User talk:Ironholds

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Welcome to Meta![edit]

Hello Ironholds, and welcome to the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki! This website is for coordinating and discussing all Wikimedia projects. You may find it useful to read our policy page. If you are interested in doing translations, visit Meta:Babylon. You can also leave a note on Meta:Babel or Meta:Metapub (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). If you would like, feel free to ask me questions on my talk page. Happy editing!

--Cato 19:15, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia Travel Guide: Naming poll open[edit]

Hi there,

You are receiving this message because you voiced your opinion at the Request for Comment on the Wikimedia Travel Guide.

The proposed naming poll opened a few days ago and you can vote for as many of the proposed names as you wish, if you are eligible. Please see Travel Guide/Naming Process for full details on voting eligibility and how the final name will be selected. Voting will last for 14 days, and will terminate on 16 October at 06:59:59 UTC.

Thanks, Thehelpfulone 21:56, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Working Wikipedian's Barnstar[edit]

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Thank you for all of your work and travel that supports Wikimedia. --Pine 21:24, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Calling other people 'cunts'[edit]

See this. Unbelievable and outrageous. Peter Damian (talk) 08:32, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Upcoming IdeaLab Events: IEG Proposal Clinics[edit]

Idea Lab
Idea Lab

Hello, Ironholds! We've added Events to IdeaLab, and you're invited :)

Upcoming events focus on turning ideas into Individual Engagement Grant proposals before the March 31 deadline. Need help or have questions about IEG? Join us at a Hangout:

  • Thursday, 13 March 2014, 1600 UTC
  • Wednesday, 19 March 2014, 1700 UTC
  • Saturday, 29 March 2014, 1700 UTC

Hope to see you there!

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I'm confused as to what you are doing here. If memory serves me well, you are currently a staff member - (researcher, liaison, whatever). But you are commenting on the community engagement page, adding trivial points without a signature. You don't seem to be using your staff account but your personal account, while other staff members in similar capacity are using their staff accounts. Either way, I'd like you to clarify there. If you are stating your personal opinion as a community member than there is some COI since this directly affects your role, if you are adding information as a staff member, you should be using your staff account. I think everyone would like to see more delineation in those two roles. Theo10011 (talk) 11:18, 20 August 2014 (UTC)

Now deliniated, although I'd ask that you be (however you'd better interpret it) either less blunt or more civil. Describing someone's contributions as "trivial points" while opening a conversation that asks them to do something is usually the wrong way to go about it. Ironholds (talk) 22:01, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
No. I prefer being blunt occasionally. Civil however, I was. The only thing you are objecting against is me calling your edits "trivial points" - assuming I could have been referring to any one of the six edits that you did make, my point was still an opinion that I am entitled to. I believe I can still remain civil while expressing those opinion. I found the idea of that page quite useless. Theo10011 (talk) 08:10, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Certainly, you're entitled to the opinion - when did I say you weren't? - but equally, I'm entitled to the opinion that your way of opening this conversation was inefficient when it came to actually achieving what you came here to achieve. Anyway: the problem you surfaced is resolved. FWIW, I didn't create the page and am not further participating in its development or the underlying process, so communicating your opinion of it to me isn't going to achieve much of anything for either of us. Ironholds (talk) 14:55, 21 August 2014 (UTC)
Cool. Theo10011 (talk) 15:00, 21 August 2014 (UTC)


Thanks for reverting that. That was an embarrassingly bad joke. PCHS-NJROTC (talk) 18:50, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Improper delete of my comments:[edit]

On what basis did you delete my comments? You make a reference to "Please review our friendly spaces policy. "people like [user]...endorse racism" is a violation of it)" I am unable to find any WP:Friendly spaces policy. Pleas explain why you deleted my comments and how they violated some policy.[[1]] EditorASC (talk) 19:55, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Certainly; I deleted your comments because they violated Grants:IdeaLab/Friendly space, which is the set of behavioural expectations applied to the IdeaLab, linked at the top of the page you were editing. It violated this policy, which mandates polite and reasonable behaviour and prohibits "offensive comments related to...political affiliation", with the section starting "In a little more than one century..", which claimed that I and people "like [me]" endorsed "repugnant" discrimination analogous to the Jim Crow legislation. Ironholds (talk) 20:00, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
That policy page is quite ambiguous and speaks in terms of glittering generalities that can be interpreted just about any way that one wants, if they don't like the opinions expressed by anther editor, which seems to me to be what you have done there by reverting me entirely, instead of tweaking a few words you did not like. I note that you brag about campaigning for Liberal Democrats in the elections. That tells me an awful lot about why you deleted my comments which obviously rankled you. Frankly, I think you are using your own political bias as grounds for misusing the powers of your office at Wikipeda. If that doesn't amount to "unfriendly" action, I don't know what does.
I will tweak the wording a bit, so you won't have any excuse for claiming you are doing the right thing by deleting my comments. But, don't expect me to not oppose affirmative action policies, when they do deny opportunity to some BECAUSE OF their race, ethnicity or gender. Such policies clearly amount to racial or gender discrimination, and it is ALWAYS wrong. EditorASC (talk) 22:12, 23 March 2015 (UTC)
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar; you'd have more of a claim if enforcing the friendly space guidelines hadn't been a consistent pattern of mine. Which, it has been. And, it's not bragging, it's descriptive of how I spent my time at university - eight thousand miles and five years away. I'd note that the only person bringing up historic politics here is you, which is..well, I'd ask you to actually stay on topic. Ironholds (talk) 00:19, 24 March 2015 (UTC)

Please fill out our Inspire campaign survey[edit]

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Thank you for participating in the Wikimedia Inspire campaign during March 2015!

Please take our short survey and share your experience during the campaign.

Many thanks,

Jmorgan (WMF) (talk), on behalf of the IdeaLab team.

23:34, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

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Community discussion on harassment reporting[edit]

There are many current proposals as part of the 2015 Inspire Campaign related to harassment management. I’ve created a page, Grants:IdeaLab/Community discussion on harassment reporting meant to serve as a central space where the various stakeholders in these proposals and other community members can discuss which methods might serve our community best so that we can unify our ideas into collective action. I encourage you to join the conversation and contribute your ideas!OR drohowa (talk) 02:13, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Ironholds (talk) 02:58, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

How can we improve Wikimedia grants to support you better?[edit]

Hi! The Wikimedia Foundation would like your input on how we can reimagine Wikimedia Foundation grants to better support people and ideas in your Wikimedia project.

After reading the Reimagining WMF grants idea, we ask you to complete this survey to help us improve the idea and learn more about your experience. When you complete the survey, you can enter to win one of five Wikimedia globe sweatshirts!

In addition to taking the the survey, you are welcome to participate in these ways:

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Last call for WMF grants feedback![edit]

Hi, this is a reminder that the consultation about Reimagining WMF grants is closing on 8 September (0:00 UTC). We encourage you to complete the survey now, if you haven't yet done so, so that we can include your ideas.

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As other people told you, it's not appropriate nor acceptable on Meta to tell people to shut up. Please be more considerate.

If your disagreement with other people in Meta-Wiki discussions makes you nervous and uncivil, I suggest you solve for this by not joining them, which won't be much of a struggle. That wouldn't be nice, right? --Nemo 17:49, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

Indeed; I've stepped out of that discussion precisely to avoid the kind of toxicity that gets thrown around and how much easier it makes it for me to be uncivil. I don't like being that kind of person. Ironholds (talk) 20:26, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

What future IdeaLab campaigns would you like to see?[edit]

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Hi there,

I’m Jethro, and I’m seeking your help in deciding topics for new IdeaLab campaigns that could be run starting next year. These campaigns aim to bring in proposals and solutions from communities that address a need or problem in Wikimedia projects. I'm interested in hearing your preferences and ideas for campaign topics!

Here’s how to participate:

Take care,

I JethroBT (WMF), Community Resources, Wikimedia Foundation. 03:34, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Future IdeaLab Campaigns results[edit]

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Last December, I invited you to help determine future ideaLab campaigns by submitting and voting on different possible topics. I'm happy to announce the results of your participation, and encourage you to review them and our next steps for implementing those campaigns this year. Thank you to everyone who volunteered time to participate and submit ideas.

With great thanks,

I JethroBT (WMF), Community Resources, Wikimedia Foundation. 23:55, 26 January 2016 (UTC)

Harassment workshop[edit]

Greetings! You are receiving this message because, at some point in the past, you have participated in a discussion around the topic of harassment. The Support and Safety team is holding a series of consultations gathering feedback on the best potential solutions to the problem. The next stage is a workshop where we hope to narrow the focus to individual actionable ideas and explore how to bring some of these ideas to life.

Best regards, the Support and Safety team via MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:35, 17 February 2016 (UTC)

Again against minorities?[edit]

Again you raise your fist against a volunteer expressing a minority view? It seems to me that wikimedia-l does not lack people defending WMF staff right now (it's very good that dozens of WMF staffers are speaking in public, indeed), I don't see a need to attack those two or three volunteers who express a different view. Nemo 11:23, 21 February 2016 (UTC)

Nemo, if you've been following Anthony's contributions in this space and in others you'll see a constant attitude of "Lila is just getting rid of dead wood". I happen to quite like some of Lila's changes, but what I do not like is to hear Siko, Luis and others described as dead wood; the insistence that if people are leaving because of Lila's changes, well, they probably should leave because the organisation's employees are bad at their jobs. It's offensive; it's also, in its own way, attacking. I have no problem with people expressing support for Lila (or any of the other volunteers, or staff, expressing support); I have a problem with people who look at a situation that has a lot of people hurting, a lot of people leaving because they just can't take it any more, and respond with attacks on staff and former staff like "Your surfacing here and on the Wikipedia Weekly Facebook page is creepy and unbecoming. You are largely responsible for the shambles Lila inherited. We haven't forgotten the contempt with which you treated us when you were in control at WMF. What are you trying to achieve here? Have you been stirring the shit in the background, drumming up this coup?" I note that you haven't criticised him for his approach.
Again, people could do with a lot more asking questions, and a lot less "so this is how the world is, speaking from outside the tent". I appreciate it's not an easy thing to do; it is, in a weirdly humorous way, aided by the fact that the population of staffers being criticised so much for a lack of responsibility or a lack of contribution are being so responsible in not making very clear all of the things that have been causing concerns inside the organisation. Ironholds (talk) 14:39, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
I know who he is, but that just makes for an ad hominem personal attack. Nemo 17:37, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
I've said nothing about his person, merely things about his statements. Again, I have no problems with people disagreeing. I have a lot of problems with people disagreeing in a way that dismisses the lived experiences of others. Anthony has actually accepted this and we're moving on; perhaps you should too? Ironholds (talk) 17:49, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
What on earth are you talking about Ironholds? Everything from "creepy and unbecoming...." takes a nosedive to ".....drumming up this coup?" makes it seem like you have been in an altered reality. No one said those things, no one implied it - it's just you projecting your insecurities.
I'm not sure what you think happens in the real world - but people have opinions about employees of almost every organisation or company. Everyone from a barista at Starbucks to even the president is judged on their performance daily (even when they are "hurting", actually, especially when they are "hurting"). Opinions make them out to be incompetent, bad or awesome hundred times over - it's all subjective.
I'm not sure if Nemo and the rest need to get "this is how the world is", maybe you've been in a bubble too long yourself? Anyway. This reminded me of deadwood.....(should re-watch). Theo10011 (talk) 19:36, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
@Theo10011: you know how those bits are in quote marks? It's because they're a quote. So, yes, someone did say those things, and how outlandish they sound is entirely the point of my argument. And if you can't see the difference between legitimate criticism and comments like the one I was quoting, and the difference in what it does to the recipient, well, that's your problem to deal with.
I've already offered to have a conversation about differences of opinion in these spaces, but such a conversation requires good faith, and your comment here - which calls me insecure, living in a bubble, and living in an altered reality - utterly, utterly lacks it. I expect you to either apologise or get off my talkpage and stay off it. Ironholds (talk) 21:17, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

This was cute, but this isn't en.wp. My name is not "Theodore" just like yours isn't "moron". Any reference to me beyond Theo or Theo10011 would be tantamount to outing and would be grounds to OS. I expect an apology now. As for removing or editing someone else's, it is discouraged on meta, let's see what happens if you try that again. Theo10011 (talk) 13:29, 25 February 2016 (UTC)

I apologise for referring to you as "Theodore", which, I'd point out, is clearly not an outing risk given that it's a term you've just used. If you're now satisfied, having called me a lunatic and a moron, please stay away from me. I find our interactions frustrating and unproductive, and have no wish to engage in them. You can disregard the email I just sent you: it's readily apparent that moving forward is not something you're interested in doing. Ironholds (talk) 13:34, 25 February 2016 (UTC)


Congratulations for your new job! Some change after 5 years will be healthy for you (I hope). Nemo 17:37, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I'm certainly looking forward to a lot of things about being a volunteer again. Ironholds (talk) 17:51, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Inspire Campaign on content curation & review[edit]


I've recently launched an Inspire Campaign to encourage new ideas focusing on content review and curation in Wikimedia projects. Wikimedia volunteers collaboratively manage vast repositories of knowledge, and we’re looking for your ideas about how to manage that knowledge to make it more meaningful and accessible. We invite you to participate and submit ideas, so please get involved today! The campaign runs until March 28th.

All proposals are welcome - research projects, technical solutions, community organizing and outreach initiatives, or something completely new! Funding is available from the Wikimedia Foundation for projects that need financial support. Constructive feedback on ideas is welcome - your skills and experience can help bring someone else’s project to life. Join us at the Inspire Campaign to improve review and curation tasks so that we can make our content more meaningful and accessible! I JethroBT (WMF) 05:39, 29 February 2016 (UTC)

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Open Call for Individual Engagement Grants[edit]

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Greetings! The Individual Engagement Grants (IEG) program is accepting proposals until April 12th to fund new tools, research, outreach efforts, and other experiments that enhance the work of Wikimedia volunteers. Whether you need a small or large amount of funds (up to $30,000 USD), IEGs can support you and your team’s project development time in addition to project expenses such as materials, travel, and rental space.

With thanks, I JethroBT (WMF), Community Resources 15:56, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Participate in the Inspire Campaign and help address harassment![edit]

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Through June, we’re organizing an Inspire Campaign to encourage and support new ideas focusing on addressing harassment toward Wikimedia contributors. The 2015 Harassment Survey has shown evidence that harassment in various forms - name calling, threats, discrimination, stalking, and impersonation, among others - is pervasive. Available methods and systems to deal with harassment are also considered to be ineffective. These behaviors are clearly harmful, and in addition, many individuals who experience or witness harassment participate less in Wikimedia projects or stop contributing entirely.

Proposals in any language are welcome during the campaign - research projects, technical solutions, community organizing and outreach initiatives, or something completely new! Funding is available from the Wikimedia Foundation for projects that need financial support. Constructive feedback on ideas is appreciated, and collaboration is encouraged - your skills and experience may help bring someone else’s project to life. Join us at the Inspire Campaign so that we can work together to develop ideas around this important and difficult issue. With thanks,

I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 17:47, 31 May 2016 (UTC) (Opt-out instructions)