one liner pages. Seems like a dictionary. Other are whole sale copy paste of encylopediac content from Urdu Wikipedia. --Saqib (talk) 13:32, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
I absolutely Agree with Ameen Akbar,domain grow faster than in incubator.If Wikimedia create this project you will see the rapid growing of users in Urdu Wikivoyage. My proposal is not for Personal purposes,It is only for the benefit of Pakistanis and other Urdu speakers who need to be guided.Further, I did not see any Wikimedia policy that "You can't call peoples for support".And one thing more that I started deleting all the contents pasted from Urdu Wikipedia on Wikivoyage pages. So that you stop always saying that Usman have copy-pasted the content from Wikipedia.--عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 16:46, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Dear, you've to familiar yourself with policies before running a brand new wiki on your own. See Canvassing. Regarding Urdu Wikivoyage. I will be waiting to see how your address my concerns rather than simply stating again that Urdu Wikivoyage is necessary. Regarding copy paste material from Urdu Wikipedia, I appreciate that you now deleting it. I hope you be able to write some unique content for Urdu Wikivoyage by translating stuff from English Wikivoyage.--Saqib (talk) 17:19, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Dear Saqib bro, U tortured my feeling and passion for Working on Urdu Wikivoyage, but Anyway Saqib, I believe in freedom of speech, I want to ask a quetion: Is it allowed to translate the English Wikivoyage to Urdu Wikivoyage, or it is Against policies?
Usman, please don't be so emotional. sorry to say but your comments are very childish and this one was very inappropriate because its sound politica. Anyways, yes you can always translate content as I said earlier. --Saqib (talk) 17:57, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Saqib. I was emotional because I was working hard day and night, but Instead of appreciating ,you said that I am doing wrong. This is why I was so emotional.--عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 18:01, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Well I always appreciated you Usman. But at the same time I raise my concerns and pointed out to issues that need to be resolved. I support for quality not for quantity so please don't be disappointed. My best wishes to you. --Saqib (talk) 18:08, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
OKAY! I'll keep in mind .I am focusing on translating important pages like Karachi to Urdu,And hope other community member will help.--عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 19:52, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
What wrong with you Usman? Why you altering my comment? --Saqib (talk) 19:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Again You want to get blocked? --Saqib (talk) 19:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
I removed the link because I posted that comment only to you and you are showing it to all the Why.why?--عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 19:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Yes because that is relevant here and so everyone knows your behaviour. The next time you alter my comment, I will report it to admin. --Saqib (talk) 19:57, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Okay --عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 20:00, 20 January 2015 (UTC)keep continue
You also altered the comment made by User:Bennylin. Very funny! --Saqib (talk) 20:01, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I removed that I think now you will feel good.But Mr.Saqib tell me one thing How many time will the eligibility process will take?--عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 20:04, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

It may take years unless you address the concerns I have raised. Anyways I don't have time to discuss anymore with you over this. --Saqib (talk) 20:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
Don't worry, Your concerns will be addressed.--عثمان خان شاہ (talk) 20:13, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

We created 200+ articles only in four days, We will soon achieve target of 500

Sure. Also I' would like to make a request here that Usman shouldn't get sole admin rights over Urdu Wikivoyage until he improve his bahaviour. Instead an experienced editor from Urdu Wikipedia should be given the responsibilites if and when the site goes live. Admins with such behaviour could potentially damage the credibility of site. Also see his correspondance with me on English Wikivoyage. And His user talk page on Wikivoyage. --Saqib (talk) 20:22, 20 January 2015 (UTC)
He's blocked on English Wikivoyage and I've made a request on Meta-Wiki to block him due to this. --Saqib (talk) 21:15, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

I think We will soon achieve the 500 Wikivoyage in Urdu and then 1000 articles in a few months So the Project should be started--178.73.107.28 00:53, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Calm down please and consider this suggestion[edit]

Usman has tendered apology on a different project. I request Saqib to plz take back the request on Meta-Wiki to block him. One thing I would like to state is none of us are born-Wikimedians. We learnt the Wiki code and became part of Wiki culture.

Saqib knows a lot about Wikivoyage. I appreciate it. I asked him for outreach support to which he says he's in no position to invest time @ the moment. I request him to plz help us by preparing some groundwork. This could be in the a set of PPT and PDF files educating people on what Wikivoyage is and what it is not.

All of us, including me, Usman and others can benefit from these.

I suggest Usman and some other persons to then volunteer for outreach activities in the light of the available documents. Let me share my experience of hand-holding Undergraduate Christ University students, Bangalore, India for editing Wikipedia in Hindi,Kannada, Sanskrit, Tamil and Urdu. Here is the Project Page on Meta.

We held several several workshops, prepared video tutorials (in Hindi and Kannada) and had a full time Wikipedia Help Desk there.

The result was that 1600 students participated in the editathon event with the largest chunk of 600 students for Hindi and only 6 students for Urdu (Urdu has very few students on roll in the university. The Department may be wound off in the coming years).

Can we not plan something for Wikivoyage on the similar lines?

I request everyone to please come out with suggestions and volunteering options rather than just criticism. --Muzammil (talk) 05:34, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Muzammil: Actually these days I'm busy with a project with National Assembly so honestly speaking won't be able to help with this. I may able to work on this in March. Until then, Usman and others can simply translate the content that we have on English edition. But still if you guys are in hurry, I invite some experienced editors to English Wikivoyage where community including me will be happy to assist you guys and help in crafting customized policy and guidelines for Urdu Wikivoyage. And Muzammil, I apprciate the efforts of you guys in India for Urdu Wikipedia but in Pakistan, we don't have a support system and the community is not well organised so its not easy for us to organise outreach events. Other than that, please be note Usman is outside of Pakistan and is very young. Anyways, I'll remove his comments from English Wikivoyage so no more worries for him. --Saqib (talk) 10:09, 21 January 2015 (UTC)

Way ahead[edit]

  • Guidelines from some experienced editors of English Wikivoyage to help in crafting customized policy and guidelines for Urdu Wikivoyage, as suggested by Saqib.
  • Support from Saqib in preparing some groundwork. This could be in the a set of PPT and PDF files educating people on what Wikivoyage is and what it is not - not immediately but in March as promised by him above. --Muzammil (talk) 06:02, 22 January 2015 (UTC)