User talk:Omotecho/Archive 4

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Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month 2023: Invitation

Dear Wikipedian!

After two successful campaigns, Wikimedia Ukraine, in cooperation with the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine and Ukrainian Institute, decided to launch "Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month" in the year 2023, which will last from 1st until 31st March. The campaign is dedicated to famous Ukrainian artists of cinema, music, literature, architecture, design, and cultural phenomena of Ukraine that are now part of world heritage.

I would like to invite you to participate once again in this writing challenge! We have revised the suggested articles and announced new prizes for contestants to motivate fruitful contributions from participants. I hope to see you on board soon!

You received this message because you participated either in 2021 or 2022 edition of Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month.ValentynNefedov (WMUA) (talk) 07:47, 2 March 2023 (UTC)

Translations for Wikimania 2023

Hi Omotecho,

You are receiving this notification because you have listed yourself as a volunteer for Wikimania 2023 either on Meta or on Wikimania wiki or because you have subscribed on Meta. Your help with translating the following pages on Wikimania wiki in your languages would be highly appreciated:

If you do not want to reiceive further notifications about pages related to Wikimania 2023, which are available for translation, you may remove your name from this list.

Thanks for your help! --Ameisenigel (talk)

This message was delivered through Global message delivery --MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 09:40, 4 March 2023 (UTC)

There's a discussion you previous involved had an update

こんにちは、 Omotechoさん。
Last month we caught a lot of poor translation from user:とんずらする豚, now there's a comment on ja:Wikipedia:投稿ブロック依頼/とんずらする豚、Bletilla. You are invited to join that discussion. Lemonaka (talk) 17:31, 7 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the ping, @Lemonaka, but (sigh)…… Is that debate productive or lands anyway but push one User out from our sight only? Japanese culture sometimes runs toward purist mindset, that’s good for cultural assets, but rather slowed down towards people-to-people.
Why can I not show ways to rehabilitate? Searched for the answer on Meta or Strategy and Behavior kind of pages, ashamed but need to admit I came back empty handed. Just panishment is highlighted everywhere.
Because old ones won’t change? Are we not terrifying newer users to predict how harsh an accusation could be with no one speaking for the accused?
The discussion/accusation is not productive AFAIK if I remember:
I am and dream to be/keep on as a translator, with my own shortcomings on codes. People come and give me both warm and cold hands, mend scars I have left without telling me “I patched the hole you left open, Omotecho.” Or warn me they will report me to admins nas refusing communication.
Then, I hope to pay forward, and what each of us owe to each other? Nagging your shortsightedness? How can we unbind the blindfold if they are tied to their desire and wish to be a helpful use, but the reality is not catching up. Either if you need to train yourself to reach that esteem, where is the dashboard or self/co-help program? Is the particular case very good to start our voyage into that sphere of ability or resources?
It is very hard for me to swallow the fact that accusations are not backed with remedy/intuitive logic how a person can fulfill their passion and goal that would be helpful for the extended community.

Ppl says a user is good at heart, but weak at accepting failure or taking holds to explain/excuse whenever they are bashed. Ppl says “Stop”, and naturally conversing is so hard when you see 1:10 ratio you are defeated. Do we have any speaking lessons on advising your counterpart, recommend and “yield and turn to whatsoever”.
Hey, which shoes are we in here and there, the target or the hitter? Isn’t it mirroring one day if our wiki-lives down the road? If so, I need a white flag to raise and treated as a surrender, not a prisoner. Otherwise, I envision an ego that needs to feel being part of our Movement will morph to any username, if they hate being an unregistered without pings coming in: Mentions make you find you are live, s/body out there notices that a particular person exists. Rehabilitate, no ban or in this case morph enhancing. Cheers, Omotecho (talk) 03:42, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
I cannot speak more, a lot of people request for banning others, succussed and then got banned themselves. I respect self-governance of Japanese Wikipedia, but it seemed a little strange to me. Lemonaka (talk) 04:04, 10 March 2023 (UTC)
@Omotecho Yea, as you once predicted, this user was exiled from Japanese Wikipedia. Lemonaka (talk) 07:44, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

This Month in Education: February 2023

Growth team newsletter #25

13:10, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

This Month in Education: March 2023

Thank you for your contributions to Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month!

Dear Omotecho/Archive 4,

I am delighted that you have responded to the invitation and once again have taken part in Ukraine's Cultural Diplomacy Month. No matter how large or small your contribution to this year’s campaign, I want to thank you for your recurring dedication to sharing the cultural phenomena of Ukraine on the pages of Wikipedia!

As always, we would be happy to award you with a certificate of participation. Please make sure that you have enabled email function, I would reach out to you soon.

Detailed results would be soon published on our landing page and top-30 contributors will receive prizes, so stay tuned for that.

Stay safe and accept our deepest gratitude ValentynNefedov (WMUA) (talk) 09:46, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

This Month in Education: April 2023

Growth team newsletter #26

15:14, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

Why Tuneit?

@Pols12, Concerning your question: darn, I have been working on multiple projects, and not recall where I bumped into Template:Tunit... Very sorry.
Possibilities are:

-- Omotecho (talk) 12:25, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

You were actually translating “Wikimedia Foundation Affiliates Strategy”. You probably expected to translate “Check your local time” string, which is actually the 16th unit of that page. The {{Tunit}} template (“Translation unit”) does not have any content, it reuses translations from the page where it is used. 🙂 -- Pols12 (talk) 17:35, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

This Month in Education: June 2023

2023 is a great starting point, don't you think?

Growth team newsletter #27

12:42, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

日本人に対してテンプレート「Welcome」をそのままでsubst:展開しないでください。

@Omotecho

User talk:シェン,アーナリー,ン,アーバァ.の令和5年8月2日 (水) 01:32時点]におけるあなたによるをご覧ください。

  • まず、{{Welcome}}を張る場合、このテンプレートが見出し「Welcome to Meta!」を生成するため、節「Welcome」は必要ありません。
  • そして、名前の通り、またバベルに記載がないことからお察しの通り、私は英語を翻訳機に頼らずに読むことができません。ですから、{{Welcome}}を英語のままsubst:展開しないでください。

日本語を母語とする利用者であるあなたが、英語を理解できるとしていない利用者である私に対して、英語で話しかけ続けることは、客観的に見ると、嫌がらせ行為だと誤解されます。また、あなたが日本語を理解できることを知らないような英語を理解できない利用者にとって、特定の利用者から理解できない言語で話しかけられ続けることは、ウィキメディアの他言語なプロジェクトでの活動意欲を著しく阻害します。

追記
あなたのように日本語にも英語にも堪能な利用者ばかりではないことは、あなたも知っていると思います。また、翻訳作業をする利用者が、すべからく両方の言語を理解して翻訳しているわけではないこと。そして、両方の言語を理解した理想的な翻訳者が十分な人数いるわけではないこと。さらに、日本語話者にとって、ラテン文字が並んでいるよりも、カタカナ音訳のほうがまだましであることをご理解いただけますと幸いです。
カタカナ音訳を、より適切な日本語に翻訳しなおすことは、あなたの素晴らしい貢献だと思いますが、わざわざ利用者の善意に対して、利用者ページにやってきて外国語で「翻訳に確信が持てないならば端からやるな」と言って回る必要はありません。利用者の受け取り方によっては、不快や嫌味に感じ、下手をすると利用者間の紛争の原因になりかねません。
先ほどの件でいえば、あのカタカナ音訳が不適当な理由を説明する特別ページなどに誘導するなどにとどめてください。確かに、ほとんどすべてをカタカナ音訳するような場合は問題だと思いますが、一部をカタカナ音訳で済ませてしまうことは、ひとまず日本語話者の理解できるページにするために必要なことだと思います。また、WWCは、短期間で終わるものです。確かに、日本語話者の利用者の多くにとってあまり関係のないイベントではありますが、このイベントが日本語話者の利用者にとって関係が薄いのが先か、このイベントが日本語に速やかに翻訳されないから関係が持てないのかは、卵が先か鶏が先かという問題です。少なくとも日本語版ウィキペディアでバナー告知するほどに優先度の高いページを即席で翻訳するために多少、カタカナ音訳を使っただけで利用者ページで議論をする必要はないと思います。

ともかく、英語が理解できない利用者に英語で話しかけ続けないでください。メタ・ウィキメディアに日本語版はありませんが、それは基本的に言語に縛られないことの裏返しでもあります。私はあなたの英語による発言の理解のために6時間を失いました。日本語も英語も理解できるあなたには難しいかもしれませんが、英語ではなく「理解できない言語」で話しかけられるということと、翻訳ではなく「理解できる言語に変換しようとする」ことについて、今一度考えるべきです。 シェン,アーナリー,ン,アーバァ. (talk, ja.Wikipedia: talk) 03:01, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Note Note: いったんコメントアウト、話題の分断を避けるためtalkページ 25400759 番のこの差分へ転記しました。いずれアーカイブし記録を残します。-- Omotecho (talk) 04:51, 3 August 2023 (UTC) / アーカイブ発動前に分断元の話題スレッドへ転記。 --Omotecho (talk) 02:29, 4 August 2023 (UTC)

This Month in Education: July 2023

Wikimedians_of_Japan_User_Group

Done

Hello. I suggest keeping everything to a single language. Having two languages on the same page makes it messy. The page content language can be changed if you decide to use Japanese. --Minorax«¦talk¦» 09:15, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the input, and is a great chance to see the feasibility for me. This page talks about 2023-2026 time span, I mind you.
Is the understanding correct, that as far as they keep things in ja only, paid translators will take care of putting/revising things into en for whoever reader request that arrangement? Or dividing by lnaguage can at least split messiness
For the time being, how do you evaluate the readability of the same page for the native speakers? IMHO it inevitably gives fake image that the group is not facing toward the peer speakers, but the Foundation or anybody needing pages in en. I have to admit that kind of scheptics are not very helpful at an infancy of any group in any setting, if it can avoid such image making. The page is messy: you don't have things in en as much as it is given in ja, a sad fact.
If the managing users will have to do the same translation tasks twice:
  • for sharing with the community,
  • and for Reporting to the ESEAP POs.
Omotecho (talk) 09:39, 21 July 2023 (UTC)
Hi, @Minorax, here goes an update, and the project initiator advised me that they needs to concentrate on binding Rapid Fund Report for the time being. While peers jumped in to smooth translation units, we won’t push to make the page into bilingual/internationalization urgently.
FYI, usually towards the mid-August, things slow down in Japanese society in general due scorching heat as well as younger children stay home for summer vacation.
Would love to consult you for wisdom before long, cheers, Omotecho (talk) 18:06, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Comment Comment Per your advice, @Minorax:, enjoy reading the infant page has grown into a toddler, with much investment now. Anyhow, a start up group will need much more advise from advanced users. Drop your thoughts anytime, and appreciate you for fueling budding pages and motivation. (: --Omotecho (talk) 04:26, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

This Month in Education: September 2023

ESEAP activities and user group

Hi, it was nice to meet at the Wikimedia Library event in Singapore. Actually I was taking part in the Wikimania this year to get to know more people from ESEAP-region and it was a welcome surprise having the opportunity to talk to you at this event. The ESEAP activities are entering the new round, the preparation for next years conference in April/May. For this a survey was send (Link to Google forms). Maybe you did fill it out already (?), in this case apologies for the cross-posting. I am a bit struggling to fill it out, because I can't speak for the Japanese community. I had a deeper look in the user group page again and I think, that especially the language aspect is important and language means English. Not only, because we are talking to the native speakers, but mainly, because English is the Lingua franca of the Movement (you know this, but it was written above wrong, a lot of Japanese think, that English is for the native English speakers, but that is only part of the picture). 勿論、日本で日本語が使ている必要と思います。And sorry for making it a bit messy, but this language problem is important and in the moemnt not prominently on the ESEAP agenda. I think it is also important for other communities. Greeting from Ai24 (talk) 06:41, 28 August 2023 (UTC)

Hello, thank you to inform me you share the same concern: English is the linga franca, but we respect diversity including languages. That is perfect on our 2023 Strategy.
OK, to make it short: Good part is that there is a group working to nominate themselves as the helpers to any ja language community users, starting fresh in the Spring of 2023. However, I am not sure how far they have followed Wikimania.
Please recall the procedure how you have applied and was approved to gain the resource and operated the brilliant largest Wikimania ever? Was the process very inter-lingua as pages are prepared in your familiar language? I am very sure you need survey results so that you can write the Grantee Report due in weeks to come. Then, if you prepare the survey in official languages of Wikimania, or Singapore herself, what will you loose?
For practicality concerning ESEAP region and how we hold to its language diversity:
we are the richest on this planet if you count the local language we still preserve for millennia !(^o^)! That said, ESEAP Community Resource team has stretched their goal by inviting more WMF Grant application by inventing multilingual approach.
  1. Look into Grants application page, it lowers the fence for future grantee to understand how they will propose their plans on the official the Fluxx, or the site outside of wiki sphere; just like your Google Form, it is written 100% in English;
  2. on Metawiki, we have a translatable page for the same questions grantee-to-be are asked to fill on Fluxx in English;
  3. so to speak, why Wikimania does not have a surveyees' Sandbox, or tutorial on Metawiki, like the CR team coined?
You know, the hard part, or what I have grutch on, is that the first gateway Fluxx rejects you when you don't write English. And the same sadness comes in when I go to your Google Form survey. I can jump the barrier of language, but I wish more of your audience will tell you how they were excited to welcome Wikimania Singapore at the heart of our international community.
Ja community looks very silent and even timid from the outside, since members seldom come to English sphere. Well, editing oriented brains are too busy to care for spending hours copy-paste questionnairs from Google Form to Google Translate, sum up your happy feeling about Wikimania Singapore in native tongue, put it though Google Translate, then paste it on Google Form... Isn't it an endless Pokemon-hunt without any monster you gain? Does it not sound familiar to you before you found comfort maneuvering on wikimedia ? We can change the game. It was ten days before ratification vote for UCoC, and with pages in en-ja translation, ja community users made a record input, from average 100- to 3,000+.
Last but not least, I have to confess that myself feeling fooled by the coordination between Eventyey/YouTube/Wikimania sites, and abondoned clicking through tabs on my iPhone11 as I was on a countryside with bad web connection (they will bill me a heck in September anyway.) Spent considerable time at home to build "my timeline", then on mobile, it was a joke trying to click trough and find the right session page; all is what I have input on the Google Form.
I am sorry we are running out of time to experiment how Singapore leads the way for conferences in ESEAP. I remain in respect Singapore culture how you communicate beyond language, it is like a model for how we will live on a spaceship Earth (; Good day to you, -- Omotecho (talk) 07:24, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
Thank you for the insightful comments. I am also convinced that language represents an important key to worldwide problems. And this key is hidden in broad daylight. Of course a lot of people are aware of "language problems" and translators (and the like) are hired to solve them. However, we know, that it is not about these surface problems, because needless to say, that languages can (and should) be translated. I think you outlined a quite good approach to handle these developments on a data-level. Indeed I had similar ideas and tried to establish a contact to Wikimedia Deutschland, also related to other issues. But the grand-application process, which I avoided until now, is definitely a key, which is related to language. I will have a look at this. But before this survey has to be filled out (deadline September 1.). I will write about the language issues, there is also the Documentation of last summit (2023), with the etherpads, showing how language should be handled. Indeed I am glad, that ESEAP is evolving like it does and my aim is not to facilitate a representation of Japan in ESEAP, but of course I am more than willing to help with this. There are however other things, which need to be addressed, not for the Wikimedians of Japan alone. The central point is not the quietness of the Japanese Wikimedians, you are one of the examples, that this is not the case. But the movement has to go beyond the language threshold, which it is not really aware of in the moment. Greetings from Nagoya, Ai24 (talk) 02:24, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
@Ai24, my gratitude that you made me a doer once, I am a big-mouth talker otherwise (;
Kindly see a page to assist ja speakers, reading the survey questions in ja translation. Still, they will open Google Form to put through their ideas on the table.
Would you kindly advise me if there are other channels we can put how users can contribute to the Survey? It is mentioned at: (italic part are mended, sorry for confusion.)
I wish that kind of testing stick will make people try out the water, convinced that the water is not too cold or too hot for them to dip their hands/feet.
Changing the subject:
Apology that while I have signed up to WML session in Singapore, I was not able to attend remotely from a mountain top. Yes, WML is a treasure that would back up our language issues as well: pitty .ja domain libraries and archives are donating very slowly, but there is a ring leader / jawp user who has been doing lectures onsite, and extending the ring of librarians/archivists gradually who understand we share the eager to make knowledge free for anyone. wow.
My focus on WML persists when you look at those artworks by Japanese artists on Wikimedia Commons. In this case, English sphere is loosing knowledge they otherwise could gain freely, while the present owners of each art have donated them to the world as images in high quality. I admire them on Commons, doodling, but, sadly filling their description in both en/ja is a huge Commons Project for those who are concerned. So many of art pieces are still without good/referenced description in either language.
You know, they are in very good care abroad, maybe could not have survived otherwise when you think about the turmoil post 1868 or during 1940s. If libraries/archives in Japan donates those references/biblio resources on WML, that means those art pieces will be freed from orphaned state, and will tell us their own stories, such a joy to appreciate art, a key to, well, happy moments. Maybe I am too selfish as far as art-and-craft goes.
Pls take care, three typhoons and tropical winds are what we will have toward the weekend. Maybe they will keep you in Singapore-mood (; And the Super Moon, too. Wishing our skies will clear along the archipelago, --Omotecho Omotecho (talk) 03:27, 29 August 2023 (UTC)
Sorry for being late in my answer. And it seems that the Typhoons spare the main islands, but Okinawa is once again affected. And what is happening to the islands here, is also happening all over the pacific islands. Fortunately, in terms of resilience Japan has also a lot to offer for the world. And in the arts I couldn't agree more, my wife in an artist (日本画) and even specialists for art in Europe do not really understand, what my wife is painting, because it is less the subjects of her paintings (mainly bread and children, which sounds not so Japanese, at least, if bread is concerned), but the how is what is making the paintings different. In middle age Europe these kind of pigment-colours were also used, but they went out of fashion in the 19th century. And that is only one example. And thank you for the hints!! The strategy form is really a bingo, I did not know it at all. And what is WML? Is it Webide Meta Language? And let's see, what comes back, in terms of the survey and later the conference participation. I want to go, but I need some kind of a project (presentation etc.), because I have postpone lessons (補講) and I only can do this for projects, which are related to professional activities. Ai24 (talk) 00:47, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
@Ai24 Oops, sorry I forgot to link to m:Wikipedia Library, which in term ja speakers will gain a lot at ウィキペディア図書館; it gives you log-in priorities as if you are a VIAF registered scholar or an affiliate with an academia.
As I am translating pages onto jawp, and I will be able to search/read summaries of resources which is paywalled otherwise: I can’t imagine going barehanded any longer without that service WMF had opened for users.
For projects:
I am still to join any off-wiki meetings, or editathon(s) on university premises like library/museum, could involve both students/faculty and local residents: one example of applying Wikipedia to English literature courses by an academic faculty/user. Swedish Embassy supports w:ja:WikiGap editathons. Other volunteer groups including student Wiki club exists. For Wikipedia and education, m:Diff (blog) offers good reads; Wikimedia and Education and it’s tutorials.
On the street, the Wikipedia Town, or location-focused editathons / activities are taking place, too. The organizers are listed here to make contact.
Malaysia:
Wait and see, Wikicons like the one in Malaysia usually offer airfares and accommodation costs for non-presenters as well. Maybe bigger chance for users located in Japan, as you know, ja community offers the fourth largest contribution to wiki sphere.
Be spared of typhoon migraine; triple low pressure systems are enough and tip something in our system to affect functioning as usual. See how myself pondering a toy box of ideas, (; if it will not spoil your day. Cheers, ありがとう, Omotecho (talk) 05:06, 30 August 2023 (UTC)
Good morning. Thanks for more infos. While I knew already Wikipedia Towns (actually only the Facebook page) and the WikiLibrary, especially the WikiGap was new to me. Although my Japanese is working on a daily basis, it is difficult for me to write texts in Japanese, there would definitely need a lot of editing. In most cases, it would therefore be better, if a Japanese writer would do it. I found that WikiLibrary for my preparation of the National Library Event in Singapore. In this context a cooperation with Wkipedia Germany would make sense. As for the next ESEAP conference, money is not that important. It is time, because it is difficult for me to take time of, during the semester. My university gives me time for research, but I have to document, that I am doing research. My answers for the survey are ready and I will send it today. I hope to meet you again, could be Malaysia or could be a Wikimedia related event in Japan. By the way I had the idea to do an online meetup on a regular basis, for the Japanese Wikimedians, of course than in Japanese. I think Zoom would be a good medium for this and I thought Sunday afternoon would be a good time slot for this. Before Singapore I thought I maybe do not know enough people for doing this, but now, it would be worth a try. I would maybe start using my (private) Zoom account, therefore the time for the meeting is limited to 40 minutes. Actually writing this I thought, why not just doing it this very Sunday (9月3日, 3時午後), the meeting ID is 75167791174, the passcode is P9b96J This is NOT a recurrent meeting, I will change the credentials, every week. It is a bit sudden and if you don't have time this Sunday, no problem. I publish the meetings on my (Japanese) talk page (利用者ー会話). All the best... Ai24 (talk) 01:06, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
I enjoyed the two meetings in laid-back style, or what they call in California, USA. Very ocha-nomi-banashi, お茶飲み話, or chat over coffee type of idea forum.
Now, talking about where to find events/campaigns and their calendar.
I am trying to list pages which will be handy for ja speakers, and maybe put the section titles into ja before somebody starts translation. For instance, the campaign or ofu-kai (off wiki meetings) are hard to find, and WMF is working on them using their 2023/24 budget under a team called Foundation Programs Team.
My question will be: Would you suggest any hint where I will gather those pages, maybe grouped under themes or what they are useful for?
interesting introductory page at:
For your info, one noted me missing the meeting on the 24th and opened zoom at 16:00. Omotecho (talk) 02:15, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
How can we improve "Event Discovery"? There is a technical team at WMF/Product&Tech. Exacly, their next project is to make events/campaigns more easy to find out.
What is it?
Campaigns and contests: new on-wiki tools for event/campaign organisers are completed, called "Registration tool".
Where are we now?
The tool development is finished, and they will wrap up the last feature to the users.
History
-- Omotecho (talk) 03:51, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
@Ai24, sorry I could not join today.
I discoverd a question very familiar to our dialogue during September Sunday tea talks: Product Team at WMF, and their wing of Event Discovery discusses. They ask the following and other questions.
-> 1.2 EN: Do you think it’s easy to find all of the campaign events that interest you? Why or why not?
So, mapping the past activites as going on at jawp is a very handy tool, is it not? (:
--Omotecho (talk) 11:20, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

New MT tool and headache

I am not a linguist but a practical translator, I don’t see any future fir language pair en-ja. It is mad that orevious MT tools could jump over those challenges we see in the sample: This diff=25705731&oldid=25704876 shows you where we are at the moment with MinT]. I wish I could contribute with my basic understanding of Machine Translation system, however, the starting point is not acceptable nor the expectation that colunteers will train a disturbing malfunction like MinT.

機械翻訳システムとして、エンジンそのものが日本語対応でないものは、導入しないのが常識かと思います。適性のないシステムを翻訳例の蓄積で調教できるなど、リソースが無駄な上に、成果は信用できません。エンジンがダメなら、翻訳データベースにない文を消化できません。日本語の1文字ずつを半角アキで区切る、ウィキ文を破壊する。これに翻訳を志願する人を突き合わせるのは、最善策ですか? 財政的な投資はいくらかけていますか?

I can’t blame tech ppl for that non-translation (&oldid=25704876) because the challenge is beyond small mends we usually apply: translation engine itself is very poor when we talk about matching en-ja language pair on MinT.

  • why should volunteer translators need to train a unfinished MT system of that low grade?
  • At the simplest, who cares for jumbled up texts ignoring wikimark up?
  • How a decent system will devise each letters with spacing, offered as translation?

複合文, 形容詞句, 半角アキ, wikimark up. Omotecho (talk) 04:19, 6 October 2023 (UTC)

@OmotechoThis gadget looks like some very terrible machine translation tools, I found that when I was translated something to Japanese too. Do you want to set up a RFC on meta for discussing such a problem? Lemonaka (talk) 05:00, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
@Lemonaka,
Hello, glad I am not alone on the worry: I wish to make it clearer that the MT extension MinT needs more tune up outside our platform, not on Wikimedia users’ cost/resources. Nor engineers should invest their time/effort to unfit/not for utility-wise clever choices IMHO.
Let me share with @JNakayama-WMF, a facilitator to ja Wikimedia.
Lenonaka,
may I ask what language pair have you tried feasibility/achievement score sort of? In ja, I would grade MinT an “F” for fail: no compensation with parol or whatever.
I am split with pros and cons, honestly. Guess there might not be enough number of ppl experiencing the risk that non-trained users will input mass of terrible jumbles to Wikimedia, as they trust MinT as it is provided by the Foundation, no blame on end users naturally. We encourage be bold! to users, but in strict meaning, does good intension co-exist with blindly trusting tools? Without imagine who will clean up the mess you leave behind, and excuse yourself for good intentions, but not sure what you leave behind? Only remedy we have looks to me is just stop MinT on certain language pairs.
Do you see any feasibility/ workable process to deal with MinT? What will we risk or lose, and what/how much do we gain?
That said, we need to hastily stop MinT at least on Ja language projects, or I hate to see my groom nightmare that the Foundation undermines its trust among ja speaking users once again. It’s very Japanese sentiment, but in our culture, regaining your lost face is much tougher than you expect from our smiley faces on the street.
My second thought would be if PPelberg’s team agrees to segregate ja from multi language platform. For experiment or development, specimens better start and stay in the same group. But thinking the writing styles on WM, it is not an ideal place to try things not time-tested as far as I know.
FYI, our Wikimedia engineering team had bitterly agreed to make Content Translation2 (CX2) not to function to ja language output. I was rather supporting their project, since the MT they selected to nurture was much workable than MinT. But unfortunately, jawp editor-translators prioritized attribution/copyright issues which span out of CX2, or cunning ppl used CX2 or other MT tools, (maybe on their writing apps outside Wikis?), then c&p the result into wikis violating attributions / copyrights. CX2 logs the whole procedure, which had been our weapon against those Policy violators, or whether there was a loophole to compromise I am no good to know.
Myself not a “Catcher in the Rye”, (but might look so at a glance), somehow feeling I might wake up some day and find myself a scarecrow among the quartet explorers to the Land Oz… (; --Omotecho (talk) 07:12, 6 October 2023 (UTC) corrected terms against auto spell check scars and such. / --Omotecho (talk) 07:06, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
@Omotecho I filed a request for comment on Meta:Requests_for_comment/Temporarily_stop_MinT_translation, if there is a consensus, please file a ticket on Phabricator and track the process. I'm sorry that my Japanese is rotten that cannot prove how terrible the translations from the gadget. Lemonaka (talk) 07:17, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
@Lemonaka, I've not filed a Phabricator ticket yet. Have talked on mediawiki recently, and how do I file a ticket anyway? -- Omotecho (talk) 13:40, 7 October 2023 (UTC)
@Omotecho I've filed that ticket, ticket

Lemonaka (talk) 01:36, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

@Lemonaka, thank you taking care of the challenge: as you see, I have added another sample and contrasted with other webMT output. Was noted en-fr also finds oddity.
Wish there's anything a translator like me could support tech team sooner outside of Meta deploy on MT tasks; like incubating any translation support but in more feasible way. I would squeeze in such task definately on my calendar, -- Omotecho (talk) 03:06, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
@Omotecho Can you notice local community from Japanese Wikipedia? Thanks Lemonaka (talk) 00:47, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
Righto! Omotecho (talk) 00:52, 12 October 2023 (UTC)
@Lemonaka, found out that the iceberg itself is very huge: the 2023-24 Annual Report and our direction will be discussed soon[18], and MT shift is part of the questions we are to answer: The ideal is clean and pure, while the water is wide to include new 44 languages being underserved till 2023, then what a dilemma to discuss its feasibility and balance with inclusion... Cheers, Omotecho (talk) 09:48, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
@Omotecho I'm really sorry, but you link to an empty page. Anyway, waiting for more discussion and comments for that issue. Lemonaka (talk) 12:25, 18 October 2023 (UTC)
I.e., This section to note. Over 200 languages including those 44 languages under-resources for translation, and still looking for the statistics what those figures are composed of. Omotecho (talk) 03:03, 20 October 2023 (UTC)

Growth team newsletter #28

Trizek_(WMF) Discussion 23:16, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Tech Blog has started

Tech Blog has just started. -- Omotecho (talk) 06:12, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Your translation of the CIP Wikipedia Project page

Hello, thank you so much for translating my project! I'm still working on some technical things so much of it may become obsolete soon, but I won't change much of the substance. Thank you so much! Egezort (talk) 16:02, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

@Egezort, Hello, appreciate your kindness reaching out to me. As Japanese native speakers are now having a User Group of our own, learning about your CIP project is like watching a forerunner with a bright torch. Wish you good luck and many returns, (: -- Omotecho (talk) 16:54, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

This Month in Education: October 2023