Talk:WikiWomenCamp 2023

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Are the dates of the event final? This is the festival time for almost whole of India, precisely we the Bengalis wait for our Durga Puja. Whoever stay outside of Bengal come home during this time. Can't the dates be changed? Nettime Sujata (talk) 08:35, 14 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Location of event?[edit]

Hi, congratulations on the funding of the event for October. Unless I'm missing something, but there seems to be no information whatsoever about the location of the in-person conference. The grant proposal seems to list "India" vaguely, but perhaps more elaboration can be given? Even if it's not final, it would be good to at least indicate that cities or locations are being considered. Thanks. - Fuzheado (talk) 15:15, 27 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you, Fuzheado. The final location of the in-person conference is New Delhi. We have mentioned it on the main event page. We considered two possible locations initially: New Delhi and Chandigarh (mentioned on the grant page), and finalised New Delhi. Brahmavadini (talk) 16:52, 1 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Does the event include gender-diverse persons?[edit]

Just curious about whether the event also includes gender-diverse persons. I am assuming the term "women" covers cis and trans women. -- Rohini (talk) 15:50, 30 June 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We worked on an inclusivity policy with DEI team at WMF. The general recommendation was to consider opening space to all individuals who identify as women (as this is Women Camp) as opening the space for others and not having the capacity for informed conversations is not recommended. We can definitey discuss this in details over a call. Thanks-WWC2023 (talk) 19:21, 1 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No, this answer is sufficient. I'd recommend slightly modifying the language on the content page to indicate that the event is for individuals whose primary gender identity is female. -- Rohini (talk) 21:12, 1 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Diversity requires accessibility; which requires clarity of communication.[edit]

How many scholarship winners do you imagine suffer from anxiety and might be bothered at it having been a week since they were informed they had won and had accepted, when not even an automated "We got your reply" has been received yet?

I know, this now makes one follow-up email and two Talk page posts in total from me regarding this issue, but I do not consider that unreasonable or excessive, when I've yet to have a response that addressed my concerns. We have barely 3 months to prepare - and even less to get our visas in order - and it would seem obvious that at least some of the scholarship recipients have fewer resources than other attendees, when it comes to planning for such a trip. They should be given as much time as possible and be given some idea of the time frames they are dealing with.

And yes, part of my choice to post this now is my personal anxiety over losing this amazing opportunity, due to human error or email filtering glitches. I'm even nervous that posting this comment will get me labeled disruptive and lose the scholarship I still have no confirmation I've been granted. But my personal anxieties are not the only reason I am compelled to post this. I am obviously an advocate for disability inclusion, and the lack of communication at this stage is a worrying situation - adequate communication being one of the key components of mental health inclusivity. Particularly when it would've been so easy to either include a date in the original email by which time we should expect a reply, or an automated response could have been set up just so recipients know that their acceptance email was received.

There are simple ways this situation could have been less stressful for myself and anyone else on that scholarship list, and I hope the organizers will consider that in the future of this or any other events. CleverTitania (talk) 07:11, 22 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi @CleverTitania, asap someone will be back to you and others with a communication. We are very sorry for the delay 🤗. Camelia (talk) 06:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
@Camelia.bobanThank you so much for letting me know and acknowledging that I'm not nuts for being confused/concerned by the lack of response just now.
And I'm quite ready and willing to start my volunteer hours at any point. I'm stuck at home more than usual, thanks to the Canadian wildfire haze moving through and hitting my asthma.
My point being, if you need any communications, admin, logistical or similar help, with any tasks the organizing board is juggling right now, please feel free to reach out. Tedious admin is kinda my jam. CleverTitania (talk) 01:01, 25 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Re: Diversity requires accessibility; which requires clarity of communication[edit]

Dear @CleverTitania,

Apologies for the delay in responding to your message. The COT was travelling for the in-person meeting. Also, the scholarships review is tedious and sensitive as requires thorough review and discussions. After due diligence, the team has reached a decision and we have sent you an email with the request for details expected from you. Please check your inbox for details.


WWC2023 (talk) 12:59, 26 July 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cancellation of Financial Support for our Participation in the WWC[edit]

Dear WikiWomenCamp organizers:

We are writing to express our concern about some events that have been occurring in recent weeks according to participants from different affiliates in the Latin American region. As you know, we represent the fourth most sp oken language in the world after English, Mandarin, and Hindi and in this region, we are pioneers and active participants in different regional and local initiatives on closing the gender gap. We are also creators of different working models based in the Global South. Therefore, we consider our participation in this type of meetings and other community meetings to be fundamental, as fundamental as your participation when we have organized the meetings on this side of the world.

Since the beginning of the call for applications, several of us applied for a scholarship, usually receiving rejections. In general, communication to us has been late and unclear. Every time we asked something you told us that we should be patient.

We expect all Wikimedians to show respect for others and to practice empathy. In this case, the lack of transparency has been repetitive; every time we asked something, either our emails were not answered, or we were met with evasive responses, or we were told to be patient, that you were looking for the best flight for us.

It's important to consider that organizing a trip involves, for those of us who are volunteers, requesting time off from our jobs and not getting paid for the days we are absent. Making travel arrangements is a complicated matter, requiring time in advance, respectful management of the volunteer's time, and close, communal collaboration, a situation that we have not been aware of throughout the overall process.

We would like to express our deep disappointment regarding the recent cancellation of the financial support that had been promised to some of us for attending the WWC, scheduled for October. As women committed to this important field of gender gap in the Wikimedia movement and who had dedicated considerable time and resources to prepare for this event, we are extremely frustrated by this situation.

From the moment we were selected to participate in this conference, we have been working diligently on the preparation of our presentations. Some of us have been having work meetings to organize the WWC. Furthermore, we have organized our personal and professional schedule to ensure our availability during the WWC dates. We were excited about the opportunity to contribute to the discussion and share our knowledge and experience with other women from all over the world.

The last-minute notification that financial support for travel expenses will no longer be available came to us at the last minute, causing all of us great inconveniences. The lack of prior notice has prevented us from seeking viable alternatives to attend the WWC, such as securing additional sponsors or rearranging our personal and work plans.

We understand that unforeseen changes in event planning can occur, but we expected that appropriate measures would be taken to mitigate the impact on participants, especially considering that some of us are volunteers who are donating our time to the Wikimedia community and the commitment and dedication that many of us have demonstrated in preparing for this event.

Furthermore, we would like to point out that the cancellation of financial support (WWC2023/Scholarship), not only affects us but also deprives the conference of our enriching contribution and perspective. We firmly believe that diversity of voices and experience in the field are essential to enrich the discourse and advance the understanding of the gender gap in Wikimedia.

Although we perfectly understand that in each project we have an important budget constraint, we are surprised that the decision coincides with an entire region and on a date so close to the event.

We regret that the decision of the organizing committee is to leave out almost the entire Latin American region, which seems to us to be strategically inadequate. We don't believe that various voices and perspectives are represented in the camp.

Our attendance at the meeting not only includes the sharing of local experiences among us, but also to advance towards a common and global work agenda, a route that is impeded by this type of decision. All of us are respected community members and deserve to be treated with respect.

In order to prevent situations like the one at hand from recurring and to be able to implement measures to mitigate the consequences of such decisions, we kindly request an explanation of the situation and the criteria taken. We acknowledge that events and organizations involved in logistical work can face tough challenges, but we believe that the decisions in this case could set a negative precedent. We appreciate your attention to this matter and look forward to a prompt response. Jalu (talk) 01:11, 2 October 2023 (UTC) Caleidoscopic (talk) 10:31, 2 October 2023 (UTC), Monica Bonilla (WMCO) (talk) 13:48, 2 October 2023 (UTC)--Florenciac (talk) 10:38, 2 October 2023 (UTC)--Wotancito (talk) 13:52, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Please, read this. @Netha Hussain:, @Rosiestep:, @JStephenson (WMF):, @Raystorm:, @Tiputini:, @Joy Agyepong:, @MichaelaBlanc:, @Soukaina Abelhad:, @Nitesh Gill:, @Aliva Sahoo:,@CSteigenberger (WMF):, @Tochiprecious:, @Chinmayee Mishra:, @Radhika41:,@Shani (WMF):, @NTymkiv (WMF):, @Victoria:, @Camelia.boban:, @Armineaghayan:,@Olga WM BO:, @Carmen Alcázar (WMMX):, @Manavpreet Kaur:,@Monica Bonilla (WMCO):, @Rohini:, @SAgbley:, @Venuslui:, @Zapipedia:, @Mervat:,@Joy:, @Caleidoscopic:,@CalliandraDysantha:.


  • Strong support Strong support - I have just read what is happening and I consider it imperative that there is a clarification from the organization of the conference. As the founder of Wikiesfera, a group from Spain that fights against the gender gap in the movement and is represented in this meeting, I think it is unacceptable the lack of representatives of fundamental groups from Latin America. Is there any action we can take to address and rectify this situation? PatriHorrillo (talk) 10:48, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • From Wikimedia Spain we consider very important the participation of women from all over the world in this event, that is what diversity is all about. We do not agree at all with the forms or the results of the scholarship process. We want to express our support to the people and groups affected and our dissatisfaction with the results.
// Desde Wikimedia España consideramos muy importante la participación de mujeres de todas partes del mundo en este evento, de eso trata la diversidad. No estamos para nada de acuerdo con las formas ni con los resultados del proceso de becas. Queremos manifestar nuestro apoyo a las personas y grupos afectados y nuestro descontento con los resultados. Florenciac (talk) 10:40, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support.I fully support this letter from the Latin American colleagues. We at Muj(lh)eres latinoamericanas en Wikimedia are concerned about the fact that an entire region is being left out. We are also concerned that the notice of rejection of the scholarship is left until the last minute, leaving the girls without time to look for alternatives. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 12:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Support como voluntario en los diferentes proyectos de WMF Esteban (talk) 14:17, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support. From Wikimedia Colombia, we join this request, and we are deeply saddened by the way the decision to exclude an entire region has been carried out. These excluded colleagues deserve participation due to their tireless work for others. We hope they reconsider their decision and take actions to alleviate this regional discontent. // Desde Wikimedia Colombia, nos sumamos a esta solicitud y nos entristece profundamente la forma en que se ha tomado la decisión de dejar fuera a toda una región. Nuestras compañeras excluidas merecen participar debido a su incansable labor en beneficio de las demás. Esperamos que reconsideren su decisión y que tomen medidas para mitigar este descontento regional. JOAN ~ (Questions?) 15:06, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Desde Wikimedia Chile expresamos preocupación por la situación compartida por las compañeras de la región, que pone en peligro su participación en la próxima WWC. Si bien se entiende que siempre hay situaciones imprevistas cuando se organiza un evento global, la transparencia en la toma de decisiones y la comunicación oportuna son herramientas clave que los organizadores tienen que considerar para resolver cualquier problema. Esperamos que estos casos no vuelvan a repetirse y que se aprenda de esta situación. Solidaridad con las compañeras afectadas.
    (English) From Wikimedia Chile, we express our concern about the situation shared by colleagues from our region that jeopardizes their participation in the next WWC. While it is understood that there are always unforeseen situations when organizing a global event, transparency in decision-making and timely communication are key tools that organizers must consider to solve any problems. We hope that these cases do not happen again and that lessons are learned from this situation. Solidarity with the affected colleagues.
    On behalf of Wikimedia Chile. Superzerocool (talk) 15:39, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support desde el Grupo en español de Wikimedia LGBT queremos dar todo nuestro apoyo a las compañeras, y también nos unimos a los demás grupos de usuarias, usuarios y usuaries que se unen para reclamar la búsqueda de una pronta solución para que las voces de la región latinoamericana estén presentes en este importante evento.// [Strong support] from the Spanish Group of Wikimedia LGBT. We want to give all our support to the female colleagues, and we also join the other groups of users who come together to demand the search for a prompt solution so that the voices from the Latin American region are present at this important event. MiguelAlanCS (talk) 13:34, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support En tanto son comprensibles los retos que implica la organización de un evento internacional -yo mismo me he visto en este rol varias ocasiones- es evidente que este recorte ha tenido voluntaria o involuntariamente la eliminación de un actor importante a nivel regional en el encuentro. Por supuesto se debe tener un límite presupuestal, pero su manejo eficiente depende sensitivamente del tiempo. La respuesta que ha dado ya el equipo suena insuficiente y genérica, por lo que en pro de la transparencia sería oportuno conocer públicamente los criterios de elección que se tomaron para decidir y los posibles puntajes que se valoraron. De este modo podremos conocer de una mejor manera como movimiento los aprendizajes que derivan de una experiencia frustrante para las compañeras.
    (English) While the challenges involved in organizing an international event are understandable -I have found myself in this role on several occasions for global and regional conferences- it is clear that this cutback has voluntarily or involuntarily eliminated an important regional player from the meeting. Of course there must be a budget limit, but its efficient management depends sensitively on time. The response already given by the team sounds insufficient and generic, so for the sake of transparency it would be appropriate to publicly know the selection criteria that were taken to decide, the possible scores that were valued. In this way, we will be able to know in a better way how to move the learning derived from a frustrating experience for our colleagues. --ProtoplasmaKid (talk) 15:56, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Desde Portugal, presto a minha solidariedade para com as companheiras da América Latina que foram sujeitas a um tratamento que considero inadequado, sobretudo tendo em conta os grandes constrangimentos que implicam estas deslocações para quem é voluntária/o. Não considero admissível que uma organização profissional trate os potenciais participantes de um evento desta maneira, demorando nas respostas ou não respondendo por completo, e sempre com respostas vagas. Espero que da próxima vez tenham a consideração de responder no tempo adequado, explicar frontalmente as razões da demora, e ter uma abordagem sincera quanto às dificuldades encontradas e o risco que colocam para a participação. À parte os problemas encontrados pela organização serem ou não irresolúveis, quem é voluntária/o já dedica tanto do seu tempo, conhecimento e paciência a melhorar os projetos Wikimedia, e não deveria ter de passar por isto - simplesmente não é justo. Deixo claro que faço esta declaração em nome individual, como Wikimedista voluntário.
    (English) From Portugal, I extend my solidarity to our comrades in Latin America who have been subjected to treatment that I find inadequate, especially considering the significant constraints that participating as a volunteer in such events entails. I find it unacceptable for a professional organization to treat potential participants in this manner, taking too long to respond or not responding at all, always with vague answers and illusory hints of hope. I hope that next time the organization will consider responding in a timely manner, providing a clear explanation for any delays, and adopting an honest approach regarding the difficulties encountered and the risks they pose to participation. Regardless of whether the issues faced by the organization were solvable or not, volunteers already dedicate so much of their time, knowledge, and patience to improving our Wikimedia projects, and they should not have to go through this – it's simply not fair. I am making this statement as a Wikimedian volunteer.--- Darwin Ahoy! 19:34, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Desde Wikimedia Argentina acompañamos a las compañeras afectadas y unimos nuestra voz a les usuaries que muestran preocupación por el impacto de esta decisión. Comprendemos que un evento de estas particularidades presenta sus imprevistos y desafíos, no obstante es importante considerar valores claves como la transparencia al momento de comunicar, y la posibilidad de tomar esta experencia como un aprendizaje para no repetir esta clase de problemáticas. Esperamos entonces que tengan a bien brindar un informe sobre el criterio utilizado para la toma de decisión y qué alternativas fueron consideradas para la ocasión, ya que dejar sin representación a una región completa va en contra de los objetivos del movimiento. En representación de Wikimedia Argentina, --Lahi (talk) 23:11, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    (English) From Wikimedia Argentina, we support the affected women and we join our voice to the users that show concerns regarding the impact of the decision. We understand that an event of this type presents challenges and unexpected roadblocks, nevertheless it is imperative that we consider core values like transparency when communicating, with the possibility of taking this experience like a learning experience that will allow us prevent a repeat of these issues. We expect that a report on the criteria used to make the decision is shared, and what alternatives were taken into consideration and were discarded in favour of the chosen. Leaving an entire region without representation goes against the objectives of the movement. On behalf of Wikimedia Argentina, --Lahi (talk) 23:11, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Desde la mesa directiva de Wikimedia México, expresamos nuestra solidaridad con las compañeras de América Latina que no participarán en WikiWomenCamp, ya sea porque el apoyo económico fue retirado o porque no recibieron el apoyo. Creemos que es importante clarificar la situación, puesto que las compañeras afectadas no sólo son representantes de la región latinoamericaana, sino pioneras en la lucha por reducir la brecha de género en Wikipedia y otros proyectos de Wikimedia. Entendemos las dificultades y retos que supone organizar eventos internacionales, pues también tenemos experiencia en ese ámbito, pero creemos que dada la naturaleza de nuestro movimiento (abierto), tenemos que expresar de manera clara cualquier situación que ponga barreras en los grupos que históricamente no han tenido representatividad en el mundo. En representación del capítulo Wikimedia México, vicepresidente Luisalvaz (talk) 00:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]
    (English) From Wikimedia Mexico board, we express our solidarity with our colleagues from Latin America who will not be participating in WikiWomenCamp, either because financial support was withdrawn or because they did not receive support. We believe it is important to clarify the situation, as the affected colleagues are not only representatives of the Latin American region but also pioneers in the fight to reduce the gender gap on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects. We understand the difficulties and challenges involved in organizing international events, as we also have experience in this field, but we believe that given the nature of our (open) movement, we must clearly articulate any situation that erects barriers for groups that historically have lacked representation in the world. On behalf of Wikimedia Mexico chapter, Luisalvaz (talk) 00:34, 3 October 2023 (UTC).Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Quiero expresar mi apoyo a las compañeras y me sumo a la petición de transparencia sobre el proceso de toma de decisiones durante las últimas semanas. Soy consciente de la complejidad que implica organizar un evento de esta magnitud en tiempo récord con un reducido equipo de voluntarias que tienen que enfretarse a todo tipo de imprevistos en un contexto tan cambiante como el actual, por eso agradezco que se dispongan los medios que sean necesarios para reconducir la situación. Me entristece que a escasas dos semanas del inicio de un evento tan importante para el movimiento exista tanta incertidumbre entre las participantes y, sobre todo, que esté afectando de manera tan marcada a las compañeras de América Latina, que tanto han luchado (y luchan) para reducir la brecha de género en los proyectos Wikimedia. --Zapipedia (talk) 00:58, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    (English) I would like to express my support to my colleagues and join the call for transparency on the decision-making process during the last weeks. I am aware of the complexity involved in organising an event of this magnitude in record time with a small team of volunteers who have to deal with all kinds of unforeseen events in a context as changing as the current one, so I would appreciate that the necessary means could be made available to rectify this situation. It saddens me that with barely two weeks to go before the start of such an important event for the movement, there is so much uncertainty among the participants and, above all, that this situation is affecting in such a marked way the collagues from Latin America. All of them women who have fought (and keep fighting) so hard to reduce the gender gap in Wikimedia projects. --Zapipedia (talk) 00:58, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Listening to the diversity of voices, especially from places where you especially do not have a voice, is key to having fruitful discussions. I thank you in advance for reviewing the selection processes for granting scholarships, because I consider that this goes against the transparency of the movement. For this reason, today I would like to express my support for the people affected by these results. --Libardomm (talk) 02:15, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • (Italian) Non posso immaginare un WWC senza le donne latino-americane, soprattutto se hanno precedentemente organizzato il WWC, nel 2012 e 2017. E non oso nemmeno immaginare quanto lavoro, stress e notti abbiano perso gli organizzatori della conferenza. Il mio è un Strong support Strong support alla partecipazione di rappresentanti dell'America Latina e un Strong support Strong support al team degli organizzatori che stanno assiduamente lavorando in modo volontario da molti mesi, tenendo conto di moltissime restrizioni dal punto di vista amministrativo, come evidenziato dal COT. Considero questa una situazione d'emergenza e la partecipazione un'assoluta necessità, confido che il team COT insieme alla Fondazione, alla comunità e altri attori, daranno il loro massimo in questo senso.
(Spanish) No puedo imaginar una WWC sin mujeres latinoamericanas, especialmente si ya organizaron la WWC anteriormente, en 2012 y 2017. Y no puedo ni imaginar cuánto trabajo, estrés y noches perdieron los organizadores de la conferencia. El mío es un fuerte apoyo a la participación de representantes de América Latina y un fuerte apoyo al equipo de organizadores que han estado trabajando asiduamente y de forma voluntaria durante muchos meses, teniendo en cuenta muchas restricciones desde el punto de vista administrativo, como lo destacó la CUNA. Considero que esta es una situación de emergencia y la participación una necesidad absoluta, confío en que el equipo del COT junto con la Fundación, la comunidad y demás actores, darán lo mejor de sí en este sentido.
(English) I can't imagine a WWC without Latin American women, especially if they previously organized the WWC, in 2012 and 2017. And I can't even imagine how much work, stress and nights the conference organizers lost. Mine is a strong support for the participation of representatives from Latin America and a strong support for the team of organizers who have been assiduously working on a voluntary basis for many months, taking into account many restrictions from an administrative point of view, as highlighted by the COT. I consider this an emergency situation and participation an absolute necessity, I trust that the COT team together with the Foundation, the community and other actors, will give their best in this sense. --Camelia (talk) 12:46, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Hi, I am a Wikimedia user and organizer from Peru and I am part of the WikiAccion Peru and Art+Feminism projects. I want to express my support to the five users who started this conversation regarding the withdrawal of funding for the flights of the scholarship participants in Latin America. It is worrying that there has not been more advance notice of this important change, since in practice it is leaving out our region, which probably should not be considered in the same block as North America, due to the great economic and socio-cultural distance that separates us. It is worth mentioning, for transparency, that I was one of the people selected for a full scholarship and I was notified that I would not be supported for the trip on September 22. I think it would be fair that after the conference the organizing committee could conduct an evaluation and provide some kind of feedback to understand what happened and how something like this could be prevented from happening again in future conferences. An open dialogue should also be convened with the ones affected in order to hear in detail their perspectives and experiences and to repair any harm caused. --Yhhue91 (talk) 01:15, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Support Support I support your voicing out. You've been doing a great job in closing the gender gap. I know everyone has put in so much efforts including the COT and I can imagine how you all feel right now. I hope everything gets sorted out amicably so we don't miss anyone and we maintain our diversity and inclusion.

Tochiprecious (talk)

  • Strong support Strong support Por medio de la presente expreso mi apoyo al reclamo y espero que pronto se aclare, se solucione, y las wikimedistas argentinas puedan participar de la actividad. Saludos! Fernando Archuby (talk) 13:19, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Desde el Equipo de Wikimedistas de la UNLP queremos expresar nuestro apoyo a las compañeras de América Latina cuya participación en el WikiWomenCamp se encuentra en peligro; y solidarizarnos ante esta situación que las perjudica a ellas, así como al colectivo de editoras y participantes del continente que no podrá contar con su voz. Por otro lado, también nos hacemos eco de las solicitudes de clarificar el mecanismo para el otorgamiento de las becas y la resolución de esta situación. Si bien es entendible que surgen imprevistos en la organización de eventos de esta magnitud, es necesario que se empleen mecanismos transparentes para evitar la repetición de situaciones como la actual, que afecta, en este caso, a las compañeras de América Latina, que tanto han luchado por reducir múltiples desigualdades. En representación del Equipo de Wikimedistas de la UNLP, --Mikelzubi (talk) 15:38, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support Due to the exclusion of an entire region (by rescinding the funding for their attendance to the event), Wikimedia Venezuela expresses its discontent for what we perceive as a lack of adequate scholarship application and decision making processes. In addition to this, ineffective communication is evidenced by notifying our Latin American sisters of the scholarship rejection at the last minute, leaving them with no time to seek alternatives. We hope that all this remains for all of us as an experience and that, for future events, this type of situation will not be repeated. All our support to our compañeras! Ybsen lucero (talk) 15:42, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
  • Strong support Strong support [español abajo] There is an opportunity cost and a cost of participation to volunteers who already give their time, labour and skills for free and sometimes incur monetary costs for it. In movements such as ours, volunteers perform intellectual and emotional labour and the cost potentially extends to our health and wellbeing. Volunteer time and energy are invaluable. When we apply for and agree to participate in an event, there are visible and hidden costs of participation: Time and effort spent away from paid work, away from our loved ones, away from our other communities and from our other pursuits that bring us health or happiness or both, Time, effort and money spent on preparations for travel, for absence from home and work, on our contributions to the event (because the Wiki way is that everyone brings their crumb to the table). Every big and small task -- even waiting for clear, direct, timely and adequate communication adds up. When a volunteer finds at some point that they need to disengage from the process/ event after having invested in it or when they end up participating in a sub-optimal way, all this cost is sunk. I have conveyed some of these concerns already to the organisers. I am not delving into them here to avoid distracting from the very critical and specific topic of this thread. That is not to take away from the gargantuan effort this event has been. Organising international conferences is hard -- When I was on the organising team of one, with about 400 participants, it took nearly a year of preparation and I slowly went crazy in the months preceding the event. I know firsthand the pain of event organisers and have the utmost respect for them.
  • (Spanish) Existe un coste de oportunidad y un coste de participación para los voluntarios, que ya ofrecen su tiempo, su trabajo y sus habilidades de forma gratuita y a veces incurren en costes monetarios por ello. En movimientos como el nuestro, los voluntarios realizan un trabajo intelectual y emocional y el coste se extiende potencialmente a la salud y el bienestar. El tiempo y la energía de los voluntarios son valiosos. Cuando solicitamos y aceptamos participar en un evento, existen costes de participación visibles y ocultos: El tiempo y el esfuerzo que pasamos lejos del trabajo remunerado, lejos de nuestros seres queridos, lejos de nuestras otras comunidades y de nuestras otras aficiones que nos aportan salud o felicidad o ambas, Tiempo, esfuerzo y dinero gastados en los preparativos para el viaje, para ausentarnos de casa y del trabajo, en nuestras contribuciones al evento (porque la manera Wiki es que cada uno aporte su migaja a la mesa). Cada tarea grande y pequeña, incluso la espera de una comunicación clara, directa, oportuna y adecuada, suma. Cuando un voluntario se da cuenta en algún momento de que tiene que desvincularse del proceso/evento después de haber invertido en él o cuando acaba participando de forma no óptima, todo este coste se hunde. Ya he transmitido algunas de estas preocupaciones a los organizadores. No voy a ahondar en ellas aquí para no distraer la atención del tema tan crítico y específico de este hilo. No hay que quitarle importancia al esfuerzo gargantuesco que ha supuesto este evento. Organizar conferencias internacionales es duro. Cuando formé parte del equipo organizador de una, con unos 400 participantes, me llevó casi un año de preparativos y poco a poco me fui volviendo loca en los meses previos al evento. Conozco de primera mano el dolor de los organizadores de eventos y les tengo el máximo respeto. -- Rohini (talk) 19:53, 4 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Response from COT[edit]

We want to express our sincere gratitude for taking the time to share your concerns and feedback with us. Your input is of great importance, and we deeply value your commitment to the Wikimedia movement, especially your efforts in the Latin American region. We understand that the concerns that you have raised are valid and do reduce the regional equity quotient of WWC 2023.

First and foremost, We want to acknowledge the significance of the work being done by Wikimedians in the Latin American region. Regarding the scholarship applications and the subsequent cancellation of travel support, we want to provide information on the process and considerations that led to this difficult decision.

As you may already know, the WWC 2023 is organised within the limits of a predefined budget. When we received an overwhelming response to the scholarship call, we were genuinely excited about the prospect of accommodating as many participants as possible. Our intention was to support as many seats as our budget would allow.

We explored numerous alternatives and scenarios to accommodate the scholarship seats as soon as we realised that there would be budget constraints. This included seeking additional funding sources, optimising travel and accommodation options, and negotiating with service providers to reduce costs. Our aim was to ensure a fair and equitable distribution of scholarships to all the participants.

However, as we meticulously worked through these scenarios, it became evident that the projected budget for some travel bookings had escalated to more than five times the originally allocated budget. This unforeseen development posed a significant financial challenge, and it became increasingly unsustainable to proceed.

Due to restrictions of the regional laws, we cannot pay for a partial ticket, or a ticket issued by any agency outside India or transfer funds into the account of the international participant for self booking. These constraints became a huge challenge and made it difficult for us to find options to solve the problem of escalated travel costs. We are unable to also provide cash reimbursement to cover these travel expenses. Given these constraints, the COT had to make a difficult decision of withdrawing travel support for some scholarship recipients. This difficult decision has deeply impacted the organisers as well.

We want to emphasise that this decision was not taken lightly or as a measure to evade a potentially difficult situation. Our team spent considerable time reviewing the situation from all angles, exploring every possible avenue, and seeking alternative solutions. Our primary concern was to ensure the financial sustainability of the event while maintaining a diverse and inclusive participant pool.

We deeply regret any inconvenience, frustration, or disappointment this situation may have caused you and others in the Latin American region. We understand the importance of the work you do, and we appreciate your dedication to the gender gap initiatives in Wikimedia.

Please be assured that we are actively working to prevent such situations from recurring in the future. We will provide a more detailed breakdown of the decision-making process and criteria in our upcoming response, as well as explore ways to better support the Latin American community within our constraints.

Once again, thank you for your understanding, and we appreciate your commitment to the Wiki Women Camp. Your voices and perspectives are vital to the movement, and we remain dedicated to finding solutions that benefit all participants.-WWC2023 (talk) 12:02, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Response to emerging issues 6 October 2023[edit]

Regional disaggregation and participation: Scholarship data and decision-making criteria has been documented and a full report will be shared in due time. Decision-making criteria for participation included past contributions to the gender gap work, editing and movement experience, and potential post-camp impact. The scholarships were categorized into four regions by WWC COT: Americas, MENA & Africa, Europe and Asia. Under the Americas, out of 35, 24 applications were from LATAM. 7 out of 8 scholarships were given to LATAM. One participant from North America will be in attendance on scholarship.

Of the 7 scholarships offered in LATAM, the breakdown is as follows

2 were offered to Argentina,

1 to Colombia,

1 from Peru,

2 from Brazil, and

1 from Bolivia

As of 5 October, two participants from Brazil will be in attendance. As people have withdrawn their participation following the offer of partial scholarship, COT has been actively identifying other participants in the region and offering scholarships to them. Unfortunately, some participants have been non-responsive to travel scholarship invitations, and two have withdrawn their participation. To protect the right to privacy of these individuals, we are not able to release their names or countries.

COT is sadly unable to cover travel from Argentina due to airline costs 5 times the budget available. But the accommodation and incidental scholarship remains.

To address this regional participation gap and attempt to meet the demand for participation, COT is exploring options to have some sessions available in hybrid format (see more details below).

Inclusion of LATAM Gender Gap Leaders[edit]

We are sincerely empathetic to how frustrating it must be for the three affected scholarship participants to have had their travel scholarships redacted. The redacted travel scholarship related only to the flight component and not the accommodation and incidentals portion of the scholarship. The decision to withdraw the flight support was only due to financial limitations and not due to any targeted exclusion of LATAM participants. Given the challenges with facilitating broader in-person participation, COT is currently exploring if some sessions can be hosted in hybrid format. Given the associated costs of hosting well-run hybrid sessions for the full conference so close to the Camp start date, it is not possible to make the entire event hybrid. But every effort is being made to ensure some of the sessions can be available to online participation.

Visa Challenges[edit]

The visa challenge is a widespread one; the Indian government (MEA) requires that conference organizers submit a list of names several weeks before the event. The COT submitted this list on 30 August. MEA then engaged country embassies for attendance clearance for the identified participants. As of 5 October, LATAM has been granted clearance and COT will be in touch with the relevant documentation. Once MEA has issued clearance, e-visa processing will take approximately 3 working days.

Regards-WWC2023 (talk) 16:07, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you for providing information that helps to understand the situation a bit better. I think there are two separate aspects that have been causing frustration and confusion, at least in the Spanish-speaking community.
One has to do with the conference logistics. It is understandable that organising an international event can be challenging and there can be unexpected obstacles to participation. Visas are particularly frustrating, and something every international conference suffers from, so there is not much that can be done in this respect. However, rescinding awarded scholarships and switching from fully funded travel to partial travel that does not include flight tickets should be something very rare. That this happened to several women just a few weeks before the conference points to a wider problem, namely that the budget requested for the event was off-base. And while budgets can of course sometimes be imprecise, in this case it has been too imprecise. This has caused real-life disruptions to women who had already planned to attend. That a pattern has emerged in which most of those women were from Latin America is particularly grim. Wikiwomencamp was born in Argentina and consolidated in Mexico. That no women from either country will be able to attend on a full scholarship – that nobody from Mexico has been granted a scholarship even! – is heartbreaking, and fractures the line of knowledge and expertise WWC attempted to preserve in a Movement like ours that has struggled with acknowledging and building upon what has been done before. If a region needed to be excluded or their participation reduced, equity demanded it be Europe, not LatAm.
Second, I think the lack of tangible proposals to remedy the situation in the future, or at least consider reparations, has also caused disappointment and irritation. This particular decision-making has already happened, and as exasperating as it is that – from what it reads – a sheer ~15k budget mis-estimation is causing this strife that will unfortunately shadow the event, it appears the Foundation is not going to cover the costs. I couldn’t help but check out the grant proposal for this event – so many questions about projectors and swag and so on, and not a single one about whether the estimated scholarships’ budget based on the proposed regions was accurate. That is a process failure. If the grants process cannot flag a potential critical issue, and have an alternative plan for it, then what is the point. That talkpage is a prime example of missing the forest for the trees. There are some actionable learnings from this situation – the very first one being the need to create a more formal selection process, with open calls and bids to select a venue, and determine their viability. And then support them with the grant request creation and submission. But there also needs to be a shared responsibility once the grant is submitted, to make sure the event can be successful. And this needs to continue after the grant is nominally approved. If the Foundation believes in this event, and wants it to be successful, then it needs to engage with it at all levels from the start.
For the women – and regions – affected in this edition, by financial constraints or visas, there can be some reparations. It should be fairly straightforward to automatically transfer their full scholarship to the next edition of WWC after India. There should also be some guarantee that we will not see further unequal distributions of scholarships per region (15% for LatAm and, ahem, apparently North America too vs 20% for Europe might make financial sense, but I hope it is evident that this is unequal and not something we should be aiming for). And perhaps there should be some strong effort to include past organisers in each edition. I can’t imagine the next edition of WWC without women from India participating, so we should take some particular care to make sure there is continuity for the local communities that host these events and who historically don’t have the opportunity to have much of a voice in the global conversations. WWC can be such a space for those women. For all women.
I hope this can be useful. Kind regards, Raystorm (talk) 18:55, 6 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
+1 to what @Raystorm wrote above. -- Rohini (talk) 15:06, 7 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Updates from WMF and COT[edit]

WikiWomen Camp 2023 aims to be an inclusive in-person gathering that brings together movement volunteers committed to addressing the gender gap. For the first time in six years, editors, organizers, admins and leaders in our movement will convene for an in-person event along two tracks of capacity building and strategy, under the theme of "Map Up, Rise Up". Supporting WikiWomen Camp and the efforts of women in our movement feeds into WMF’s Annual Priorities in Gender.

WMF has been actively supporting WWC COT in realizing the Camp’s objectives, to bring together diverse contributors who are committed to addressing the gender gap and making our movement more equitable. We recognize the importance of in-person gatherings for building solidarity and alignment of strategic priorities. At the same time, it is a massive undertaking to organize them behind the scenes. As we learn, adapt and iterate on how to run these events smoothly, unforeseen challenges do arise. We recognize that these are frustrating for event participants, as well as for COTs organizing them.

Our intention here is to acknowledge these frustrations, and to address areas of misinformation that have arisen and provide clarity. As always, we welcome constructive feedback to help us do better with every in-person gathering

Regional Distribution of Applications In total, 438 valid applications were received for participation as follows:

  • North America and LATAM: 8.9%
  • Europe: 8.4%*
  • Asia: 39.1%
  • MENA & Africa: 43.6%

[*Note: Applications from Europe included participants from Africa and Asia living in Europe.]

Of these applications, there were 46 international scholarship applications and 15 local applications. Applications were assessed for regional and language diversity, experience in working on the gender gap and movement experience. These were distributed by region as follows:

  • 15% for LATAM and North America
  • 20% for Europe
  • 32% for MENA and Africa
  • 33% for Asia

Challenges with Rising Airline Costs Despite WWC COT’s best efforts to afford a representative distribution of scholarships, rising airline costs (up to 5 times higher than the budgeted amount) for LATAM-based participants resulted in three participants having their scholarships changed from full to partial scholarships, which included accommodation and incidentals, but not flights. Participants affected were informed of the challenges with airline costs as soon as this was possible. WWC COT has been in contact with the affected parties, offering support where feasible. All other LATAM scholarship recipients were not affected by the flight cost increases.

While it is disappointing when full scholarships are withdrawn, this does happen in rare circumstances. We try to support affected participants with alternative solutions where this takes place, although we are not always able to reach the outcome desired due to funding restrictions. In this particular case, the COT was faced with a difficult decision due to rising costs.

We understand that this news may be concerning for different parts of our movement. Moving forward, we invite affected movement actors to reach out to their COT representatives or WMF with questions and concerns related to events and gatherings. As we review how to best fund travel equitably in the movement, we welcome open, kind and collaborative communication. We are available to answer any questions that you may have about this matter. Please feel free to direct these to mmulaudzi[at]wikimedia[dot]org

WikiWomen Camp COT Wikimedia Foundation 3 October 2023

Acceptance Rates by Region
Region Total number of Applicants Selected Candidates Acceptance Rate
LATAM and North America 35 8 22.8%
Europe 33 11 33.33%
MENA and Africa 152 13 8.55%
Asia 152 16 10.52%

— The preceding unsigned comment was added by MMulaudzi-WMF (talk) 19:29, 3 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

  • (English) @MMulaudzi-WMF: Thanks for the update Masana, clarity is a value in the midst of a complicated situation. I am just concerned about your statement about "addressing the areas of misinformation that have arisen" following the message from affected colleagues and the open statements of support from a significant number of affiliates and individuals. In the interest of transparency and, in particular, the qualifier "misinformation," could you help us know what exactly are the statements made that you are referring to as that?
  • (Spanish) Gracias por la actualización Masana, la claridad es un valor en medio de una situación complicada. Sólo me preocupa su afirmación sobre "abordar las áreas de desinformación que han surgido" tras el mensaje de las compañeras afectadas y las declaraciones abiertas de apoyo de un número importante de afiliados y personas. En aras de la transparencia y, en particular, del calificativo "desinformación", ¿podría ayudarnos a saber a qué declaraciones se refería usted exactamente como eso? ProtoplasmaKid (talk) 15:28, 12 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]
    Thank you for this note @ProtoplasmKid, the misinformation referenced refers to some off-wiki communication around the intentional exclusion of the LATAM community. COT has offered a call below to affected LATAM partners to clarify any additional matters. Please do contact them for any further clarification. -MMulaudzi-WMF 09:39, 16 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Endorsements Mujeres Latinoamericanas[edit]

Mi total apoyo a esta carta de las compañeras de Latinoamérica. Desde Muj(lh)eres latinoamericanas en Wikimedia estamos preocupadas por el hecho de que se deje afuera a toda una región. También nos preocupa que se deje para último momento el aviso de rechazo a la beca, dejando a las chicas sin tiempo para buscar alternativas.
I fully support this letter from the Latin American colleagues. We at Muj(lh)eres latinoamericanas en Wikimedia are concerned about the fact that an entire region is being left out. We are also concerned that the notice of rejection of the scholarship is left until the last minute, leaving the girls without time to look for alternatives. Laura Fiorucci (talk) 12:29, 2 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Response to update from WMF and COT[edit]

We understand that the COT is facing many responsibilities, and we know they are under a lot of pressure and dealing with many issues. We empathize with the volunteer organizers because we have been in a similar situation. Wikimedia Argentina hosted the first Wiki Women Camp in 2012, and Wikimedia Mexico hosted the second one WWC in 2017.

Our protest is not motivated by capricious demands or a sense of entitlement; rather, it is a call for addressing the glaring inequities that exist within the current framework. We are not asking for an increase in the budget to cover our travel expenses. Instead, we are advocating for transparency, accountability, and the fulfillment of the Wikimedia movement's commitment to diversity, equity, and inclusion.

The Wiki Women Camp is an event that holds great significance in the context of promoting diversity of women within our global movement.  

On the official WWC page, it is mentioned that only full scholarships would be covered, travel to and from the event, accommodation & food during the event days and visa fee. During our extensive email exchanges with the organizers, we were never informed of any financial difficulties. The possibility of partial scholarships or alternative solutions was never discussed with us. We received a last-minute notification of the cancellation of our scholarships without any attempts to provide support or explore alternative solutions.

Some of us were told to look for alternatives. We  were told to fend for ourselves by seeking funding from the chapters, which at this point is impractical since none of the regional groups are in a position to take on this responsibility.

The list of scholarship recipients is public. When we wrote the first post, we already knew that six scholarships were awarded to Latin America, four were for Spanish-speaking countries (Argentina, Bolivia, Colombia, and Peru), and two were for Brazil, which speaks Portuguese. And we knew that five scholarships were canceled. After our message, one representative from Brazil received an email stating that COT had changed opinion and would grant her the scholarship so only the volunteers from Brazil will be traveling. We do not understand why you insisted on “three affected scholarship participants” as if it were a personal problem of only three women and why the Updates from WMF and COT says that  “all other LATAM scholarship recipients were not affected”.

It is disheartening to learn that while the Wiki Women Camp aims to promote gender equity and inclusion, it is excluding the voices of all Spanish-speaking Latin American countries, representing more than 500 million people from the Global South. By excluding an entire region, we believe that the objectives of the movement's strategy to increase the sustainability of our movement through support and investment in people's needs are not being met.

If the projected budget for some travel bookings had escalated to more than five times the originally allocated budget we would like to know why and what are the sources you use for such a significant budget increase, because according to our contact in New Delhi, on October 4, the estimated cost of, for example, a round-trip flight from Buenos Aires to New Delhi, buying the tickets from India, was approximately U$D 2000 showing that  prices have remained relatively stable over the past six months. We also wonder if sending a request for support to affiliates that may be able to assist with the flights that the organization was unable to cover could have been considered by the COT.

We believe it is important to establish the criteria by which the flight payments were canceled and participants were asked to seek support from other affiliates on their own, with less than a month left before the event. Was the criterion for canceling flights based on the length of travel? Because establishing such criteria in this or other events can exclude a large and valuable part of the attendees who are far from central locations or geographically disadvantaged areas with limited air transport services or who do not reside in urban centers with better-provided air services and direct international connections.

Our expressions, in the case of the first one and this current note, are not intended to seek or point out culprits, as complex situations and unforeseen events are constant in event organization. It is about establishing a path of learning that we can all follow. We would like to be treated with the respect we deserve. The response received does not seem to acknowledge that mistakes were made and that there was a selection criterion for the cancellations that lacked the incorporation of global perspectives.

Transparency and accountability are crucial elements of our movement's sustainability. It is imperative to ensure that resources and capacities are distributed equitably across the movement to foster a sense of inclusion and shared ownership.

We believe that decisions of this nature can potentially perpetuate patterns of inequality within this or other spaces, and we firmly stand in the position that such situations should be avoided.

In light of this, we would like to share some reflections and suggestions aimed at preventing such circumstances in the future:

• 1 Establishing a Criterion of Reciprocity and Continuity: We recommend considering a criterion of reciprocity and continuity in decision-making processes. This means ensuring that decisions are made in a way that promotes fairness and consistency, taking into account the history of participation and contributions of individuals from different regions.

• 2 Extending the Timeframe for Planning and Ticket Acquisition: It is crucial to extend the timeframe for planning and acquiring tickets. Adequate time allows participants to explore various options and seek support, reducing the risk of last-minute complications.

• 3 Implementing an Effective and Timely Communication Model: An effective and timely communication model is essential for keeping all parties informed throughout the decision-making process. Clear and proactive communication can help address concerns and potential issues early on.

• 4 Offering Support and Active Participation to Participants: Providing active support and engaging participants in finding joint solutions can be invaluable. Encouraging collaboration and problem-solving among participants and organizers can lead to more equitable outcomes.

• 5 Taking care of spaces as well as people. We recognize the interest of the foundation and organizations in making visible and helping to close the gender gaps in the movement, however, we suggest that it be from a perspective of care, good treatment and collaboration.

In conclusion, we want to reiterate that our protest is not driven by personal interests and this is not a personal issue against the COT, volunteers to whom we recognize their enormous effort to organize such a large and important event, but by the earnest desire to address inequities and uphold the principles of diversity and inclusion within our Wikimedia community. We believe in the importance of dialogue and collaboration and remain hopeful that our concerns will be taken into consideration.

We believe that by incorporating these reflections and considering alternative approaches, we can work together to create a more inclusive and equitable environment for all participants. Our goal is to ensure that opportunities for participation are accessible to a diverse range of voices and backgrounds within the Wikimedia community.

Thank you for your attention to these important matters, and we look forward to further discussions and actions to enhance the fairness and inclusivity of future events. Jalu (talk) 19:26, 6 October 2023 (UTC) ("This letter was written by several women from LATAM)"Reply[reply]

Let's Talk: Addressing Your Questions and Concerns about Wiki Women Camp Participation[edit]

Dear members of the LATAM community,

I hope this message finds you well. We understand that there have been questions and concerns regarding participation in the upcoming Wiki Women Camp, and we want to assure you that your thoughts and feelings are important to us.

First and foremost, we want to express our gratitude for your interest in Wiki Women Camp and for being an essential part of the Wikimedia community. Your contributions and perspectives are invaluable, and we deeply respect the concerns you may have.

We recognize that open and transparent communication is crucial in addressing any doubts or uncertainties. To this end, we would like to propose a meeting where we can come together and discuss your questions, concerns, and suggestions in a healthy and supportive environment.

The purpose of this meeting would be to:

  • Listen attentively to your concerns and questions.
  • Provide clear and comprehensive information about the Wiki Women Camp, its objectives, and its potential impact on the LATAM community.
  • Address any misunderstanding.
  • Explore possible solutions and adjustments based on your feedback.

We want to emphasize that our intention is to create a space for dialogue, understanding, and collaboration. Your insights can help us improve the Wiki Women Camp experience and ensure that it aligns with the needs and expectations of the LATAM community.

We are here to listen, learn, and work together towards a positive and inclusive Wiki Women Camp. Your voices matter, and we want to make sure that your concerns are heard and addressed.

Please let us know your availability, and we will coordinate a meeting at a time that suits you. If you have specific questions or topics you would like to discuss during the meeting, please feel free to share them in advance, and we will do our best to prepare accordingly.

Thank you for your commitment to Wikimedia projects and for your dedication to gender diversity and equity. We look forward to engaging in a constructive and respectful conversation with you.

With warm regards, WWC2023 (talk) 17:08, 10 October 2023 (UTC)Reply[reply]