Talk:Language committee

From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki
(Redirected from Talk:Language subcommittee)
Jump to navigation Jump to search
Language committee (contact page about requests)

Please add any questions or feedback to the language committee here on this page.

Archives of this page

See also: Requests for new languages/Archives

Wiktionary Minangkabau[edit]

Hello. The Minangkabau Wiktionary recently saw a significant increase in its activities. We now have a regular pool of active contributors and recently-acquired dictionaries and other needed resources for a new project. Therefore, we would like the Committee to consider it for the next step into final approval. Thank you. Muhraz (talk) 10:07, 30 December 2018 (UTC)

Hi. Activity only really started in December. It would be good to wait at least a little bit more. There should usually be at least 3 months of consecutive activity. Please also work to complete the interface translation (at least the most-used messages). --MF-W 16:47, 3 January 2019 (UTC)
As our Wiktionary has been steadily (and increasingly) active since the last message and the core messages are being translated, I would like to request for the Committee to reconsider it for release. Thanks. Muhraz (talk) 03:41, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
You and the community are doing a great job, @Muhraz. Still, I'm going to hold this request until you have sufficient activity in April, for two reasons:
  • 3 months is the minimum activity requirement, but 4—5 months is better.
  • There is still a technical problem in creating new wikis. See phabricator:T212881. Right now, there are three approved projects (Western Armenian Wikipedia, Neapolitan Wikisource, Hindi Wikisource) and two other wikis ahead of you in line. So nothing will happen on this for a while, anyway. It's better to continue to show your community's commitment by continuing to create content in Incubator for right now. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:37, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
Very well then, we would be content to wait until next month. We expect to maintain the same level of activity, and I hope that the Committee would immediately consider our project for approval when the technical problems are fixed. Muhraz (talk) 15:43, 12 March 2019 (UTC)
@StevenJ81: It seemed to be fixed on 26 March. phab:T212881#5056630 Bennylin 03:12, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
@Bennylin: I just found out myself, and in any case have been very busy IRL. (I'm a volunteer, not paid staff.) I will get to this shortly. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:36, 5 April 2019 (UTC)
I know, none of us are. It's just that you're the only person that I can ping. Bennylin 00:38, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Hi, any update on this? Muhraz (talk) 09:44, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi @StevenJ81: do you have any information about the Minangkabau Wiktionary and what should we do to make it happen soon? Harditaher (talk) 01:30, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
@Harditaher: I'm afraid I don't. I've been extremely busy IRL the last several weeks, and haven't been able to focus on this. I will try to give this some attention this week. (But please don't forget: most of us here are volunteers, and we sometimes can't spend the time we'd like on this.) StevenJ81 (talk) 13:40, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks @StevenJ81:, We're looking forward to hearing it from you. Best. Harditaher (talk) 05:18, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

Hello, hello, any update on the approval status of this? Sorry for pinging all members of langcom: @Amire80:, @Antony D. Green:, @Evertype:, @GerardM:, @Jon Harald Søby:, @Klbroome:, @Maor X:, @MF-Warburg:, @Millosh:, @N-true:, @Santhosh.thottingal:, @Satdeep Gill:, @SPQRobin:, but it's been months since the project should be approved already.

Comparing with the latest Wiktionary that got approved:

Tacawit Minang
Speakers 2.1 million to 4.5 million 5.5 million to 8.5 million
Number of entries in incubator 1 819 (> 3 years) 5 350 (1 year)
Number of admins 1 6
Number of people in discussion page 2 32 at least
Localization status NA 503 Service Unavailable NA 503 Service Unavailable
# of translators in translatewiki 3 6

Bennylin 21:13, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Hi Bennylin,
According to the Language proposal policy, one of the requisites for final approval is that there is a continuing effort to translate the MediaWiki interface into that language.
As far as I can see, there has been almost no Minangkabau localization activity in translatewiki: translatewiki:Portal:Min. If anyone can come back to translating there regularly, it will be easier to approve this.
If anyone needs help with localization, please ask me, and I'll be ready to provide any necessary assistance!
Thanks! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:04, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

WP Incubator test wikis awaiting content verification[edit]

Hello. There are several projects placed in this category. What is the overhauling time required for them to be definitely approved and open as independent WP? Because :

  • Wp/skr : ongoing since 10/22/2018
  • Wp/gcr : ongoing since 12/13/2018
  • Wp/mnw : ongoing since 12/17/2018

It's been more than 6 months! Where are the discussions on the working of these overhaulings? Is this a normal delay? Thanks. Axel xadolik (talk) 09:56, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

@Axel xadolik: Your point is well taken.
  • I have been busy IRL. I'm now trying to get some things back on track (see below). Thank you for your understanding about that.
  • On one hand, we should absolutely get those projects (including also Wt/shy) verified and in the queue.
  • On the other hand, there is still a technical issue in getting projects created. Even if these projects are approved, they're still going to sit for a while until the technical problem is fixed, and then until the two fully approved projects pending creation (Hindi and Neapolitan Wikisources) get created. In April, I didn't feel like there was a hurry because of that. But at this point I want to get these shaken loose.
  • There's not actually a mechanism in place formally as to what to do if we cannot get content verified. I'm consulting someone on that question now.
Again, thank you for your continuing support and your patience. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:56, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
Are the technical issues fixed? (Times are changing, said Dylan; but Issues are staying, I'd may rhyme... ;) ) Regards Axel xadolik (talk) 10:51, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Alas, no. (How Western Armenian got created I'm not sure, but apparently the answer is no.) StevenJ81 (talk) 16:51, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
This must drive motivated contributors to despair. After several hundred projects that have been successfully transferred for years, we could assume that the procedures are well-run routines. These delays are very annoying. Axel xadolik (talk) 21:31, 25 June 2019 (UTC)
=> @StevenJ81, What are the news about activating these projects? And for those which wait behind in the queue? We do not have much news from other members of Langcom who seem to be very discreet for a few months ... Thank you for your answers. Axel xadolik (talk) 16:40, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

@StevenJ81, I think that problem has been resolved. I expect that wikis be apprved.Sraiki 16:41, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

I started a check about Mon (mnw). I currently don't see a reason for it to be controversial. (Or did I miss something, and an expert checked it already?)
I'll also try to start a check about skr and gcr, although it may be a bit more complicated.
Thanks for the poke, and sorry about not replying earlier. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:58, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

I want to make the North Korean version[edit]

I am japanese. I know basic korean lang. I can know The korean news peper. I want to make North Korea Version. It is difficult for Koreans to understand North Korean.(30% of the words are different.) But Don't I have ISO code of North Korean.

What should I do? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inc rup (talk) 08:59, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

North Korean has no ISO code, and it is pretty unlikely that LangCom is going to support creation of a separate Wikipedia in North Korean. I can suggest a couple of ideas:
  1. Try to add North Korean words to Korean Wiktionary (and other Wiktionaries). The point here is that in other Wiktionaries, the definitions have to be written in whatever language is the language of the Wiktionary, but the lemmas (words to be defined) can be in any language. So it's a way within current projects to start disseminating differences between North Korean and standard [South] Korean.
  2. Create a test project at Incubator Plus, where you can freely create a project without an ISO code. StevenJ81 (talk) 15:13, 22 July 2019 (UTC)
(Edit conflict) Don't. Projects should be started by native speakers. Also, North Korean doesn't have an ISO code because it's not considered a separate language from Korean, by SIL or by us. Requests for new languages/Wikipedia South Korean has already taken on this issue, from the other angle. If you insist on preceding, see The ISO 639 code change page, where you can request an ISO code for North Korean. (Written before StevenJ81; you should also consider his answer.)--Prosfilaes (talk) 16:05, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

I am not familiar with English.

"cooking" of Korean is

north Korea =ryori

south korean =yori

South Version have"North korean Word" .

I make a North korea lang wiki.요리 (yori page)료리 (ryori page)

This is totally appropriate, and a good way to do things. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:53, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
If you are unfamiliar with English, then write in Japanese. Google Translate is pretty bad on English-Japanese translation, but I'm sure there's someone here who can help with translation. Differences like that are not usually reason to create a separate Wikipedia, and you would first need to try to get a code from SIL (from the page I linked above) before you could try to create a Wikipedia.
(Google Translate)英語に慣れていない場合は、日本語で書いてください。 グーグル翻訳は日英翻訳にはかなり悪いですが、私はここに翻訳を手伝ってくれる人がいると確信しています。 そのような違いは通常別のウィキペディアを作成する理由ではありません、そしてあなたがウィキペディアを作成しようとすることができる前に最初にSILからコードを入手しようとする必要があるでしょう。--Prosfilaes (talk) 13:35, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
About your example on 요리, it's called dialects. You don't have English (US) / English (UK) / English (Canada) Wikipedia. Same stuff. — regards, Revi 13:47, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Development delays[edit]

Just to answer everyone at once here, phab:T212881 has still not been resolved. I'm not quite sure how Western Armenian got through all this, but I cannot get anything else through right now. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:21, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

Steven, thanks for the update. Because of this long delay we found a quite siginificant decrease in contributions at Minangkabau Wiktionary, since there is basically no point of contributing when project creation is impossible anyway; a discouraging condition, particularly looking back at the level of activity at the beginning of the year. While I recognize that all of us work in voluntary capacity, I might offer that a longer delay may contribute to worse consequences to the future of potential Wiki projects here at the Incubator. Are there any steps that the committee can take for projects affected by this, absent any feasible technical solutions? Muhraz (talk) 13:34, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
I'm not sure. I'll work on it. Certainly, one thing is that I'm going to suspend the activity requirement for this stretch of time, provided there was sufficient activity right before the problems started. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:35, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
So is verification also stalled now? -- 02:00, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
I would suggest the Committee to issue some form of temporary verification for stalled projects. If the technical problem is not going to be resolved in any near future, at least verification should proceed. Muhraz (talk) 12:22, 4 August 2019 (UTC)

I have sent them and they didn't reply[edit]

I have sent them an email wanting to be part of the langcom and they didn't reply. What does this mean? I got rejected?--SharabSalam (talk) 04:09, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

I don't remember seeing anything on the mailing list. Can you please send a new email, with CC to me, amir.aharoni at ? Thanks! --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 11:40, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

Approving four projects[edit]

I am pushing ahead to finalize approval of Guiane Creole WP, Saraiki WP, Mon WP and Tacawit (Shawiya) Wiktionary, and hope to do so by next week. After that, I will start clearing the backlog of projects that are otherwise ready for approval. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:36, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Thank StevenJ81, We from Mon Wiki Group are looking forward to hearing from you and LangCom about the final approval of Mon Wp. Htawmonzel

It may take a little longer than a week. But someone is really trying to address this now, and I'm going to sit hard on them. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:02, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Give final approval to Awadhi (language code:awa) language.[edit]

Mediawiki has been almost localized in Awadhi language, and work is going on at a rapid pace. Give it final approval, so that it can get its own URL. Amir E. Aharoni ( talk) Thank you. Ajeetsinghawadhi (talk) 18:07, 16 August 2019 (UTC)

Reopen "Proposals for closing projects/Deletion of Bulgarian Wikinews"?[edit]

StevenJ81, who closed the initial discussion, is currently on a long wikibreak. After lengthy suspension, messy disputes, etc, I think the initial discussion of the deletion/closure proposal on Bulgarian Wikinews must be reopened. Not only me, a few other editors believe so as well. The Bulgarian community seems to be running out of alternatives unless I'm wrong. De-sysopping one admin was suggested, but I was convinced that even doing so would mask deeper issues about the project. George Ho (talk) 20:04, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

You can open a "second discussion". Leave what is already there alone. But LangCom is discussing this now, too. I will provide an update when I can. StevenJ81 (talk) 22:03, 20 August 2019 (UTC)

Update on technical issues and other things interfering with getting the process moving again[edit]

I want to give everyone an update on

  • The technical issues (phab:T212881)
  • The two approved projects still pending creation.
  • The four tentatively approved projects still pending language verification.
  • Getting everything else going again.

Technical issues and projects pending creation[edit]

Getting this moving again was identified as a high-priority issue at Wikimania. Its priority at phabricator has been upgraded to high and it is being looked at by the Core Platform Team. I'm hoping this gets the logjam broken and that we can start moving these things along again.

  • The creation of Western Armenian Wikipedia earlier this summer was always going to have a large manual component, because the content was (mostly) being taken from Armenian Wikipedia, not Incubator, Multilingual Wikisource or Beta Wikipedia. So it was always a bit of an anomaly.
  • The recent creation of Neapolitan Wikisource was partly an exercise in seeing quite how broken the existing process was. (Answer: "Very.") Unfortunately, it did not portend the other two projects' imminent creation.
  • If we can get the language verification done on the four tentatively approved projects (next section), then I will try to get at least Hindi Wikisource (approved back in March) created manually. But, quite frankly, if I have to choose between pushing through a project manually and getting the whole process fixed, I'd rather time be spent on getting the whole process fixed.

Projects awaiting language verification[edit]

There is a LangCom member working directly on those now. I believe he has set himself a deadline of 30 September. If it goes much later than that, I will push again.

Other projects feeling they are close to ready[edit]

I am soon going to go back to projects that have been "close to ready" for a while. I am going to give a mild, early preference to projects that are not the first project in a language, so that I can avoid the "language verification" issue. But that is a short list likely be addressed quickly, and then I will move on to projects that are the first project in a language.

I think the main potential issue here is going to be that many test projects went dormant because of all the delays, both technical delays and approval delays. So here is how we will handle these:

  • Projects that have maintained approvable activity levels (3+ months with 3 registered editors making at least 10 edits each per month), or pretty nearly so (OK, they just missed once or twice during the summer), will be moved straight along.
  • Projects that had approvable activity up until a point earlier this year can restore their approvable activity status with a single month of approval-level activity. (I will try to let you know who you are.) That activity level then still needs to continue. But what I mean is that I am not going to wait until you have three more months under your belt to judge the readiness of everything else.
  • Remember that other things required for approval (content, interface translation, etc.) haven't gone away.

Thank you for your patience. I am happy to take process questions here. But please let me work through the list of "nearly ready" I already have, and don't start pushing your projects at me quite yet. I'm already going to have a lot to do, and I have a day job. StevenJ81 (talk) 16:30, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank for your update. For our Mon Wikipedia project, if there are any problem to get contact with linguistics, let me know it. Htawmonzel 12:48, 5 September 2019
Thanks for the update, Steven. Muhraz (talk) 05:15, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Norwegian, and Norwegian Nynorsk: Please revert Wikipedia name change of "Norwegian Bokmål" to "Norwegian"[edit]

"Norwegian" refers to two written languages: Bokmål and Nynorsk. The two languages are by law considered equal, as outlined in the 1980 Lov om målbruk i offentleg teneste (Source: Store Norske Leksikon [1]). Neither Nynorsk nor Bokmål are thus, on the national level, considered a more "correct" form of Norwegian (there are historical and practical arguments in favour of both). Municipalities, on the other hand, can select an official form (or remain neutral), as outlined in this map.[2]

The Bokmål form is favoured by speakers in Eastern Norway including the capital, Oslo, whereas Nynorsk has its stronghold in the more affluent Western Norway. Please refer to the Norwegian language conflict,[3] which in turn has a historical parallel in the Faroese language conflict[4].

The Wikipedia "" used to be called "Norwegian Bokmål", but has recently been renamed simply "Norwegian", even if it does not allow Nynorsk articles: it is a Bokmål Wikipedia. The Nynorsk Wikipedia,, is still called "Norwegian Nynorsk". This appears to me to be an attempt to claim Bokmål as a "natural" form of Norwegian, a view often held in Eastern Norway perhaps because this is the form East Norwegians are more often exposed to, and Nynorsk as a more "specific" form of Norwegian. As pointed out, this does not reflect the official definition of "Norwegian", nor the official standing of Bokmål and Nynorsk as equal. And, before someone mentions the term Standard Østnorsk, I can point out that this (1)is not an nationally approved standard, but merely mentioned by academics (and then as a regional, not a national phenomenon), (2)only refers to speech, and (3)is only spoken in Eastern Norway, as illustrated by the fact that the prime minister Erna Solberg[5] speaks Bokmål with the very different set of phonetics and intonation found in Bergen, (4)the alleged "standard" refers only to East Norwegian Bokmål speech, not to East Norwegian Nynorsk speech, which is also widespread in some places, for instance in large areas of Telemark.

The name change should on the basis of the above be reverted. Narssarssuaq (talk) 14:27, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Could you please specify where exactly you observed this name change? As someone who does not speak Norwegian, I have a hard time guessing where exactly you made the observation which you describe here. FWIW, nowiki claims for itself to be the Wikipedia of Bokmål and Riksmål ("Velkommen til Wikipedia, den frie encyklopedi som du kan forbedre. 518 233 artikler på bokmål og riksmål". Kind regards, --Vogone (talk) 20:30, 7 September 2019 (UTC)
More precisely, my complaint refers to the language which is specified in the leftmost tab on the desktop version of Wikipedia, where you can choose "Norsk" (lit., Norwegian) and "Norsk nynorsk" (lit., Norwegian Nynorsk). The former of the two used to read "Norsk bokmål" (Norwegian Bokmål) - which I demonstrated above to be correct - and it was changed about a year or two ago. As the function of changing languages to read different versions is popular among Norwegians, they use this menu extensively, and the error is thus quite visible. Narssarssuaq (talk) 19:48, 9 September 2019 (UTC)
Does anyone know whether this was done through a local Phabricator task (@MF-Warburg and Liuxinyu970226?) or whether this is something we inherited from the Unicode Common Locale Data Repository? If it was done as a Phabricator, there should have been a local discussion first. But if it's CLDR, then that has to be addressed to CLDR, not locally. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
It's not CLDR's problem; it's Wikimedia's problem that they have a Bokmål Norwegian Wikipedia under the tag "no", which should be for Norwegian in general.--Prosfilaes (talk) 04:31, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, but note that it's two different languages, and fitting both under one umbrella would not be popular. Narssarssuaq (talk) 17:59, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
I have no idea. So a change happened, but nobody knows when exactly and by whom? And it happened "a year or two ago" and Norwegians see it every day, but nobody cared enough so far to investigate? --MF-W 12:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Actually, it took me years to find this page. Narssarssuaq (talk) 17:59, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
Oppose Oppose This isn't a good way to do, as Bokmål ≠ the entire Norwegian, your revert idea will only make Babel boxes parameters wrong, @Narssarssuaq: the much more better way is to rename domain and wikidata site id. Anyway, their community always claim that "we do also have articles in Riksmål", but they eventually didn't provided anyone example of "articles in Riksmål". --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 21:52, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
I was unable to follow your argument. Narssarssuaq (talk) 17:17, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
@Narssarssuaq: cf. Requests for comment/Rename no.wikipedia to nb.wikipedia. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:34, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Also, saying this site as "nowiki" will only make confusions between a commonly used magic word <nowiki></nowiki> and this. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:54, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
I am unable to follow this argument as well. There's nowiki, there's mywiki, there's yowiki, the only thing we can't have is wwwwiki... --MF-W 12:15, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
I don't think you quite understand. What I am suggesting is merely a change in the desktop menu on the left: that is called "Norsk Bokmål" like before, not "Norsk" as it is now. And when you're at it, you may want to change the two into "Norsk (bokmål)" and "Norsk (nynorsk)", which would arguably be the most precise nomenclature. Narssarssuaq (talk) 09:00, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
@Narssarssuaq: That should be fixed in CLDR, not in WMF. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:14, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
@MF-Warburg: mywiki would not make any confusions as anyone who knows this language always trust that my is ISO 639-1 Myanmar, likely yowiki would never have other meanings than Yoruba. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:18, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Lol. --MF-W 23:19, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Simply, both mywiki and yowiki will never make confusions for computing funs, but nowiki can. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 23:32, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Anyway, there are nowikibooks, nowikinews and incubator:Wy/no/Hovedside, if you reverted no to be "Norwegian Bokmål", then these projects will be confusion to new users as it may lead to "Bokmål only". Such a revert will also fit a data bomb on Wikidata as there are two "Bokmål" entries. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:17, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
I don't suppose the MediaWiki (or Wikimedia) infrastructure would allow us to change that only on Wikipedia pages, but not on other project pages ... StevenJ81 (talk) 15:13, 17 September 2019 (UTC)
As far as I can tell, "no" doesn't exist as a locale in CLDR at this point, so it must be handled locally somehow. Was there a change in our "names" table? StevenJ81 (talk) 15:24, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

LangCom formally recommends the closure and deletion of the Bulgarian Wikinews project[edit]

The Language Committee has formally recommended to the WMF Board of Directors that the Bulgarian Wikinews project be closed and effectively deleted. The formal recommendation can be seen at this link. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:09, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

Please close that site as soon as possible, those users who want this project keep open are only think that site as a playground of copyvio. They don't know what's wiki, they are not suitable for wiki. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 22:05, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
The Board has seven days to respond. I asked the Board liaison at 17:15 UTC on 9 September to notify the Board. He responded to me at 23:56 UTC on 9 September that he had done so. So it seems to me that at 00:00 UTC on 17 September I can ask the Board liaison if there were any comments, and when I get a response on that I can proceed. StevenJ81 (talk) 19:27, 11 September 2019 (UTC)