User talk:I JethroBT (WMF)

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SpBot archives all sections tagged with {{Section resolved|1=~~~~}} after 14 days. For the archive overview, see User talk:I JethroBT (WMF)/Archive.

Grants: IdeaLab/Find it on Wikipedia!!![edit]

Hi Chris,

I have made changes to my project based on our discussions. I would appreciate it if you look at it and tell me what you think.

Also, i noticed that the icon: "Expand into a Rapid Grant" is still showing even after I have  applying. Is this normal?

--41.190.14.21 00:18, 13 March 2018 (UTC)

PROBLEM[edit]

Hi I JethroBT (WMF), I'm not glad about missing in the BAR-WP about the Vorlog:Navigationsleiste Gemeinden im Arrondissement Angers. Are you able to correct this Vorlog via program? Always I must delete this and I think, it's too much work for my colleague. Because deleting this Vorlog, it will'nt shown all the Gemeinden im Arrondissement Angers. Please look at the DE-WP because you can see, what I mean. It's better this will shown too in the BAR-WP, because I had a total overview to add all/the most articles again to ensure growth the BAR-WP. Thanks for positive answer, hoping zu can it do. Best regards -- Drahdiwaberling (talk) 22:25, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

@Drahdiwaberling: I'm afraid I don't quite understand what your request is. It sounds like there is a navigation template (Vorlog:Navigationsleiste Gemeinden im Arrondissement Angers) that is missing on bar.wikipedia.org, and you would like to have it created there. It also sounds like something else needs to be deleted, and that this is related to some discussion or event on de.wikipedia.org, but I'm not sure what needs to be deleted or what thing on de.wikipedia you're referring to. Can you explain in a little more detail? Thanks, I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2018 (UTC)
O.k., I give you an example. Looking in the DE-WP at de:Opština Pećinci and you can see at this site below: Gemeinden im serbischen Bezirk SremInđija | Irig | de:Pećinci | Ruma | de:Šid | de:Sremska Mitrovica | de:Stara Pazova. This dates will not be shown in the BAR-WP, because it will be shown this: Vorlog:Navigationsleiste Gemeinden im Bezirk Srem. Because I should always delete this, you can't see the dates as shown above. When you can see it (as example) I could edit immediately as all new articles. I think, correcting the Vorlog as above is much effort for the administrator. The BAR-WP have only two or three...Best regards -- Drahdiwaberling (talk) 05:19, 18 April 2018 (UTC)
The task of replacing one template with another sounds like something that can be done with the de:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser, but I'm not familiar with how it works myself. There is an IRC channel (#AutoWikiBrowserconnect) if you need help from folks who know how to use the software. Unfortunately, WMF Staff generally aren't permitted to modify article or other editorial project content, even navigational templates. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 23:48, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

Im lost: Inspire or Inspirer ?[edit]

Hi, I am a bit lost on whether to translate or not the names with a capital. As it is said along pages, trade marks and product names are not translated. Application names: I have found mixed cases. But what for event names ? - what is the rule for translation in this case please ? Thank you.

@Wladek92: Thanks for your question. Keeping the name "Inspire" is generally correct. However, concerning French translations, there were members of the French Wikimedian community who objected to the term "Inspire" last year because of the term's association with a publication related to the militant Islamist organization, fr:Al-Qaïda dans la péninsule arabique (AQAP). A few members had suggested the alternative "Inspirer" which roughly captures the same meaning, so this exception seemed appropriate to me. I'm not sure if the term's association to the organization is still strong, but I would prefer using the term Inspirer in this case. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 22:52, 19 July 2018 (UTC)

Ok, so I will use french word to keep coherence. But according to this point of view, other languages should also adopt a local translation - and it does not seem to be the case; ex: in German: Inspire-Kampagnen sind Diskussionsforen von der Dauer.... Do you confirm it is a specific case due to the events ?

@Wladek92: Another term is probably not necessary in other languages. I think this was a special case where the term Inspire had a dominant negative connotation for enough people in the French community, but this association is weak or nonexistent in other language communities. I am comfortable for there to be a little variation in how the name is translated in some language, but a separate term is not needed for each language. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 09:36, 20 July 2018 (UTC)

Grants:IdeaLab/Wikademy[edit]

Hi, I was just wondering where I should go next with this project? It's a pretty big undertaking, and I don't know really where to go to find the users I need to help me. Thanks in advance! -- Sleyece (talk) 00:07, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Your opinion, please...[edit]

IdeaLab/FINDING collaborators is an uphill battle...

Thank you! All the Best! Shir-El too 12:48, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Idea[edit]

Hello and thank you for all that you do. I 'registered' an idea for editor retention. Would you mind taking a look and let me know if I wrote it up correctly? Best Regards, Barbara (WVS) (talk) 14:30, 21 July 2018 (UTC)

Please[edit]

look at Grants:IdeaLab/Administrating the adminstrators.As much as I approach WMF's ever-constant-goal to improve community health, we can do significantly better than allowing a check-user blocked troll, to give ideas on the issue of administrating the administrators.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 07:47, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

For record, stopped edit-warring and promised to stop socking is a claim to garner some sympathy (his en-wiki t/p consists of several edit-warring blocks and denied unblock-appeals, bordering on frivolous wiki-lawyering and as to the CU block, he did never admit to it).Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 07:51, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

And, honestly, you folks need to understand that criticism is very much necessary and you don't need to shove the opposes to the t/p, to lend a feel-good look to the main-grants-page.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 07:51, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I've moved the idea out of the campaign because it's unclear how the idea is related to measurement. In terms of preventing the idea from being submitted, I don't know what options would have been feasible. Blocking the editor from contributing to the campaign would have required blocking the editor on Meta. I'm not permitted to do that, and as far as I know, a global block generally requires the editor to be blocked on multiple Wikimedia projects, and even then, it doesn't always happen. Speaking more generally outside of this case, trying to ascertain how believable or sincere the person's claims is subjective and requires context and this is not easy to ascertain based on an idea or a block on its own. Being blocked on a project also does not render everything you do or say as being frivolous.
you folks need to understand that criticism is very much necessary and you don't need to shove the opposes to the t/p, to lend a feel-good look to the main-grants-page.
I realize that submissions to IdeaLab and Inspire Campaigns do not operate like RfCs where support/oppose are centralized in one place-- this is intentional. I know it is easy to believe the goal is to create a "feel good" atmosphere, but that's a poor way to describe the rationale. Criticism almost always results in discussion around clarification, changes to the idea, or some other kind of back-and-forth, whereas agreement typically does not. The main page is to describe the idea and to have an idea of who supports it, why, and how they want to support it. Here is a perspective you should consider about why criticism is moved: During a previous campaign on addressing harassment, people would aggressively push their opposition of many ideas or distaste about the campaign in general, and it led many idea creators to stop participating and effectively killed ideas. This behavior was disruptive. Even when the criticism was fair and thoughtful, people would not come back to revisit their criticism after changes were made, so it gave the impression that the criticism was still relevant. When weighing whether to present support/oppose on the same page or to try a different system to prevent misunderstandings and open hostility toward idea creators and campaign topics, I chose to prioritize the latter every time. Volunteers and staff who review ideas know to read the discussion pages because the criticism is often valid when deciding whether an idea is feasible. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 09:42, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Another idea.......Precisely nothing but cluttering the feed.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 08:24, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

This idea was just submitted today. I don't remove ideas from the campaign simply because they are incomplete or in the process of being drafted. No deadlines and all, you know? But I will montior this idea over the next day or two to see if there is any further activity. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 10:00, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Another one.Probably is a violation of safe-spaces-policy.See this and this, for a background.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 08:46, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

This idea is unlikely to go anywhere merely because it lacks much in the way of detail, but again, it's not related to measurement, so I'll be moving it out of the campaign. Thanks. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 10:00, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
@Winged Blades of Godric: I recommend you stop trying to shut down ideas of others. FYI, I did admit to my wrongdoings in UTRS and freenode channel. I was still kicked out despite being honest. And the CU didn't even follow the rules before taking my talk page access. And actually I'm just narrating what happened to me to illustrate the problem. It is not just me who has been unfairly targeted. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 09:05, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
It's a long-established policy that frivolous unblock requests which are clear-cut lies will get your talk-page-access revoked because you are wasting administrator-time.Also, freenode isn't an official channel for any WP-related communication.And, that I refuse to engage with you any further, have the pleasure of the last word, shall you wish.Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 09:11, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Winged Blades of Godric There are no restrictions to issue unblock requests, see w:WP:NEVERUNBLOCK. You can make as many as you want and I would have likely eventually come clean. I did so in UTRS. Also UTRS is an official channel for unblock requests, and the guys on freenode too were Wiki admins. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 09:13, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
The only reasons to revoke talk page access are invalid or disruptive/vandal requests. Someone afraid of admitting they’re a sock and arguing they are not isn't either. I have read the policies and I suggest you stick to them. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 09:33, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

Mr Jethro, can you restore my idea to the Inspire campaign? Mistreatment by the admins is a problem and it shouldn't be demoted to less visibilty because some have a problem. I don’t even troll or sock now. Not just at my block, I was even threatened with a block for uttering censorship when some users kept reverting me over one baseless reason or another. But the admins did nothing when I was alleged to be pushing an agenda even though I only added reliably sourced material. It is not just me who receives such a treatment at their hands obviously. If Godric opposes me, he should contact me at my talk page or idea page. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 09:21, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

@MonsterHunter32: Creating ideas around the notion that admins can sometimes have poor judgment is not problematic (I am an admin on English Wikipedia as a volunteer, and I freely admit that I have made bad judgment calls), but your idea isn't really about how to capture when, how often, or in what circumstances admins behave or make decisions in ways that are inappropriate. Therefore, it's not a good fit in this campaign, but you are free to invite other community members to review your idea on IdeaLab. I have left some comments there-- I think you will need to start an RfC on English Wikipedia to create these roles, though I suspect there will be fairly prominent concerns about who is qualified to "watch the watchers", so to speak. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 10:25, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Okay I understand. I was only concerned because of Godric's attempt to discredit it. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 10:28, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Even if I do start a debate on it, I think there will be a lot of negative reception to it on Wikipedia, it’s already generating some here. Me being blocked in past will likely be extra ammo to those opposed even if I have improved. RfC is likely the only way but it will be tough. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 10:33, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for taking the time to talk and advice. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 11:01, 22 July 2018 (UTC)

New Idea That Does Not Require a Grant.[edit]

Hello.
I am just letting you know that I have created a new idea, but it does not require any funding. I'm not really sure how to proceed and I would appreciate if someone can get back to me and explain how this works. Thanks. J.A.R.N.Y.🗣📜 20:01, 23 July 2018 (UTC)

@Just A Regular New Yorker: I may not be an admin and your idea may not be same as mine, but like Jethro advised me, you should start an RfC involving the community especially if it concerns policy or a new mechanism. Taking the opinion of admins will especially be important. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 16:51, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
@Just A Regular New Yorker: Hey J.A.R.N.Y. MonsterHunter32 is correct. Your idea is something that will require a planned community discussion to implement. There is some guidance here related to starting a discussion about your idea. If you'd like, we can chat over e-mail or over voice chat so I can walk you through how this process works, what kind of work is required, and who you might consider reaching out to for support. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 19:32, 25 July 2018 (UTC)
I've decided to hold off for now based on feedback I received about the idea, but thanks anyway. J.A.R.N.Y.🗣 23:02, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Is money the only way to make a project move forward?[edit]

Or maybe the real problem is that I don't want your money? I suppose you could pay me to undertake one of the next steps, but I'm not really that interested and I should be focusing more on revising the textbook for my course that starts next month... Already?

For a concrete example, Wikipedia could try to pay me for the time I would have to spend studying how articles are rated and evaluated so the dimensions (of the reputations of the articles) could be defined more clearly and in a way that is symmetric with the yet-to-be-established reputations of the contributors. In other words, you could try to hire me to define MEPR-A more clearly, but I'd much prefer to just let most of that work be handled by someone who already knows how articles are "measured". Putting it in communications terms, I think the natural next step is to somehow find the people who are experts in evaluating Wikipedia articles and ask if any of them are interested in extending their expertise towards the contributors...

Another communications angle would be to find people who like to manage projects or write grant proposals. Again, I don't seem to be one of them. (Interesting realization is that among the various 'extensions' of my writing and editorial work with the research lab, very few of them involved project management, though there were a number of project proposals, sometimes with funding considerations included.) Shanen (talk) 01:19, 13 August 2018 (UTC)

@Shanen: There are other ways to move projects forward, but a project of the scope and size you have submitted would undoubtedly take an immense amount of time to develop, so it's not something I would expect to be done on a voluntary basis. Every once in a great while, someone does step up to take on someone else's project, but it's very unusual. I think this is because of the volunteer nature of the project, but that is just my take. I have a few ideas for how to contact folks who have experience with reviewing articles for quality, but am a bit tied up at the moment. I'll reply back here with some suggestions. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 15:50, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
@JethroBT: That's why I think it should be broken down to small increments, and I think there are a couple of natural approaches for first steps. However the main reason to reply is to ask you about Facebook's new member reputation system. I haven't been able to find out much about it except that it's a single dimension and completely automated. Shanen (talk) 19:05, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Blowing off steam[edit]

I have another idea however the grants page is closed, so I'm mentioning it here if Wikimedia has interest. It might need funding depending on what the Wiki wants. It's about blowing off steam and comes from my experience on editing at Wikia very briefly. Some of them have chat and forums where casual discussion can take place. In the past, I have across many frustrating experiences. Combined this with admin abuse and uncooperative users, the result has often been horrible, even leading me to trolling. While it is wrong, much of it happens due to frustration. I suggest that a safe space be created where users are encouraged to blow off steam in a casual carefree environment

In addition to casual chatting, joking about others should be allowed as long as they explicitly permit it. However of course it needs to be within the usual limits. There should be no malice in jokes therefore only good-humored satire should be allowed, no vandalism at all, no constant arguments over an issue. Such casual spaces can also act as a forum for resolving issues. Although IRC ios there, it's very clunky.

Probably we can set up something like a Discord server, though it will be needed to be limited to extended confirmed users to prevent vandalism. In case it's on-site, or a separate chat created by Wikimedia itself; it will of course require funding for servers, engineers and volunteers managing it etc MonsterHunter32 (talk) 04:37, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

Timeless Newsletter • Issue 2[edit]

Wikimedia beetle.svg

The second issue of the Timeless newsletter is out.

The news: Themes are coming to Timeless! Your infobox and navbox templates in particular are probably going to look absolutely horrible in the new built-in night mode.


For more information, background, plans and progress updates, please see the full issue on Meta, complete with a ridiculous list of phabricator task links, gratuitous mention of other skins, and me complaining about the current state of MediaWiki skinning in general.

-— Isarra 01:48, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Grants:IdeaLab/Levels of Admins to create hierarchical order among editors[edit]

Hi, may I call your attention to Grants:IdeaLab/Levels of Admins to create hierarchical order among editors? It’s a bit lost, not using the form, and it’s not linked. Regards --Schniggendiller (talk) 08:12, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

@Schniggendiller: Thanks for calling my attention to it, I'll update it with the appropriate form. I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 18:17, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

Talkback[edit]

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Hello, I JethroBT (WMF). You have new messages at AWang (WMF)'s talk page.
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concern[edit]

Hello JethroBT (WMF), I hope you are well. I just saw that you intend to hold a teleconference on November 13 to help anyone submit a project proposal. I am very interested but the problem is that I speak French so I do not know if you can help me write outside the Hangout. Best regards --Modjou (talk) 15:39, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi Modjou, thanks for contacting me, and I hope you are doing well, too. While I can't communicate in French, I can provide some initial feedback over e-mail or on a discussion page on a draft proposal if you'd like to start a grant proposal. If you're having trouble completing some sections, I would recommend looking at past proposals that have been funded to see some examples. I will also check to see if there are any French speakers on staff who are available to help on November 13, but I am not confident the people I have in mind will be available at that time, so I would recommend starting your proposal so I can start to offer some guidance for now. Thanks, I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 18:39, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
OK thanks a lot. I started writing my project on one of my draft here you can see. thanks again. --Modjou (talk) 20:40, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Grants:Project/ContentMine/ScienceSource[edit]

I saw the Grants:Project/ContentMine/ScienceSource and remembered a kind of similar idea on medical and health articles in Wikipedia. During outbreak of diseases it is possible to see the onset of the outbreak quite early in the traffic stats on Wikipedia. The traffic for specific diseases spikes. The problem is that we can only see such traffic spikes for countries, to really make it useful we should have traffic statistics with a somewhat higher granularity. Imagine a colorpleth [1] with a grid layout, not the country layout, and make it possible to play back how the traffic changes. It must also be possible to see the individual hits, typically on a near global level. The eye is very good at catching trends and patterns, and you will then see the outbreak as waves on the map. It is also possible to calculate wavefront statistics, and model the movement by using a w:Kalman filter.

Other, and quite fun use of this is to track tsunamis, earthquakes, and meteors.

There are at least one article describing this for disease outbreaks,[2] but the technique is quite general. The only thing that can create problems are lack of time resolution. You can not track the movement of a meteor because there is not enough resolution in time (only available to one hour). You can although track a tsunami. — Jeblad 16:28, 7 November 2018 (UTC)