Talk:Language committee/2012

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Proposal: Language Charter of Wikipedia

Hello and Happy New Year! May be, this proposal will be interesting for Language committee.


Language Charter of Wikipedia

I. Project Justification

1. In essence, the language policy of Wikipedia should be limited with just two simple principles:

a) Any internet community using any language which is able to create a quality wikipedia in this language, should have such an opportunity.

b) Unnecessary duplication should be avoided (for example, if there were several wikipedias in English, each of them would have had its supporters. But it would be by expense of the quality of any of them).


2. The problem is to prevent the occurrence of weak projects which discredit the very idea of ​​Wikipedia. Wikipedia's most widely spoken languages ​​with developed literary tradition already established. Therefore, the need arose for a simple formal procedure to select the number of applications for new wikipedia the ones that can have a good prospect.


3. Language Committee established by the Wikimedia Foundation has done in this respect a great work. In particular, it established the existence of a language code, ISO 639-3 as a prerequisite for the adoption of new applications,. I must apologize for not immediately appreciating the significance of this condition. In addition, members of the Language Committee are trying to take into account the total number of native speakers, if a language has an official status and developed online community. The proposed draft of the language charter of Wikipedia summarizes the positive experience of the Language Committee.


4. The main problem of language policy now is that the Wiki incubator has accumulated a huge amount of "dead" projects which are generally not being developed, even without the main page. My proposal allows the clean wiki of obviously dead projects and prevent their occurrence in the future. In order to do it, it is proposed to create another filter: the site "Wiki-creation". If on Wiki incubator the projects can stay for an unlimited time, in Wiki-creation - no more than for a year. If during the year there will be established the main page and at least 30 articles, the project is transferred to the Wiki incubator. If not - the project is closed and can be restarted only in 3 years.


5. All the dead Wiki incubator projects should be closed in a year. "Living" projects (with at least 20 substantive articles) should stay in the Wiki-incubator on a permanent basis, with a guarantee of not being removed. And other projects - only conditionally for one year, during which they will need to create 30 articles and home page. Those projects that do not complete this task will be closed.


6. For the vast number of possible applications Language Charter provides a simple formal procedure: just need to make sure that the language has its own code of ISO 639-3, and over 10 thousand native speakers. Languages ​​without ISO 639-3 code, and without native speakers are immediately rejected. The projects of existing languages ​​with other written forms, historical forms of spelling, etc. must also be rejected


7. Only two cases will require expert assessment of the Language Committee. First of all, this is the case when the language has less than 10 thousand native speakers. Here the main question is whether the Internet community has sufficient resources to create high-quality Wikipedia in a given language? - It is obvious that in most cases the answer is no. However, exceptions are possible. A possible action of the Language Committee is first to offer a creation of "unofficial" wikipedia within Wikia. You can also offer to provide a list of sites in a given language (the Language Committee does it anyway ) and a complete list of books in that language, published in the past 10 years. Already good, if such books and such sites actualy exist.


8. A special case - the languages ​​with the «multilingual» status. In linguistics, there is no clear boundary between language and dialect cluster, dialect continuum, a set of closely related languages. You can create a single literary standard for several closely related languages ​​(a good example - the German language). But Wikipedia can only be created at a macro language, which already has an established literary norm. That means that a language must already be widely used in education and administration. For example, in this regard Akan language is quite valid - in Ghana, this is a literary language, in spite of some literary standards in languages ​​Twi and Fanti.


9. When decisions were made about the closure of existing wikis, in 10 cases this was due simply to their very low activity. This is a wiki for the Herero, Sichuan Yi, Marshallese, Muskogee, Kwanyama, Ndonga, Choctaw, Afar, Kanuri, Hiri Motu. These Wikipedias have been removed from the Wiki incubator, but nevertheless are treated as existing. In showing them as if they were existing there's no point. The very presence of Herero Wikipedia with 0 articles on the list discredits the idea of ​​Wikipedia.


10. Language issues are directly related to the national feelings of people and their national rights. This is a very, very explosive and delicate issue. The general principle of all democratic legal systems is that the rights that people already use, can not be taken away from them. And in general this principle has been established in the community of Wikipedia. So it is unlikely in the future that any Wiki will be closed due to the fact that someone did not like its language. The maximum that can be done with low-quality Wikipedia is temporarily return it to the wiki incubator. It seems that the community of Wikipedia has a consensus on this subject.


11. However, in the past there were four cases of closure of existing wikis because of "wrong" language. This is a wiki on the Siberian, Klingon, Toki Pona, and Moldovan.

In the case of the Siberian language, you can agree that the project was based on the joke. And it's not just about artificial Siberian language. In the end, the Siberian ("chaldonian") dialects of the Russian language do exist. The fact is that the participants of "Siberian" project did not take it seriously. There is no literature and no real online community in "Siberian". But most important is the fact that, although after the closure of Siberian Wikipedia, this project has been moved to another site, it didnґt have any development and has been frozen. So the decision to close the Siberian Wikipedia proved to be right.

In the remaining three cases, the situation is different.


12. The most controversial situation is related to the closure of Moldovan Wikipedia. The question was very politicized. From the perspective of Romanian patriots, any separate Moldovan language does not exist. True, the Romanian patriots also recognize the existence of the Moldovan dialect of Romanian language, which is different from the literary Romanian. Literary Moldovan language uses writing based on Cyrillic and is confusing for Romanians. There is in fact an independent state formation - Transnistria, where the official language is Moldovan, not Romanian. If we accept as a correct one the definition that a "language is a dialect with its army and navy," the Moldovan language is all right. In general, the difference between the Romanian and Moldovan is approximately equal to the difference between Serbian and Croatian, or between Hindi and Urdu.

However, there was put forward a really serious argument against the Moldovan language. The authority of independent Moldova established Romanian as an official language instead of Moldovan. In this regard, ISO 639-3 code was repealed.

But before the Moldovan language had this code. And in the libraries of Moldova there are millions of books (including encyclopedias and dictionaries) which are printed in Moldovan. And, unlike, for example, cuneiform tablets from the library of the Assyrian king Assurbanipal, the books of the Moldovan libraries are still relevant. They were widely printed before 1990, and in Transnistria they continue to print them even now. But even information from encyclopedias of early twentieth century candnot be considered completely outdated: sometimes in the Wikipedia there are texts from the early twentieth centuryґs enciclopedias. So even if we accept the view of Romanian patriots that the Moldovan language does not exist now, they will be forced to recognize that this language existed before, had its own code of ISO 639-3, and had a rich literature, which has not lost its relevance. So, the creation of a separate Moldovan Wikipedia is just as justified as the preservation of books (including reference books and encyclopedias) in the Moldavian language in libraries around the world.


13. The situation with the Moldovan is very similar to the situation with the Serbo-Croatian. If in the first case current politicians argue that two different languages ​ is in fact one, in the second case, they argue that the Serbo-Croatian language - it's actually three different languages ​​(Serbian, Croatian and Bosnian) or four (if we consider the Montenegrin ). Serbo-Croatian also had its own code of ISO 639-3, as the main language in former Yugoslavia. And the strong development of Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia shows that a lot of people still feel Yugoslavs. But most importantly is that Serbo-Croatian has also a rich literature (including background literature) which did not lost its relevance.

A third similar case - the Ottoman Turkish language Wikipedia which is successfully developing in the wiki-incubator. This language before 1923 was the official language of the Ottoman Empire and had a rich literature. In the same time it is quite different from the modern Turkish language considering the vocabulary and uses a different writing system. So it's a different language.

I propose to consider Serbo-Croatian, Moldovan and Ottoman Turkish new historical languages ​​which have the right to have their own wikipedia. Obviously, there are enough people willing to develop wikipedia in these languages.


14. Generally the most bitter conflicts in the language policy of Wikipedia are related to language, without native speakers - historical and artificial. The languages of two removed Wikipedias - the Klingon and Toki Pona - are artificial. Wikipedia on another artificial language - the lingua franca nova - "has been taken into account as existing for a few months." Wikipedia in Quenya removed from the incubator to the Wiki. Sharp conflicts were related to languages ​​like Volapьk (artificial), a Prussian, Greek, Coptic, Phoenician (historical).


15. In general the Language Board has a policy of denying the requests in any language without native speakers. In my opinion, this is absolutely correct. Moreover, it should be officially enshrined in the Charter language of Wikipedia. Still, some of Wikipedia's historical and artificial languages ​​exist. And no one is going to close them. So, before formally prohibit the creation of a new Wikipedia in artificial and historical languages, you should make sure that the list of existing historical and artificial languages ​​Wikipedia is really full and fair, according to the principle: "Say now or be silent forever."


16. First, the historical languages ​​of Wikipedia. They can be divided into four groups: classic, revived, new ones (which have already been discussed) and actually historical.

Classical languages ​​of Wikipedia are Latin, Sanskrit, Classical Chinese, Pali and Old Church Slavonic. These are languages of a huge cultural value, the classical languages ​​of the major world religions and traditional civilizations: Western, Indian, Far East, Buddhism Hinayana and Orthodox Slavs. All of these languages ​​are relevant today. Arabic as the language of Islam should be added to this list, but it is now alive language. Only Ancient Greek really needs to be added here - the language of the European classical education, the Orthodox Church and the Christian New Testament. And then the list of classical languages ​​will be complete. There is no more of them in the world. There are also several local languages of religious liturgy: Tibetan, Coptic, an ancient Ethiopian (Ge'ez), Old Armenian (Grabar), Avestan. But Tibetan is alive language. For the Ethiopian church today is more important Amhara as a language of communication, for the Armenian one - modern Armenian, for Zoroastrians - Farsi and Gujarati.

And the ancient languages ​​such as ancient Egyptian, Akkadian, Sumerian, Mayan classic, Phoenician does not have cultural content and do not serve as a communication tool in any modern human society.


17. Reviving languages ​​of Wikipedia are the Manx and Cornish. This means that there are many people who are representatives of the Manx and Cornish ethnic groups. I know only about two more such examples: Coptic and Prussian languages. And here, in both cases we are talking about ethnic identity. There are a number of people who recognize themselves exactly the Prussians, not the Germans, Lithuanians or Poles. And a very large proportion of Christians of Egypt (several million) are not aware of themselves as Arabs, and Copts. This means that these people will develop their own languages ​​of Wikipedia, which serve as a symbol of their ethnic identity.


18. Thus, it is proposed to limit the number of historical languages of Wikipedia to 15 languages. Among them, six are classical (Latin, Sanskrit, Ancient Greek, Classical Chinese, Pali, Old Church Slavonic), 4 are revived (Manx, Cornish, Prussian, Coptic), 3 are new historical (Serbo-Croatian, Moldavian, Ottoman Turkish) and 2 are historical in fact (English Saxon and Gothic). The existence of the Anglo-Saxon and Gothic wikipedia justified the historical connection of these languages ​​with English and German - the most powerful language of Wikipedia.

So in order to make the list of existing historical languages of Wikipedia complete, it must be supplemented with five languages: Moldovan (which you just need to unblock), Ottoman, Coptic, Ancient Greek (these wikipedias are a wiki-incubator, and the ancient Greek and Ottoman are ready to be transported into Wikipedia right now) and Prussian. Prussian Wikipedia exists in Wikia.


19. Generally, there are 5 "unofficial" Wikipedia in Wikia: on Prussian, Klingon, Quenya, Toki Pona, and Lingua Franca Nova. Moreover, all five "unofficial" – Wikipedia are actively developed projects: the most recent Wikipedia in Quenya has 156 articles, on Klingon - 189 articles, Prussian – 291 articles, Toki Pona - 427 articles and Lingua Franca Nova - 2655 articles. (!) Pay attention to the main argument against these Wikipedias: "Because of the limited language they cannot create a full article." This argument is refuted by the volunteers of five informal wikipedias: they have proved in practice that wikipedia in these languages ​​can be created.

Therefore, I propose to add to the list of eight existing artificial languages of Wikipedia (Simple English, Esperanto, Volapuk, Ido, Intelingua, Novial, Interlingua, Lojban) four more languages. These are the languages ​​that had previously been expelled from Wikipedia: Klingon, Quenya, Toki Pona, and Lingua Franca Nova. Of course, all the common and popular artificial languages ​​were among the 12 artificial languages of Wikipedia. And the list should be closed forever.

Wikipedia on the Lingua Franca Nova can be directly transferred from Wikia to Wikipedia. A Quenya, Klingon, Toki Pona, and Prussian deserve to be returned to Wiki incubator.


20. Languages ​​Quenya and Klingon often contrasted with other artificial languages ​​on the basis that, letґs say, the Lojban or Volapuk are "serious" projects, and Klingon and Quenya are "playful ones", "weird" languages. But in reality supporters of Quenya and Klingon are not a company of jokers. In these games they play very seriously. Among all artificial languages ​​Quenya and Klingon are inferior only then Esperanto in degree of popularity. They are taught to children. They have "paper" media and a large number of sites on the Internet. Poems, songs and even a rock opera are written on them. When in Russia during 2002 census there was allowed to specify any ethnicity, several thousand people called themselves elves. And for most of them it was not a joke. This is their real identity. In fact, Quenya and Klingon are two successful projects of creating an alternative ethnic culture. They deserve to create their own wikis, and will actively promote them.


21. But if someone from the Wikipedia community are still not tolerant to Klingons or other artificial or historical languages, they are also able to express themselves. The proposed draft lof the Charter provides for the right to boycott any artificial or historical language of Wikipedia, with the exception for simplified English, Esperanto, Latin (the official language of the Vatican) and Sanskrit (one of the official languages ​​of India).


Thanks to everyone who took the time to read this!


 

We offer you a draft Charter language Wikipedia with the transitional provisions. It can cause a lot of questions and comments. The huge request: please, before making these comments, read the Project Justification.

Project

II. Language Charter of Wikipedia

1. Language Committee created by the Wikimedia Foundation determines the language policy of the Wikimedia Foundation on the basis of the principles set forth in this Charter.


2. None of the existing Wikipedias in any language can not be closed.


3. In the case of the low quality of existing wikipedia in any language Language Committee may temporarily move it to the Wiki-incubator, with a clear statement of reasons. After correction of these issues, this Wiki should be returned to the Wikipedia. While in the incubator wiki pages of this wiki can only be accessed from the Wiki-incubator, and this wikipedia is not considered and is not marked as current, with the relevant notes.


4. The application for the creation of Wikipedia in the new language is accepted in case if:

a) there is no existing project in a given language in Wikipedia, Wiki-incubator or Wiki-creation ;

b) the language has its own code of ISO 639-3 with the scope «individual»;

c) the site «Ethnologue» indicates the number of carriers of the language as a native language for at least 10 thousand people.


5. If the number of native speakers of a language as a mother tongue is less than 10 thousand people, but the language satisfies a) and b) of the paragraph 4, e.g. has a rich literature and a strong community on the Internet, then that application may be accepted as an exception.


6. Application for a language with the scope «multilingual», meeting all the other requirements of the paragraph 4, shall be made only in case if the language has an official status of a language of administration and education.


7. It can not be drawn into the language without code ISO 639-3, as well as the already existing language Wikipedia, including his other historical forms, spelling, another system of writing, slang or dialect without custom code ISO 639-3.


8. Historical languages of Wikipedia: Latin, Sanskrit, Pali, Classical Chinese, Cornish, Manx, Old Church Slavonic, Serbo-Croatian, Anglo-Saxon, Gothic, Moldovan, Ottoman Turkish, Ancient Greek, Prussian, Coptic.

Artificial languages ​​of Wikipedia: Esperanto, Simple English, Ido, Intelingua, Volapuk, Novial, Intelingue, Lojban, Klingon, Quenya, Toki Pona, Lingua Franca Nova.

An application of creation of Wikipedia in any other language that has no native speakers cannot be accepted.


9. Latin, Sanskrit, Esperanto and Simple English have equal rights with the living languages ​​of Wikipedia. Cross-references to articles in Wikipedia on other historical and artificial languages ​​may be removed from the pages of Wikipedia in other languages. The decision about it is taken by the Wikipedia community of the corresponding language.


10. Any application for a new Wikipedia is considered by the Languages ​​Committee no later than for three months.

In case of rejection of the application by the Languages ​​Committee, the new application for the creation of Wikipedia in the same language may be presented not earlier than in five years after the rejection of the previous application. An application submitted before that day will be considered invalid.


11. In the case the application is accepted by the Languages ​​Committee , a page on the website "Wiki creation" is created for it. At least 30 substantive articles of the new wiki, and a main page should be created during the year since the inception of the page. If this condition is completed in one year a new Wiki is transferred to Wiki incubator.


12. The residence time for a wikipedia in wiki incubator is not limited. Once it reaches a sufficient level of development (a few hundred items of satisfactory quality), this wikipedia is transferred into Wikipedia and listed as existing.


13. If within one year stay in the "wiki creation" new Wikipedia could not reach the level of development referred to in paragraph 11, the application will be canceled and the corresponding Wikipedia page of the project deleted. A new application for the creation of Wikipedia in the same language may be submitted no earlier than in three years after the cancellation of the previous one. An application submitted before that day will be considered invalid.


14. Language committee shall determine its policy with respect to the other Wikimedia projects. As a general rule, applications for these projects can only be made by representatives of the existing Wikipedia.



III. Transitional provisions


1. Wikipedia on Lezghian (lez), Kichwa - Chimborazo Highland Quichua (qug), Salar (slr), Tachelhit (shi), Yucatec Maya (yua), Lower Silesian (sli), Ancient Greek (grc) and Ottoman Turkish (ota) should be transferred from the Wiki incubator to the Wikipedia.


2. Wikipedia in the language of Lingua Franca Nova (lfn) redeployed from Wikia to Wikipedia.


3. Wikipedia in Prussian (prg), Klingon (tlh), Quenya (qya), Toki Pona (tok) transferred from a Wikia to the wiki incubator.


4. Moldovan (mol) Wikipedia should be unblocked.


5. Previously closed Wikipedias in Herero language (her), Sichuan Yi (ii), Marshallese (mh), Muskogee (Creek) (mus), Kwanyama (kj), Ndonga (ng), Choctaw (cho), Afar (aar), Kanuri (kr), Hiri Motu (ho) should be completely deleted from Wikipedia. These projects are no longer counted as present. They are treated as projects of Wiki incubator.


6. Due to changes in the rules wikipedias in the following languages are removed from the incubator: Middle English (enm), Middle Dutch (dum), Old Georgian (oge), Old High German (goh), Norn (nrn), Old Turkish (otk), Dalmatian Vegliot (dlm), Baybayin Tagalog (tgl), Mandarin Chinese (cmn), Creoles and pidgins (crp), Mayan languages (myn), Old Norse (non), Sindarin (sjn), Old Tupi (tpn), Franc-Comtois (x-fc), Old French (fro), Kurmanji (kmr), Ancient Aramaic (oar), Multilingual (Old) (another's ISO 639 code: old), Prekmurian (invalid ISO 639 code: pkm), Bolgarian (xbo), Tamazight (another's ISO 639 code: amz), Basay (byq), Pig Latin (another's ISO 639 code: pig), Basa Wringinanom (another's ISO 639 code: wra).

These projects can be optionally transferred to Wikia.


7. In Wiki incubator in accordance with paragraph 12 of the Charter there are Wikipedia in languages: Adygei (ady), Alabama (akz), Gheg Albanian (aln), Angika (anp), Mapuche (arn), Algerian Arabic (arq), Moroccan Arabic (ary), Tunisian Arabic (aeb), Ainu (ain), Araona (aro), Northern Altai (atv), Southern Balochi (bcc), Berber (ber), Badaga (bfq), Bakhtiari (bqi), Brahui (brh), Kaqchikel (cak), Chin (chi), Chukchi (ckt), Coptic (cop), Capiznon (cps), Central Dusun (dtp), Ese Ejja (ese), Central Yupik (esu), Fataluku (ddg), Tornedalen Finnish (fit), Cajun French (frc), Gilbertese (gil), Goan Konkani (gom), Gurani (hac), Hiligaynon (hil), Xiang Chinese (hsn), Ingush (inh), Ingrian (izh), Jamaican Creole English (jam), Krymchak (jct), Khowar (khw), Kirmanjki (kiu), Khorasani Turkish (kmz), Krio (kri), Kinaray-A (krj), Karelian (krl), Kumyk (kum), Zayein Karen (kxk), Liv (liv), Lakota (lkt), Ladin (lld), Northern Luri (lrc), Lushai (lus), Laz (lzz), Madurese (mad), Morisyen (mfe), Minangkabau (min), Manchu (mnc), Jamiltepec Mixtec (mxt), Central Nahuatl (nhn), Niuean (niu), Mezquital Otomi (ote), Panamint (par), Plautdietsch (pdt), Pipil (ppl), Rapanui (rap), Rarotongan (rar), Tarifit (rif), Rakahanga-Manihiki (rkh), Megleno Romanian (ruq), Sassarese Sardinian (sdc), Seri (sei), Shan (shn), Kildin Sami (sjd), Seraiki (skr), Southern Sami (sma), Swabian (swg), Tulu (tcy), Tokelau (tkl), Kok Borok (trp), Tausug (tsg), Northeastern Thai (tts), Tuvinian (tyv), Kulon-Pazeh (uun), East Franconian - Mainfrankisch (vmf), Votic (vot), Wilamowicean (wym), Nenets (yrk), Isthmus Zapotec (zai), Standard Zazaki (zza), Prussian (prg), Klingon (tlh), Quenya (qya), Toki Pona (tok), Herero (hz), Sichuan Yi (ii), Marshallese (mh), Muskogee (Creek) (mus), Kwanyama (kj), Ndonga (ng), Choctaw (cho), Afar (aar), Kanuri (kr), Hiri Motu (ho).


8. Wikipedia in the following languages are in the wiki incubator temporarily and conditionally:

Aranadan (aaf), Abaga (abg), Lampung Nyo (abl), Abaza (abq), Ambonese Malay (abs), Baharna Arabic (abv), Saint Lucian Creole French (acf), Acoli (ach), Cypriot Arabic (acy), Adangme (ada), Adhola (adh), Aghem (agq), Aghul (agx), South Levantine Arabic (ajp), Aklanon (akl), Alutor (alr), Southern Altai (alt), Amis (ami), Amarakaeri (amr), Uab Meto (aoz), North Levantine Arabic (apc), Awadhi (awa), Libyan Arabic (ayl), South Azerbaijani (azb), Baluchi (bal), Balinese (ban), Basa (Cameroon) (bas), Batak Toba (bbc), Ghomala' (bbj), Indonesian Bajau (bdl), Betawi (bew), Balti (bft), Eastern Balochi (bgp), Banggai (bgz), Bhili (bhb), Bima (bhp), Tukang Besi South (bhq), Biak (bhw), Edo (bin), Bakumpai (bkr), Bodo (India) (brx), Burushaski (bsk), Akoose (bss), Batak Dairi (btd), Batak Mandailing (btm), Rinconada Bikol (bto), Batak Simalungun (bts), Bateri (btv), Batak Karo (btx), Batak Alas-Kluet (btz), Bulu (Cameroon) (bum), Basay (byq), Chuukese (chk), Chinook jargon (chn), Cia-Cia (cia), Shor (cjs), Kavalan (ckv), Chulym (clw), Haka Chin (cnh), Pu-Xian Chinese (cpx), Chittagonian (ctg), Northern Catanduanes Bicolano (cts), Chol (ctu), Dargwa (dar), Dido (ddo), Demisa (dei), Dogri (dgo), Dime (dim), Dolgan (dlg), Dameli (dml), Dungan (dng), Western Dani (dnw), Duala (dua), Dusun Deyah (dun), Dyula (dyu), Ekari (ekg), Central Siberian Yupik (ess), Even (eve), Evenki (evn), Ewondo (ewo), Fala (fax), Filipino (fil), Kven Finnish (fkv), Fordata (frd), Gayo (gay), Galela (gbi), Garhwali (gbm), Guadeloupean Creole French (gcf), Gujari (gju), Nanai (gld), Gorontalo (gor), Swiss German (gsw), Wayuu (guc), Farefare (gur), Kalami (gwc), Gawar-Bati (gwt), Hazaragi (haz), Southern Hindko (hnd), Chhattisgarhi (hne), Huachipaeri (hug), Huastec (hus), Sabu (hvn), Purari (iar), Iban (iba), Ibibio (ibb), Ili Turki (ili), Isoko (iso), Istriot (ist), Itelmen (itl), Jambi Malay (jax), Judeo-Tat (jdt), Ngomba (jgo), Yamdena (jmd), Jingpho (kac), Ketangalan (kae), Kabiyu (kbp), Khanty (kca), Kalanga (kck), Karaim (kdr), Kabuverdianu (kea), Kei (kei), Ket (ket), Kanikkaran (kev), Kachchi (kfr), Kumaoni (kfy), Komering (kge), Kaingang (kgp), Khasi (kha), Tukang Besi North (khc), Sheshi Kham (kip), Khakas (kjh), Kiliwa (klb), Kalasha (kls), Kendayan (knx), Koryak (kpy), Bafia (ksf), S'gaw Karen (ksw), Kerinci (kvr), Kwinti (kww), Lachi (lbt), Tolaki (lbw), Lawangan (lbx), Ledo Kaili (lew), Lahu (lhu), Li'o (ljl), Lampung Api (ljp), Lozi (loz), Dholuo (luo), Maithili (mai), Makasar (mak), Mam (mam), North Moluccan Malay (max), Central Mazahua (maz), Mandar (mdr), Motu (meu), Pattani Malay (mfa), Bangka (mfb), Mayo (mfy), Ma'anyan (mhy), Western Xiangxi Miao (mmr), Muna (mnb), Manipuri (mni), Min Bei Chinese (mnp), Mansi (mns), Mon (mnw), Mongondow (mog), Mohawk (moh), Kota Bangun Kutai Malay (mqg), Mamasa (mqj), Manggarai (mqy), Mangareva (mrv), Maranao (mrw), Mundang (mua), Musi (mui), Peripheral Mongolian (mvf), Duri (mvp), Mentawai (mwv), Hmong Dawb (mww), Tlahuitoltepec Mixe (mxp), Nigeria Mambila (mzk), Nama (Namibia) (naq), North Ndebele (nde), Nias (nia), Ngaju (nij), Nganasan (nio), Nivkh (niv), Ao Naga (njo), Kwasio (nmg), Northern Thai (nod), Nogai (nog), South Ndebele (nr), Niuafo'ou (num), Northwestern Ojibwa (ojb), Tohono O'odham (ood), Paumarн (pad), Bouyei (pcc), Nigerian Pidgin (pcm), Piti (pcn), Pahari-Potwari (phr), Pijin (pis), Pоkoot (pko), Pukapuka (pkp), Palembang (plm), Pamona (pmf), Papuan Malay (pmy), Pinyin (pny), Dari (prs), Central Malay (pse), Tarascan - Western Highland Purepecha (pua), Cajamarca Quechua (qvc), Margos-Yarowilca-Lauricocha Quechua (qvm), Huaylla Wanca Quechua (qvw), Northern Conchucos Ancash Quechua (qxn), Qashqa'i (qxq), Rajasthani (raj), Rejang (rej), Romagnol (rgn), Rakhine (rki), Tae' (rob), Rotuman (rtm), Rutul (rut), Central Okinawan (ryu), Sasak (sas), Santali (sat), Saurashtra (saz), Shina (scl), Toraja-Sa'dan (sda), Southern Kurdish (sdh), Selkup (sel), Sentani (set), Kipsigis (sgc), Shughni (sgh), Shall-Zwall (sha), Xibe (sjo), Sikule (skh), Sika (ski), Lule Sami (smj), Inari Sami (smn), Simeulue (smr), Sumbawa (smw), Southern Thai (sou), Thao (ssf), Upper Saxon (sxu), Tabassaran (tab), Central Tarahumara (tar), Torres Strait Creole (tcs), Tai Nьa (tdd), Teso (teo), Tindi (tin), Tunjung (tjg), Dangaura Tharu (thl), Tsakhur (tkr), Talysh (tly), Tamashek (tmh), Tontemboan (tnt), Papantla Totonac (top), Tobian (tox), Torwali (trw), Tsakonian (tsd), Tsou (tsu), Muslim Tat (ttt), Tuvalu (tvl), Tonsea (txs), Tzeltal (tzh), Central Atlas Tamazight (tzm), Udi (udi), Unami - Delaware/Lenape (unm), Urum (uum), Huarijio (var), Tenggarong Kutai Malay (vkt), Wakhi (wbl), Wallisian (wls), Warapu (wra), Waxianghua (wxa), Kambera (xbr), Malayic Dayak (xdy), Manado Malay (xmm), Sherpa (xsr), Yagnobi (yai), Yaqui (yaq), Yangben (yav), Yidgha (ydg), Nhengatu (yrl), Southern Yukaghir (yux), Zou (zom), Zuni (zun), Youjiang Zhuang (zyj), Ahirani (ahr), Baniwa (bwi), Chuukese (chk), Fe'fe' (fmp), Ga (gaa), Western Gurung (gvr), Hangaza (han), Limbu (lif), Mbugu (mhd), Okanagan (oka), Palula (phl), Eastern Tamang (taj), Tucano (tuo), Nugunu (Cameroon) (yas), Istro Romanian (ruo), Ter Sami (sjt).


9. Should Wikipedia in any language listed in paragraph 8 of the Transitional Provisions reach up to 01/10/13 [date conditional. - IR] the level of development under paragraph 11 of the Charter language (at least 30 articles of satisfactory quality and well done home page), this Wiki will receive permanent status in the wiki incubator in accordance with paragraph 12 of the Language Charter.


10. All of Wikipedias, listed in paragraph 8 of the Transitional Provisions, which until 10/01/13 [date conditional. - IR] does not reach the level of development under paragraph 11 of the Charter language (at least 30 articles of satisfactory quality and well decorated Home) will be removed, and the application for the relevant language - repealed according to the paragraph 13 of the Charter.


11. All previously submitted applications to create new wikis, except those listed in paragraphs 7 and 8 of the Transitional Provisions (as well as the existing language Wikipedia) shall be considered as rejected in accordance with paragraph 10 of the Language Charter. New applications for these languages ​​can be made not earlier than in five years since the adoption of this Charter.


12. Rejection of an application to create a wiki in a language entails the automatic rejection of applications for the creation of other projects of the Wikimedia Foundation in that language.


13. In the Notes to the Official List of Wikipedia should be only the following points: "redirect" (for nan only), «decrecated» (for Alsatian only), "deleted" (for Siberian wiki and «September 11 Wiki»), «returned to Wiki-Incubator "(for the Herero, Sichuan Yi, Marshallese, Muskogee, Kwanyama, Ndonga, Choctaw, Afar, Kanuri, Hiri Motu, Toki Pona, Klingon) and "Languages ​​without code ISO 639-3, using duplicate or invalid code", as well as links to Wiki Incubator, Wiki creation and the list of rejected applications. The right to edit these notes in English will be given only to the members of the Language Committee.


14. All new Wikipedia projects applications accepted by the Languages ​​Committee, will continue to be posted on the website "Wiki creation" in accordance with the paragraphs 11 and 13 of the Language Charter.

--Paccoxa (talk) 12:44, 03 January 2012 (UTC)

Language committee/Status/wv/fa

Hi, Can one of members update status of Persian Wikiversity project? Zack90 18:02, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

sanskrit wikiquote update

can one of the members update the status of sanskrit wikiquote and wikisource projects.--pakalon (talk) 05:16, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

eml.wiki -> egl.wiki ?

Your feedback would be really important at Talk:Cooperation_of_Wikimedia's_Italian_regional_projects#Resuming.--Nickanc 12:38, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

I would remember that EML community voted against separation : eml:Wikipedia:Sondaggio-separazione-EML-RGN. -- Dragonòt 09:32, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Wikipedia Prekmurian – ISO code for Prekmurian is rejected

The request for the ISO code of Prekmurian is rejected 1. Here is the what do I do this now: Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Prekmurian? Without code is not possible? As the Prekmurian is used language in the newspapers and books in Hungary (other Slovene dialects not) and few German dialects have wikipedia. Doncsecztalk 18:21, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Lower Silesian Wikipedia

Hi! I translate all required MediaWiki interface translations, please check it on Language committee/Status/wp/sli. It's last requirement for approval. Regards, --Äberlausitzer 15:49, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Translation of this page

Why is this page only in English? Eraserhead1 (talk) 19:59, 19 February 2012 (UTC)

Request for update

Can you please give an update for Wp/lus ([1]) as given here [[2]]? Thanks in advance. (RMizo (talk) 18:11, 9 March 2012 (UTC))

You can have a look at the localisation progress on this page (69 core messages still need to be translated). For the activity requirement, see this - I can tell you that it's not fulfilled because activity only really started this month. --MF-W 18:26, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Clarity of the requests page

As a Wikipedia user who likes to check up on the development of new language versions from time to time, I have noticed that this page has become increasily unwieldy in the recent years. (NB: not the requests process itself, only the way it is displayed here!) The reason, of course, is the sheer number of requests, both pending and finished. The list has grown very long because

a) the section for "recently closed requests" contains many that have been dealt with not recently, but many years ago
b) the "open" requests section includes a great number of reqs which have been dormant without any significant activity for many years as well.

I would like to suggest moving those requests which have been closed or dormant for a long time from the main requests page in order to increase clarity and usability. Maybe one could

a) move requests which have been closed more than, say, three years ago to some kind of archive page and
b) move open requests which have been declared eligible but have shown no activity for a long time to a seperate section for eligible but inactive requests (from where they could be moved back to "open" the moment they become active again).

That way, the main "Requests for new languages" page would be much more concise than it is at the moment. It would then clearly show which requests are currently being dealt with or have been dealt with in the recent past, which I guess is the main purpose of this page.

Stefan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 188.174.158.226 (talk) 11:27 UTC, 13 March 2012‎

It can be easily seen when new requests were added or the status of a request changed by sorting the list according to the date. I think it is difficult to distinguish between active and inactive requests here because it should be easily visible at once if there's a request. Plus, it might be that for a long time, nothing interesting happens on a request page, but that the work on the corresponding project (i.e. software localisation, test project editing) is high nevertheless.
I renamed the "recently closed" section to "Closed requests" as it seems to list all decisions about approving or rejecting a request Langcom ever made. The listing could probably be moved to a subpage. --MF-W 15:01, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Slovene Wikiversity: update

Hi, I think the criteria for the Slovene Wikiversity have been met now, the test project analysis lists at least three active not-greyed out editors,[3] the interface has been translated, and there are no objections anymore. (see also User talk:Gmeijssen#Slovene Wikiversity: Interface translated) --Eleassar my talk 11:16, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Manager is need for

hi.Manager is need for.I'm need for management tool/ What do.? [4] .--E THP (talk) 12:40, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Do you mean you would like to become an administrator on gag.wikipedia? In that case, please have a look at Steward requests/Permissions. --MF-W 17:03, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Selena Gomez fan interfering with langcom's activities

FYI: a long-term puppeteer, so called "Selena Gomez fan" regularly interferes with langcom's activities i.e. Special:Contributions/Ж or Special:Contributions/Uncyclopedia. He's a child living in Philippines with a weird obsession for central Asia-languages and chapters. --Vituzzu (talk) 14:17, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

How can you be a part of the LangCom

Hi! I don't see at the page how are the members of the LangCom chosen... I think it would be really important to explain that as a way to show how can the community be a part of it (not just as an observer). For example, I don't see anyone from South America, Oceania and Eastern Asia at the Committe and I think this committee should be more inclusive and incorporate people from different regions of the world, reflecting how diverse we are. --200.83.219.59 13:57, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

LangCom is selected through the mailing list (langcom-l(_AT_)lists.wikimedia.org). About the locations, the committee does not bother about the locations, but the user. Finally, langCom seems very inclusive. ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 23:17, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

Emilian Wikipedia and some help

Hi, it is my view that the current situation, where Emilian and Romagnol come under the auspices of one Wikipedia project, isn't appropriate. The dialects within each language are often not mutually intelligible when spoken or read in more than a simple way, but this effect is yet more pronounced between the two languages to the extent where SIL agreed to split them. As such, I wanted to propose that the dual-language Wikipedia be split. However, it appears that a proposal for an Emilian Wikipedia has already been made. I know this because I went to go through the proposal process and was notified that this project had been rejected (*). It appears the contributor who deleted the project has since gone inactive. I could not find the discussion for the outcome he (and presumably others) came to. Could anyone provide it? I've come across an incubated project for Romagnol. Is the idea to move the Emilian-dominated Wikipedia to Emilian Wikipedia if and when that goes live? Omgosh30 (talk) 18:17, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

This has recently been discussed by the community on eml.wikipedia.org, and it was decided that the project should be split (for more info, please see here). The Romagnol content of eml.wikipedia.org was moved to Incubator, and eml.wikipedia.org is requested to be renamed to egl (=Emilian).wikipedia.org. --MF-W 18:28, 21 March 2012 (UTC)
Please note that EML community decided (http://eml.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bar#Emiliano_e_Romagnolo) that the romagnol pages could be removed only when the EML Wiki will be renamed. -- Dragonòt (talk) 07:49, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
It is requested (see bugzilla:34217) and will be done. However, there are some problems with renaming wikis that need to be solved first. --MF-W 11:49, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Талышская Википедия

Добрый день. Я хочу создать языковой раздел Вики на Талышском языке.Мои знания компьютера не профессиональное но кое что понимаю. В списке заявок на новый языковой раздел моя заявка обозначается как Discussion. Как можно его активировать? благодарю за поддержку.--Ganbarzada (talk) 16:02, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Здравствуйте,
Спасибо, что напомнили об этом. Статус заявки скоро будет обновлён.
Пока я очень советую вам писать новые статьи в "Инкубаторе" Талышскoй Википедии.
Я вижу, что вы уже перевели основбе сообщения MediaWiki на сайте translatewiki.net, и это очень хорошо. Я советую также продолжить переводить ещё непереведённые сообщения MediaWiki. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 09:18, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

Smaller wikis and upload

Feel free to comment on the RfC as this committee primarily deals with smaller wikis. -- とある白い猫 chi? 08:50, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Hello,
The people mostly active on the small wiki's like uploading, importing etc etc are already involved in that discussion. :) Huib talk Abigor 10:22, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
This is true, but the committee may want to consider commenting as they deal with assessing smaller wikis (such as deciding when a wiki has matured enough to break off of the incubator). -- とある白い猫 chi? 16:16, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

gsw /als

I didn’t know where to ask so I'm ask here, feel free to move this question to the right place

Hi,

Where can I found discussion about the als/gsw lang ? (presently the URL is wrongly als.wikipedia.org instead of gsw.wikipedia.org and there is no redirect unlike nan.wikipedia.org).

Cdlt, VIGNERON * discut. 19:13, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Hi, see for example bug 23215. Regards, SPQRobin (talk) 01:29, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

List of awaiting and past actions

I think it would be helpful if such a list was created. It is difficult to follow what happened to what wiki, when (I realize everything is logged but I feel it would be helpful if all this was in one table). Also in the case of agreed wiki renames, these remain permantly on hold due to software-related problems.

I am not sure if such a list exists that is why I am asking here first.

-- とある白い猫 chi? 21:35, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

Is incubator:I:Site creation log what you are looking for? If not, please explain what you mean with "actions". Regards, SPQRobin (talk) 02:31, 25 February 2012 (UTC)
My concern is more about tasks awaiting to happen such as rename of projects. -- とある白い猫 chi? 19:32, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
We have a tracking bug for wiki renames (bugzilla:19986). --MF-W 19:36, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Right but an on wiki table would be helpful. Information like when the decision was made, link to that discussion etc. would certainly be helpful. -- とある白い猫 chi? 20:00, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Korean Wikiversity

We all translated MediaWiki messages. Please check activities and start approving Korean Wikiversity. --관인생략 (talk) 01:21, 29 May 2012 (UTC)

Congratulations on having completed the interface translation; however there seems to have been little to no activity on Beta.Wikiversity's Korean section in the last few months, with activity only really starting in this month. Before the project can be approved, the test project needs to be active for some months. --MF-W 14:47, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
So how long do we have to activate our wikiversity? Two months include May and June is enough? What happens if the MediaWiki messages uploads while activating our wikiversity? --관인생략 (talk) 03:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Do you mean what happens when the MediaWiki messages get updated so that the localization requirement is not fulfilled anymore? This is not very probably to happen in a large scale, so it shouldn't be a problem to do a bit of message translation work then again.
For the first question, I can't give you a definite answer, as the Committee does not decide because of numbers only, but 2 months is still to little time of activity. --MF-W 18:39, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

Limburgish Wikinews

Is there still anything left to be done? I've just finished translating the last messages. Perhaps we should become a bit more active? --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 09:37, 25 May 2012 (UTC)

I've brought the issue up for discussion on the mailing list. --MF-W 16:19, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, please keep us informed :) --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 09:51, 29 May 2012 (UTC)
Could you please address the orthography issues mentioned at Requests for new languages/Wikinews Limburgish? Which spelling variant is nowadays used in the different Limburgish projects? --MF-W 14:57, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Wikinews uses practically the same spelling as Wikipedia now. You could verify the recently created pages at the community there. This spelling is also used at Wikisource, Wikibooks, and Wikiquote. Wiktionary and Wikisource (which is "bispellingual" or whatever it's called) use a different spelling for the main interface but Wiktionary (as it's a dictionary) also accepts dialectual entrees. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 18:45, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. And which of the spellings is it? :-) --MF-W 19:19, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
Wikinews uses the Veldekespelling which is "official" in East-Limburg :) --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 09:28, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Any developments? :P --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 14:49, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Eh well, let me put it like this: It would be good to see more users who are continually active. This doesn't mean that we require all contributors to be as active as you (but we would like to see that of course :D), but one or two more contributors who edit regularly wouldn't harm. --MF-W 17:59, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Okay. I'll place a notice for the currently semi-active users that a bit more activity might help in the pub :) --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 13:32, 15 June 2012 (UTC)

Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Zazaki

I noticed incubator:Wp/kiu which is also a Zazaki dialect. Is this a duplication? Wouldn't diq.wikipedia be the location for the content as since the start it is intended to include both dialects if the closing comments are to be believed. -- とある白い猫 chi? 19:23, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

No, please see SIL: diq is Southern Zazaki, while kiu is Northern Zazaki. Both being a dialect for the code zza (Zazaki). --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 10:05, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Right but the scope of diq.wikipedia is to include both dialects., am I incorrect? -- とある白い猫 chi? 15:41, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I think that is what the community has tried to do, but we have to stick to the ISO codes, so the domain is solely reserved for Dimli contents. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 17:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
That is OK, but if the community wants to include both dialects maybe it is wiser to rename the wiki to a macro language code (zza) as the local community requested. There seems to be a duplicated effort at the moment. -- とある白い猫 chi? 18:40, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Renaming wiki's is probably not an option for the coming years (because of technical issues). Our policy is to let the SIL ISO codes decide in cases like these. There are separate codes for Southern and Northern Zazaki, so they probably differ sufficiently from one another to have their own separate projects. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 20:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I am fully aware of the technical issues. Reaching consensus should come before developer involvement. My worry is Zazaki is currently on four locations at once: incubator:Wp/kiu, incubator:Wp/zza, diq:, ku: ([5]). I do not mind whatever consensus is reached. I just am sensing duplicated effort. -- とある白い猫 chi? 21:59, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
To me it sounds like there are two options: either close all projects accept for the Standard language project (Wp/zza) or keep all three dialect wikis open. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 14:35, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
There are only two dialects of Zazaki in existence. zza is the macro language code for both. -- とある白い猫 chi? 01:24, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
What dialect is used at ku:? Macrolanguages are generally not given a Wikipedia. In the past, wikis have been closed because the represented a macrolanguage. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 08:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
I believe the content is in Diq dialect. ku.wikipedia was more than reluctant to let diq wikipedia separate. I do not believe the pages have recent edits or are up to date but to a new user in particular this can be confusing. -- とある白い猫 chi? 01:37, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
Even to older users it's pretty confusing.. But if I'm right, ku.wiki uses contents in several dialects with the majority being written in Zazaki (diq). In that case, the diq-contents of ku.wiki should be transferred to diq.wiki. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 14:48, 12 June 2012 (UTC)
I unfortunately cannot distinguish the two dialects. Chases are they might have been transwikied eons ago but never deleted. It might be helpful to consider what was imported to diq.wikipedia. -- とある白い猫 chi? 15:19, 12 June 2012 (UTC)

Wn/vi (2)

Please update again Language committee/Status/wn/vi. This project has over 100 content pages, some test-administrators and remain active until today (see recent changes local). Thank you. --minhhuy (talk) 13:01, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi, first of all, please note that the updating of the status pages is not really an important thing. Second, then, that status page cannot be updated at the time because the only thing that is still missing before going into final approval is the "develop an active test project" point. Once the Language Committee thinks that this is fulfilled, it will go forward.
However, in the case of wn/vi, activity has only restarted in May, after a one-year-"pause". So it is unlikely that it will be considered as active enough at the moment. --MF-W 15:26, 20 June 2012 (UTC)

Question about Korean Wikiversity

Hello, Good to see you. I'm not english speaker and I can write unskilled english. If I have a mistake, please forgive me :)

Can I ask you about Wikiversity approval criteria? I anticipate at least 3~5 months and 5 active editors. That is not satisfactory conditions? KO Category (Korean Wikiversity in BETA wikiversity) is activated, 2 months, 250+ articles(including templates. Please check it : [6]). I do not think that article number is necessary condition. Because NL's article in betawikiversity is more 1,000. But NL wikiversity is not established yet. I'm confused.. Please give me a answer, thanks you for your service :) --Sotiale (talk) 14:02, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

Ability to edit closed/locked wikis

It would be helpful to have edits on these wikis for cleanup purposes. I realize stewards have this access but perhaps this can be extended for non-content non-controversial/trivial edits to these wikis. I'd be particularly interested if bot edits to these wikis for routine cleanup. -- とある白い猫 chi? 21:43, 24 February 2012 (UTC)

I think that Wikimedia Forum should be better for the proposal. ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 21:28, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
No need for routine clean-up I'd say. The test-project is imported to the Incubator. Routine clean-up should be done there. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 19:18, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
This answer is not true. Moldovan Wikipedia is not in Incubator! This situation is SHAMEFUL! --Paccoxa (talk) 21:55, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
And what does this comment have to do with the topic? --MF-W 21:09, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
This topic has name "Ability to edit closed/locked wikis". What is not clear? --Paccoxa (talk) 23:20, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
What does that have to do with the Moldovan Wikipedia? --MF-W 12:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC) (PS: you might want to log in, otherwise you should sign as user:Paccoxa --MF-W 12:48, 26 March 2012 (UTC))
In my opinion, the Moldovan Wikipedia is to be unlocked - at least for routine cleaning. Answer "No need for routine clean-up I'd say" on the Moldovan Wikipedia is shameful. (PS: I am really user:Paccoxa).--Paccoxa (talk) 21:01, 26 March 2012 (UTC)
Editing mo.wikipedia is useless. All contents will be overwritten by the contents at Wikimedia Incubator if a test there is accepted. Therefore: routine clean-up at mo.wikipedia is pointless, a waste of time and a waste of resources. --OosWesThoesBes (talk) 14:29, 16 May 2012 (UTC)
This is true but the wikis should then be removed from view and perhaps completely deleted (since all content is imported to incubator). Copyrighted material, broken interwiki links and other such issues affects live wikis as well. -- とある白い猫 chi? 19:33, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
To my mind, the history about the Moldovan Wikipedia is shameful generally. Paccoxa 19:34, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

Рутульская энциклопедия

Доброго времени суток. Прошу ответить на несколько вопросов:
1) Насколько я понял в инкубаторе уже создана рутульская энциклопедия (http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/rut). Если я ошибься то поправьте. Но почему-то при выборе языков (например здесь http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences) - рутульского языка (rut) нет. Почему? Появиться ли он там?
2) Что нужно чтобы вытащить рутульскую википедию из инкубатора в основную часть википедии?
3) Распространяются ли права адмнистратора на все языковые разделы википедии (т.е. русский админ может контролировать пользователей из французского и из английского разделов) или только на один раздел? Могу ли я стать администратором в рутульской википедии или универсальным адмнистратором(если такое есть)? Я рутулец, и думаю что мой труд будет полезен и вам и моему народу.
4) Как создавать шаблоны для страниц в инкубаторе? Будут ли эти шаблоны продолжать работать после перемещения инкуботорской википедии в основную часть википедии также как и в инкубаторе?

=====================================================================================================================================

Good morning. Please answer a few questions:
1) As I understand it in the incubator already been created Rutul Wikipedia (http://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/rut). If I am wrong then correct me.
But somehow when selecting from language list ​​(for example here http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences) - Rutul language (rut) is absent there.
Why? Does it come there?
2) What do I need to get the Rutul wikipedia from the incubator into the main part of Wikipedia?
3) Do the administrative rights on all language versions of Wikipedia (ie Russian admin can control the users of the French and the English sections) or just one section? Can I become an administrator in Rutul wikipedia or generic admnistratorom (if possible)? I rutul (rutulman), and I think that my work will be helpful to Your and to my nation.
4) How to create templates for pages in the incubator? Will these templates continue working after moving from the incubator to Main part of of Wikipedia?


P.S. Sorry my English is bad.

RutulGada (talk) 13:39, 23 July 2012 (UTC)

Hello,
1) Yes, the Rutul Wikipedia test wiki exists in Incubator at incubator:Wp/rut. - In Special:Preferences, the language you select at "Language:" is the language in which the MediaWiki software interface appears. Rutul cannot be selected there at the moment, because there is no Rutul translation of the interface yet. You can translate on translatewiki.net. — On Incubator, you also have "Test wiki:" and "Test wiki language:" in your Special:Preferences. There you can choose the wiki you are working on ("Wikipedia" and "rut" in your case; currently you have selected "Incubator"). These preferences are responsible for helping you to edit the correct Wikipedia test project on Incubator.
2) Please see the Language proposal policy for this: The most important parts of the interface need to be translated & the Rutul Wikipedia in Incubator needs to have activity.
3) Administrator status is a local status, which only affects one wiki. So an admin from the Russian Wikipedia cannot use the admin tools on the French Wikipedia. There are also global sysops, but they have other tasks. - You can become a test-administrator for the Rutul Wikipedia on Incubator, as you already have noticed.
4) You can create these on Incubator; the name must simply start with the prefix Wp/rut/. They will continue to work after the test project will move to an own subdomain, yes.
Best regards, --MF-W 14:57, 23 July 2012 (UTC)



Thank you very much for Your answers
RutulGada (talk) 07:28, 24 July 2012 (UTC)RutulGada

About the reports

I'm asking this in the July report, please comment below.

Questions to the readers:
  • Do you read the Langcom reports regularly?
  • Do you find them informative? Are they comprehensive enough? Do you feel well-informed about the Langcom's proceedings?
  • Any comments, questions, criticism?

--MF-W 23:46, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

  • I read the Langcom reports about once every week.
  • The recent "update" of the system makes it more useful than it used to be. More test wikis are included in the reports than older reports (such as this one) and it is clearer what still needs to be done.

--OosWesThoesBes (talk) 20:14, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

  • Thanks; in fact I have to say that I added this after we discussed the state of Limburgish Wikinews per your question above. Until that, I had not added those brief discussions to the reports. But I will surely keep to include them, It is also good to hear that they are helpful. --MF-W 21:15, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
  • Yes, I read the Langcom reports, about once a month or so.
  • I'm very interested to hear more about working with the Google Endangered Languages efforts. We need to get some synergy going with other groups so that our efforts build on each others'. I'd also be interested to see whether we can find some synergy with organizations like First Voices and Wikiotics. --Djembayz (talk) 01:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
    We have now filled an application form (at [7]) yesterday and are now waiting for a response. I will add a more detailed explanation of our thoughts, well, in the next report update ;) --MF-W 21:15, 25 July 2012 (UTC)
    Updated. --MF-W 23:01, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

About establishing Korean Wikiversity

Hello! Since 2007.02, Our Wv/KO has been BETA. Many months passed, some surprising outcome didn't exist. However, for recent 3 months, We have endeavored to establish Korean Wikiversity. As a result, We have 359 articles, including Korean template and sandbox contents. Also, We make tremendous edit counts. Please check it: pathoschild's statistics tool. And Wv/KO meets some condition (for example, translation, etc.). In my humble opinion, We can request for approving establishment. I plead you with you to review this request. Thank you for your hard work. Regards, Sotiale (Talk·Contribs) 08:38, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Please find below the text of a comment I made 4 days ago on the mailing list of Language committee:

Hi,

I'm doubtful. The test's activity phases go back as far as Aug. 2008, but it was also very dormant during the whole of 2010 and the beginning of 2012. Looking at the edits of the last four months, I see that in May the user Sotiale and 2 other logged-in users edited; in June there were 7 users with edits ranking from 12-54, while Sotiale made 3000(!) edits. In July similarily, Sotiale made about 1300 edits, 8 others each around 10 - 80. Then, in this month there is a considerable drop of activity (of course counting in that this month is not yet even half over: Sotiale made 17 edits, in total there were 25. Obviously, Sotiale is a very enthusiastic contributor, while there are a number of others who are there but not sooo active. I tend to think that approval might too early for now,
- given that the vast majority of the activity depends on one user only
- given that the current level of activity only started in May, and already shows signs of decreasing again*
Best regards, MF-Warburg
*I realise that people just might be on holidays in August, but then let's wait until September :-)

--MF-W 14:50, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Oh.. this is pity fact.. But this is true.. I devoted my all time to establishing Wv/KO. But recently, I'm busy at other projects as admin. That is why my contribution count is decreased. I will gather many editor.. Thank you.. :) Sotiale (Talk·Contribs) 15:09, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Well, it is not so much a problem that your edits decreased (I see for this month it is now: you - 186 edits, Jinmuk2520 - 162 edits), but indeed that a larger number of editor will be good. --MF-W 15:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
How many people needed? at a guess.. 5~10 editors regardless of editcount? Sotiale (Talk·Contribs) 15:33, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Such a number of regular contributors would be good, yes. The edit count is important in a certain way, because a project where "the vast majority of the activity depends on one user only" can easily become inactive. --MF-W 15:40, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
(edit conflict) First, I'd like to point out that I'm not a LangCom member, but the key here is "regularity". 5 contributors are enough if they become regular with time. Remember that edicounts are only guidelines, not a requirement in itself, but the contributors must be "active". Amqui (talk) 15:45, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
OK. Can I have more question? Although it is future things, local logo and setting (for example, namespaces) must be complete discussed? and How temporary adminship appointed? Sotiale (Talk·Contribs) 15:47, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Sure, you are always welcome to ask questions. You're right, you should start a discussion with the community to come up for logo and local settings. I invite you to read the FAQ of Wikiversity beta. Administrators on Wikiversity are called "Custodians". You can read about them here. You should look for the support of the community on your Beta Wikiversity before asking for temporary rights. Amqui (talk) 15:51, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
No, I mean whether such things are positively necessary or not. And test-admin concept don't exist at Wikiversity BETA. In addition, I'm already permanent custodian at BETA. I'm curious that if Wv/KO established, temporary sysop is appointed? or elected by community? Sotiale (Talk·Contribs) 15:59, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
Yes I wrote "test" instead of "temporary", it was my mistake and I edited my previous answer to you. For the fact if you have a permanent or temporary sysop on your project, it depends of the size of the active community. If the active community is too small, you'll be able to request sysop rights through Steward requests/Permissions. Amqui (talk) 16:02, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
It is not necessary to have finished discussions about such things before the approval. You can always change the logo later, or request new namespaces later. - When ko.wikiversity.org will be created, you can make a local community election of administrators, and they will be granted the rights by stewards. If there are not enough participants in the elections, the stewards will appoint the candidates to be temporary admins instead. --MF-W 16:05, 17 August 2012 (UTC)
I understand all :) Thanks a lot, your answer is enough. Have a good time! Sotiale (Talk·Contribs) 16:08, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Vilamovian

I want to show some revisions on this page. So, administrator Millosh hold this proposal and say that this wiki will be verified when there will be at least one native speaker. And he appeared! And what? much months have passed, but no one paid attention to it. This user was active, but now he appears his activity fewer and fewer. Maybe it makes sense to qualify this project at least now? Personally I can help in project's development. Greetings,--Tamara Ustinova (talk) 20:24, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi, I have brought this question up on the Langcom's mailing list, and there were no comments about it. As there is a valid ISO 639-3 code for the language, it can be seen eligible (I will update the status on the request page soon). Contributions to the test wiki are of course welcome. --MF-W 23:21, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
Marked as eligible now. --MF-W 21:11, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Becoming a member

Good morning,

I am linguist specializing in Iranian and Semitic language and an active editor as well. How can I propose myself to join the committee? --Orel Beilinson (talk) 08:56, 29 July 2012 (UTC)

You may request it by emailing langcom-l(_AT_)lists.wikimedia.org . ~~EBE123~~ talkContribs 13:32, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
Yes indeed, please write a mail with your application to the mailing list if you want to become a member (or an observer). --MF-W 14:14, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
I added a note about this to the page itself. I tried to add the translation tag properly there. SJ talk  06:53, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
You were almost correct ;-) Doing the translation section numbering manually confuses the software, it is done automatically when a translation admin marks the version for translation. Interestingly, the Members subpage already contained info on how to become a member, it was just in noinclude-tags, for whatever reason [8]. --MF-W 07:06, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Request for an update of the Livonian Wikipedia project

I would like to see an update of the status page on the Wikipedia Incubator project in Livonian (Language committee/Status/wp/liv). One of the contributors to this project has recently made an update there, however, I am not certain that the procedure was valid. Should it not be too difficult to present these, I would also appreciate any further guidelines, ideas or discussion on how to develop the project further so that it could be created as a full-fledged Wikipedia project. (Which essential features are still missing?) -- Ohpuu (talk) 09:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

We are now considering the approval of the project. --MF-W 16:04, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

Requests for new languages and for two updates/Wikipedia Kari Seediq

Hey,I check the http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Language_committee/Status/wp/trv ,and that project is in lie with the first and the second requirement,please check,thank you.Songyanzhi (talk) 14:08, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

Hi, on a first glance, the proposed project seems to be eligible; the Langcom will check it in further detail. --MF-W 14:52, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
Thanks,understood.Songyanzhi (talk) 12:40, 28 August 2012 (UTC)


Ancient Greek Wikipedia

Is there any potential for reopening this decision? I'm rather sure it'd be more active than just about every proposal open right now. It seems arbitrary that Latin exists, Gothic exists, and Old English exists, just because they were created at point x, but Ancient Greek cannot because it wasn't yet created at said arbitrary date. The policy clearly isn't working correctly or consistently here. 60.242.48.18 13:33, 29 March 2012 (UTC)

This has only recently been discussed by the committee. Some members were in favour of making an exception from the policy here, and some not. There are good reasons for both opinions, but please note that most prominently, having a Wikipedia in these languages does not help to fulfill Wikipedia's goals, because the absence of a Wikipedia in these languages does not exclude anyone from "freely sharing in the sum of all knowledge". The fact that Latin Wikipedia exists is not of importance here, because it was created before the policy existed. Besides, it was also noted that regarding the current state of the test wiki, it is doubtful whether it would be verified by a linguistic expert as written in genuinely Ancient Greek. --MF-W 14:03, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I understand the concerns raised, though I would not necessarily agree with the conclusion inferred. Wikipedias have an enormous degree of power over endangered and extinct language maintenance and preservation, regardless of whether this responsibility is acknowledged or not. Refusing to institute an Ancient Greek Wikipedia does not avert a difficult decision - it is indeed a potent decision with a measurable impact on that language in and of itself (the Bachrach & Baratz [1962] concept of 'non-decisions' as exercises of power springs to mind). A goal of facilitating access to human knowledge lends itself well to an argument being made about promoting languages which encode much of that knowledge: Ancient Greek - the language of the thought underpinning Western civilisation - being perhaps the best example. Latin Wikipedia's existence is indeed of consequence here - you have a gatekeeper role, and freezing access through that gate for certain entities, only after other entities achieved such recognition, is inarguably inconsistent. A murderer is not grandfathered under a new criminal code because he had already been on a killing spree before the code went into effect. The current state of test Wiki is easily explicable given the obscurity of the Incubator; a claim as to the scarcity of Ancient Greek speakers is quite unsubstantiated. Ancient Greek is a language taught more commonly than the vast majority of the world's languages. A number of Ancient Greek speakers, some of extreme skill, are to be found on en:wiki, amongst others.
I do realise there is quite an amount of inertia invested in the current policy, but I cannot but find that policy broken. An Ancient Greek Wikipedia would not be a drain on Wikimedia resources, nor would it necessarily have to set a precedent. If you believe the current policy to be just, there is absolutely no reason to keep any of the other extinct-language Wikis. Saying "Latin was fine then, is fine now, and shall be fine in the future; but Greek was too late, sorry, you're out of luck" does not seem to mark an effective application policy; it is arbitrary, and seemingly largely a decision made for fear of facing community backlash from those existing projects. I strongly urge you to reconsider. Permitting the creation of an Ancient Greek Wikipedia is decision with measurable benefits and absolutely no adverse impacts. 60.242.48.18 14:46, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
[Proposal: Language Charter of Wikipedia. I. Project Justification:] 16. [...] Classical languages ​​of Wikipedia are Latin, Sanskrit, Classical Chinese, Pali and Old Church Slavonic. These are languages of a huge cultural value, the classical languages ​​of the major world religions and traditional civilizations: Western, Indian, Far East, Buddhism Hinayana and Orthodox Slavs. All of these languages ​​are relevant today. Arabic as the language of Islam should be added to this list, but it is now alive language. Only Ancient Greek really needs to be added here - the language of the European classical education, the Orthodox Church and the Christian New Testament. And then the list of classical languages ​​will be complete. There is no more of them in the world. [...] The ancient languages ​​such as ancient Egyptian, Akkadian, Sumerian, Mayan classic, Phoenician does not have cultural content and do not serve as a communication tool in any modern human society. --Paccoxa (talk) 21:27, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
I can understand an Ancient language "Wikisource" such as Ancient Greek, Ancient Latin, Ottoman Turkish etc. as there are scores of texts that survived until today but I do not see the point of a "Wikipedia" which is intended for newer content. You run into problems with modern inventions such as the Television or the Computer and get stuck with not having Ancient Greek translations? Also who would be able to read this wiki? No one exists with the ability to read now dead languages aside from a few select experts. -- とある白い猫 chi? 16:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
The Harry Potter books in Latin and Ancient Greek were produced and were sold. Paccoxa (talk) 14:25, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
That is quite irrelevant. Any TV channels? Newspapers? Radio shows? How many native speakers? Questions like these matter. -- とある白い猫 chi? 14:05, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
You are wrong. It is relevant. There are 274 languages of opened wikipedias and only about 70 languages of Harry Potter translation. More than 200 languages of Wikipedia are not languages of Harry Potter translation. But ALL languages of Harry Potter translation are languages of Wikipedia. Except Ancient Greek ONLY. And show me, please, any TV channels, newspapers or radio shows in the such alive languages of Wikipedia, as Pontic? Latgalian? Picard? Extremaduran? Etc. From Wikipedia: "Ancient Greek is still taught as a compulsory or optional subject especially at traditional or elite schools throughout Europe, such as public schools and grammar schools in the United Kingdom. It is compulsory in the Liceo classico in Italy, in the gymnasium in the Netherlands, in some classes in Austria, in Croatia in klasicna gimnazija and it is optional in the Humanistisches Gymnasium in Germany (usually as a third language after Latin and English, from the age of 14 to 18). In 2006/07, 15,000 pupils studied Ancient Greek in Germany according to the Federal Statistical Office of Germany, and 280,000 pupils studied it in Italy. Ancient Greek is also taught at most major universities worldwide". Paccoxa (talk) 21:37, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
I do not see the relevance. We do not base our criteria for new languages based on harry potter translations. ethnologue.com reports it as extinct. -- とある白い猫 chi? 19:29, 3 June 2012 (UTC)
Your statement is very interesting. You said: "We do not base our criteria for new languages based on harry potter translations". I personally don't know such criteria for the Language committee, except own code ISO 639-3. OK, good! If the Language committee HAS OWN CRITERIA for new languages, SHOW it, please! It is very interesting for a people! Paccoxa (talk) 17:15, 06 June 2012 (UTC)
LangCom does not list everything they do not use. ethnologue.com would be a good start if you want to read about linguistic analysis of a language. -- とある白い猫 chi? 22:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  1. "LangCom does not list everything (criteria for new languages) they do not use" - And it is SHAMEFUL, because simple formal criteria (including ethnologue.com) for new languages MUST be. The absence of such criteria creates a space for stupidity and arbitrariness. Unfortunately, we are seeing it in practice.
  2. See about it my: Proposal: Language Charter of Wikipedia. I don't know, why it was sent to archive "2012", because 2012 is still continuing.
  3. From "Language Charter of Wikipedia. I. Project Justification": 1. In essence, the language policy of Wikipedia should be limited with just two simple principles: a) Any internet community using any language which is able to create a quality wikipedia in this language, should have such an opportunity...
Ancient Greek HAS this internet community (some thousands teachers of Ancient Greek!). That's all. Paccoxa 22:30, 18 June 2012 (UTC).
  1. Lang com does not use a lot of irrelevant websites. It is pointless to list everything they do not use.
  2. It was archived because no one showed interest to the particular thread. It was archived to 2012 since it was last discussed in 2012.
The thousands teachers of Ancient Greek are not native speakers. This isn't the point of wikipedia language editions. -- とある白い猫 chi? 19:15, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
"The thousands teachers of Ancient Greek are not native speakers." - There are about 20 millions edits into English Wikipedia from India. And only about 2 millions edits into Hindi Wikipedia. The majority of Indian English speakers are not native speakers. And so on. Your argument is quite irrelevant. Ancient Greek internet community is able to create a quality wikipedia in this language. It is relevant, as English internet community in India. Paccoxa 19:19, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
It's silly thinking that non-native languages are bad: what about en:esperanto? we have a wiki for it. Obviously, certain codified ancient languages could be treated as historically relevant languages as well as if they were like artificial ones: the Ancient Greek community is able to talk in this language, maybe not as the ancient greeks, but in good way. Let Ancient Greek Wikipedia start!--Nickanc (talk) 20:09, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Generally non-native languages are bad. But a couple of them (including the Ancient Greek) is the exception. Paccoxa 19:22, 28 June 2012 (UTC)
There is a Church Slavonic wikipedia and I doubt there are native speakers. I think existence of fluent speakers/classes/modern leterature should suffice. Such wikipedia can help 1) to preserve the language 2) to learn the language for those who are interested.--188.32.214.144 15:41, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Localisation Wp/azb

There are some problems for Wp/azb: http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Portal:Azb & http://toolserver.org/~robin/?tool=codelookup&code=azb & http://translatewiki.net/wiki/Special:Translate?task=untranslated&limit=2000&language=azb&group=core-0-mostused . How can this problem be solved?--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 17:56, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Hi, the Language committee is currently discussing the issue of (South) Azerbaijani. As for the localisation, maybe this should be done under az-arab. Regards, SPQRobin (talk) 19:25, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Yes.this True.(az-arab).--5.120.200.1 05:56, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
It's good.--Ebrahimi-amir (talk) 09:00, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
yes,this is good (az-arab).E THP (talk) 17:50, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
When it is checked،(az-arab).E THP (talk) 17:50, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
(az-arab) also have problems (look). We want to start translating mediawiki to this language, before our wiki goes real. Because as stated in here, it's a requirement. Regards, موسا (talk)
  • ISO 639-3 code: azb
  • Language name in english: South Azerbaijani
  • Language name in its own:تورکجه
  • writing direction: RTL
  • Writing script: Arabic
  • Fall-back language: English

.--E THP (talk) 16:14, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism on diq.wikipedia

Dear Colleagues! There is a massive vandalism at diq.wikipedia from Erdemaslancan. I'm the sysop on the page. He has previously used different names ((Abramoviç, Tadiranscopus, Calanor, Arde, Newos) and now he used my name (like Mirzali2, Mirzali3, Mirzali4 etc.) to drift mischief. Please, look at here! --Mirzali (talk) 11:43, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Dear Colleagues! this user Mirzali,he is sysop of the wiki but he cant use the wikipedia,and he is too late,he dont know how to use Wikipedia,he should be away from the Wikipedia.and he is wrong,there is too many problem we have with him.He is blocking all users..He is vandal..We dont have any problem with Erdemaslancan.

Mirzali should not be sysop,he know nothing about Wikipedia and he cant use it.He dont care wikipedia Zazaki,he have special problems with us,we are all time working for wikipedia but he dont want it and he blocking us,because of the dont want that we are working for wikipedia.You are all can control it,you are will see the right... best regards...

I don't know problem of diqwiki exactly. But I don't understand this situation. Whether the reason Mirzali blocked Erdemaslancan is improper or not, many sockpuppet accounts harassment is not right method. I looked diqwiki recentchanges, it was a real shock. What is wise/intellectual resolution? If Mirzali abuses his/her sysop tools, Erdemaslancan can ask any stewards and meta community about it. But Erdemaslancan choose sockpuppet. --Sotiale (talk) 13:20, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Dear participators,there is not any problem between we and you are.We are working for our language but the people who are like Mirzali being obstacle to us.In a week just for one or two days being interested with Wikipedia and just changing the main page.So,he think that he can manage the wikipedia with just change the main page.But we,we are working for contribution in wikipedia. Here is one example ; the Iran article ,please check the edit history of the page ; here is the link ;İran, Finland, Afghanistan and USA.--Erdemaslancan (talk) 13:24, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
I cannot discern problematic edits easily. Can you please point and explain detail for me? If you do, it can help me understand the problem exactly. --Sotiale (talk) 13:34, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


only the problem is user Mirzali.as long as remove him from wikipedia,we can open 10,100,1000 fake account.Here is the contributions : '

I have over 20,000 contribution on wiki but why Mirzali did not complain me to you are ? he humiliated me in Translalewiki in public.Mirzali is schizophrene,here is the evidence: Sysop abuse:Mirzali. Our just demand is that abolition of his user rights. Dear Sotilate we know each other from betavikiversity,have you are seen any fault about me on there,about vandalism or another?the decision is yours..regards...--Erdemaslancan (talk) 13:54, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

I know your effort for establishing Zazaki Wikiversity. It seems good, of course. But That's another story. I read Requests for comment/Sysop abuse:Mirzali and your mention. Can I have a question? What is your block reason? political contents? (And plus, I cannot decide anything. I can just comment about this problem.) --Sotiale (talk) 14:16, 28 September 2012 (UTC)


There is no reason about the block,there cant be any reason if one person is schizophrene,the reason of blocking is that cant use true the Zaza language and the reason of why i have many accunt is Mirzali. Calanor,Arde and Newos,these one are not me,and did not belonging to me.Abramoviç and tadiranscopus are was belonging to me and the reason was that Mirzali blocked me.Mirzali's smear campaign about me and the results:
  1. [9]
  2. [10]. --Erdemaslancan (talk) 14:36, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Hi dear Sotiale,Im Arde, (Arde and Newos,both are mine).the problem is bewteen we and Mirzali is that,we are working for Wikipedia,and he is blocking us for no reason.My main account Arde,i made many contributions on diqwiki with this account.And Mirzali blocked me for no reason.All parts of the day I worked for diqwiki,here is the my contributions,please check it http://diq.wikipedia.org/wiki/X%C4%B1susi:%C4%B0%C5%9Ftiraxi/Arde and Mirzali blocked me for no reason.and Later I opened new one accunt and i started to make new contributions and he again blocked me for no reason.I want to make contributions on diqwiki but he hampering me.He cant manage the diqwiki,we dont want him on wiki,He is harmful to diqwiki.Please remove him from diqwiki,otherwise we will continue to open new accounts on diqwiki..

your's respectfully.. Arde (talk) 14:53, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Only my adivce, opening new accounts is not the way to go to reach solution. Coming here or other places to discuss the issue, so stewards can fix it for you, is the good way to go, and you may need to be patient. This is infortunate, but by creating other accounts, you are in fact aggravating the problem. Since he keep block you on diq Wikipedia, I suggest you open a discussion on meta about that, maybe with a new Requests for comment. Amqui (talk) 17:29, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Dear Amqui,he cant manage the wikipedia,problem is this.He cant do it!.We are (I and Erdemaslancan), when we are creating new articles on wikipedia for wikipedia,he is blocking us.He dont want to develop the Zazaki wikipedia and we are opening new accounts for make contributions to wikipedia and he again blocking us.Our demand is just this,he should go from Wikipedia..Okay,I will open a new discussion on meta,thanks for your suggestion Arde (talk) 17:59, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
I understand what you mean, but global sysop or stewards need to hear the full story before they can take action, and they need to hear both sides. Here on language committee, we can give you comments and advice, but we cannot take any action, so that's why I suggest you to open a new discussion so the problem can be solve with an open discussion. Amqui (talk) 18:16, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
You will need to give more details on the Request for comments page. Amqui (talk) 18:25, 28 September 2012 (UTC)
Did you are check the page i created? Arde (talk) 18:31, 28 September 2012 (UTC)

Checking exact launch date of a wiki

Hello! Please help me. To create an encyclopedic article about a wiki, I want to know how to check myself, when a particular wiki is strated/launched exactly? Is there any easy way or tool for that? Please help! --tari buttar [talk] 03:34, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Hi, if the wiki was created after 2006, its creation date is listed on incubator:I:SCL. Otherwise, you can also check Special:PermaLink/1 on every wiki to see when the first edit was made. --MF-W 13:06, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for the reply. I've big confusions. Please take a look and try to answer every question:
  1. Which is considered the launch date of the wiki, the date the test version started using incubator like "wn/en" etc. Or the date it came to existence having own website after test? For example: I checked using Special:PermaLink/1 on en.wiki it take me here telling the first edit was made on January 26, 2002 but in the article English Wikipedia, the launch date told to be January 15, 2001. Do launch date and first edit differs? If yes, how to check/found the launch date? Is there any other way?
  2. I've checked using Special:PermaLink/1 but the pa.wiki told me, "there's no such special page".

Please help regarding both the problems. Thanks. --tari buttar [talk] 03:45, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

@1: There is the date on which the test project on Incubator was created; and the date on which the own subdomain was created. A lot of wikis (all those which were created in 2006 or earlier) did not have Incubator projects, they started with an own subdomain immediately (however, often only the website was created, and contributors started much later). For the English Wikipedia, the date from here is wrong, because it first used another software. Therefore, 15 Jan 2001 is of course correct.
@2: Try pa:Special:Permalink/1? --MF-W 19:39, 5 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply but I'm still in confusion. Please check pa:Special:Permalink/1 yourself, read what the page is saying and help me reaching a conclusion regarding, "what is the launch date of pa.wiki?"

Also, I'll be grateful if someone tell me where I can report a user creating duplicates, having stiff proud attitude, direct attacking and being rude & unwelcoming in talk? Any central point to report as there is no local one exists. And please answer both the questions above. Thanks a lot. --tari buttar [talk] 09:56, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, pa:Special:Permalink/1 (which is a redirect to [11]) says that it is the "Revision as of 12:00, 3 June 2002". Therefore, pa.wikipedia.org was launched on 3 June 2002. Note however, that this does not necessarily mean that editing on pa.wikipedia started on that day too - as [12] shows, the next edit on the Main Page was only 2 years later in 2004.
About reporting a user: If there are local active administrators, you should report it to them. Otherwise, you can go to Vandalism reports (if it is vandalism & local sysops are not avaiable), or you might want to consider to open a Requests for comment about it. If you have more questions about that, you're most welcome to ask. --MF-W 00:53, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
Thanks a lot MF-W and are you sure that this is not a case like the English wiki (where Special:Permalink/1 shows the first edit was made on 26 Jan. 2002 while the actual launch date was 15 Jan. 2001). Can you please check for any such case regarding pa.wiki? Thanks a lot for all the help. --tari buttar [talk] 14:06, 8 October 2012 (UTC)
I have searched, and have found nothing that suggests that this is a special case; so pa.wikipedia.org was indeed launched on 3 June 2002. The first date on which articles were created in it, is however 2004, according to en:Wikipedia:Multilingual statistics (2004). Hope this helps --MF-W 16:28, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Cont.

(creating this section bcz I, using current device, unable to edit more that 5000 characters)

Hey, MF, it's great analysis you did thanks a lot but what should I do? Should I use 3 June 2002 on it's encyclopedic article or that 2004. Also, confused a little about en:Wikipedia:Multilingual statistics (2004)'s chart; it's saying August 2004, right? --tari buttar [talk] 14:29, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

Yes, the chart says that the first three articles were created in August 2004. In an encyclopedic article, you can write "The website pa.wikipedia.org was created on 3 June 2002, but it was not until August 2004 that articles were written". --MF-W 15:19, 11 October 2012 (UTC)
Oh thanks a lot, MF-W for all you did. I, now, understand that first edit was not to an article that was for another content page but August 2004 is the date of article space edit, right? Thanks. --tari buttar [talk] 01:48, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
Correct. That first edit was a "placeholder Main Page". --MF-W 22:02, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

Absence of Comity in Asia

Only one member of the comity is located in Asia, and only in India. May be this is fine for covering the problems of Brahmic languages (in South Asia). But there's a clear lack of understanding the issues in East Asia (China, Japan, Koreas), and a minor interest for covering South-East Asia (notably Indonesia, Vietnam, Burma, Laos...) that have specific needs not covered in India (including major difference in how their local scripts are encoded in Unicode).

I really suggest more involvement of the Language comity in the Asian region, which is still underrepresented.

Africa also is a complex issue and only one member in a country with moderate intereactions in English is clearly insufficient. We should seek members with knowledge of problems in Central Africa, and notably in countries wherre English is much less prevalent as a secondary language (replaced by French or Portuguese, or Arabic), because there are lots of languages in this region (Cameroun is an exception as it has dual French and English coverage, but if you look arounf the Congo, nobody is present, not even any expert with enough knowledge working from Europe or America).

Europe is really over-represented in this language comity (and notably English), despite almost all its most common languages are very well covered in Wikimedia (their language projects are now not in their infancy). As a consequence, too much importance has been goven including to regional European languages with a very small native community with some thousands of people, compared to Asian and African communities which are counted in many millions.

Time to release some European seats for : East Asia, South-Est Asia, Central Africa, and may be even one for South America (need to cover Amerindian languages), but please keep the only one seat occupied by a French native (necessary at least as a liaison for Central, Western and North Africa). Let's keep just someone that has a good knowledge of various Romance languages, one for various Germanic languages, and one for the various Nordic and Baltic languages (may be merged with Germanic languages ?), and one for the various Slavic languages (covering a very wide area from Europe to Asia, from Serbia to Mongolia). We could keep also the Greek seat (but this seat would be interesting as well for covering Coptic and semitic languages, as Greek is the cultural link between Europe and Western Asia)

I hope that someday the Language comitee will be able to cope with all major modern scripts, with some knowledge of other important scripts in the same regions. Missing scripts that need more much more support in Wikimedia include: Ethiopic, Burmese, the sinographic script (CJK). Better supporting scripts is still the first need before better supporting the languages written with them !

Asia and Africa really need to be better covered (and I can't understand why Korean and Chinese contents are not more developed than they are today, even though there's no technical barrier today in softwares, and an excellent local equipment level for accessing the Internet from Korea, Japan and China; if a barrier exists, it is IMHO a problem of the interfaces still being developed too much for Latin-written languages, and a severa lack of communication from English contributors, developers and WM committees in those VERY IMPORTANT languages).

My demand here also matches one of the main goals that have been detected during the Planification process and approved by the WMF for the next Five Years. Let's not forget it, of the Planification will fail its goals ! As contribution is now leveling in Europe and America, the development has still a lot to grow in Africa and Asia (and let's not use the excuse of poorer countries, as there are also experts from those regions that we have failed to detect and recruit where they really are).

OK, the language comity members should be able to discuss and document things in English, but they also have to act as liaisons with other members and between the cultures. Each one should be able to work with a list of translator embassies in order to document or implement all the necessary features that are now very well developed in European languages (if this requires technical knowledge, they should also be able to locate developers, or good Wikimedian editors to perform the necessary porting, including the adaptation of a set of templates and tools deployed in all localized projects, so that they will be as "easy" to use and verify as they are in European language projects.

For now, I still think that the Language commitee cannot cope with its goals. And even if the number of voting members must remain small, it should really invite more experts as advising non-voting members, to help explaining and solving the issues in specific groups of languages and scripts (don't assume that what is documented in English is sufficient, you can't bar the on-the-field experience and their demands, even if this looks strange for you or it is not the current top standard currently used in English).

Let's see how many members are needed (I ignore English here as it will be spoken or written by every member in the comity):

  1. Chinese, Japanese and/or Korean (should speak and write in Chinese and Korean directly, but may get advising help for Japanese)
  2. Arabo-persian and other major Semitic languages (should also speak Arabic and Persian, possibly Urdu as well, with interest in Hebrew or Yiddish)
  3. South Asia (India, Nepal, Bhutan... : should speak and write in Hindi/Devanagari and probably Tamil, other advising experts will be needed for the many languages of India)
  4. South-East Asia (Indonesia... : should speak Indonesian, and Vietnamese, with good knowledge of various minority language, and interest in native languages of Oceania; help will be needed for Burmese, Lao, Khmer, Thai, Javanese; good understanding of most non-Latin scripts of the region will be a must, even if the associated languages are not all known...)
  5. Romance languages (should speak French and Spanish, possibly Portuguese, with interest in Amerindian languages and Carribean creoles)
  6. Germanic, Nordic and Baltic languages (should speak German, and at least one Nordic language, with some knowledge for Finno-ugrian languages)
  7. Slavic (at least Russian, and some other language: Ukrainian, Serbian, Bulgarian; plus good relations with experts for other central Asian languages)
  8. Central Africa (should also speak French, probably Portuguese as well, with knowlgedge of some Nigero-Saharian or Congolese languages)
  9. East Africa (should speak Ethiopian and Malagasy, probably Swaheli, and probably Arabic as a lingua franca for interchange in the region)
  10. Greek/Coptic (should also speak Hebrew and may be some European Slavic language, and interest in Turkish and Arabic)

All members in the Language committee should be able to work in at least 4 languages (2 for their own group, possibly 1 from the other groups, and English).

Board liaison is not counted here, it will be added as a non-voting adviser seat is needed or if not already represented in the members above.

Thanks. verdy_p (talk) 04:40, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

According to your words, why don't you add Central Asia and Turkic languages (should speak Turkish and Azerbaijani, with knowledge of Uzbek, Kyrgyz, Turkmen, and Kazakh(Kazak), may interest in Mongolian, Russian, Persian, Arabic, and Chinese). --Arjanizary (talk) 18:30, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Hello, I think there is a misunderstanding here about how the Language Committee works: The main task really is deciding about the eligibility of languages for new Wikimedia project editions, not about directly participating in these. For example, if there is quite a number of projects in regional languages of Europe, this is not because the langcom has any preference for them! But because of contributors from these languages who are active there. The same requirements apply for all projects.
Languages like Chinese, Japanese, Korean also already have all or almost all of the projects.
Additionally, it is not the language committee which deals with issues of script support etc. - this is mainly done by Wikimedia's Localisation Team. Of course establishing script support is very important for many languages, I totally agree with you. For example, tools such as WebFonts and Narayam are fortunately being developed by the localisation team. Some members of the committee are also involved, but the committee itself is not a developer body :-) It can of course give help to people regarding script support.
Also, there are no specific "seats" determined per-language. You call one of our members as being on the "Greek seat", but he was made a member based on his expertise for Wikiversity projects mainly. We will of course happily review membership requests by such experts as you describe; but so far, during the time I was a member, actually about all issues members were knowledgeable (or knew someone with more expertise whom they could contact).
Please also note that Langcom always consults with external linguistic experts before it approves new languages. --MF-W 00:49, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Hi, when you say "Korean and Chinese contents are not more developed than they are today", what do you exactly mean? There are projects in these languages, and they all have robust communities. True, Simplified Mandarin Chinese Wikipedia should be among the largest projects but hey, our task is not promoting the participation in the projects! --Maor X (talk) 03:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)
Localition is not what is important; it is very much about knowledge and experience. When a new member to the LC is proposed we look to the value he adds in this regard. Not at all where he is from. Thanks, GerardM (talk) 06:16, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Although there seems to be some confusion about the purpose of Langcom, there is still a valid point raised: a committee such as Langcom could surely benefit from more diverse international perspectives. I have mentioned this before, but of course within a volunteer movement it is a bit difficult: people usually ask to join Langcom, they are not generally "recruited", so it is largely self-selecting. I am of the opinion that Langcom -should- recruit people, knowledgeable interested people from unique backgrounds who can add perspectives from other corners of the world than Euro-America... well, maybe someday, but as long as Langcom operates mostly based on expert opinions and technical criteria, it is not such a big problem to have a relative narrowness of linguistic backgrounds, I suppose. It would be cool to have a Langcom that is more active in encouraging people to create new language editions, rather than just being there to facilitate the process for people who have already decided to do so... and of course if it were ever to become such a thing, more geographic diversity would be a great asset. --Node ue (talk) 07:54, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Just fyi: I *was* recruited by a LangCom member due to my knowledge of Swahili in particular and Bantu languages in general as well as my activity in minority language projects in East Africa. Fwiw, --Baba Tabita (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Bug 37310 – Updates to ISO-codes for ku family dialects

Hello, developers are waiting for a decision on LangCom's end for this request. If you don't mind, I'll start tagging such situation with "langcom" in the whiteboard. Thanks, Nemo 15:42, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Here specifically, I don't see what LangCom needs to decide on. Afaics my 3rd comment summarises what needs to happen. More generally, tagging with "langcom" might be fine but I doubt anyone would (regularly) look at bugs tagged with it. Regards, SPQRobin (talk) 19:47, 21 November 2012 (UTC)