Jump to content

User talk:Pathoschild/Archives/2009-02

From Meta, a Wikimedia project coordination wiki
Latest comment: 15 years ago by Slomox in topic Programming


2008 Board elections

Length of submission

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Please note that I have "compressed" my submission from the excessive 1450 to exactly 1200 characters. BTW, I find this rather too little. Former years had longer submissions, which linked to even longer election manifests. But that is not for me to decide. Harel 20:37, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Harel. The character limit was implemented in 2005 at 1000, and increased last year to 1200. Previous election committees decided that this was necessary to avoid overloading translators, since translating even one of the 2004 candidate statements was a lot of work. We decided to maintain this limit, particularly with the new requirement that the full candidate page be translated before being displayed.
We also decided to disallow linking to unofficial pages due to concerns about unbalanced coverage. Since these unofficial pages are rarely translated, they are only available to a portion of the eligible voters. Disallowing them encourages candidates to state their positions briefly (making informed voting easier with less reading), significantly reduces translators' workload, and ensures fair accessibility of all the information available.
If you disagree with any of the rules, we welcome input from the community. We have already made a few changes to the rules after community discussion. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:08:43, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

re: Please don't change election rules and information

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello Anonymous Dissident. Please don't change the official elections rules and information. Every change triggers a large number of coordinated translation updates, and the change you introduced would require additional translation updates to remove it when the elections open next week. This is why the page is fully protected with a message asking administrators not to edit it.

If you'd like to suggest some changes, please add a message to the 2008 elections talk page and we'll deal with it as soon as possible. —{admin} Pathoschild 01:43:37, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

I am very sorry for my action. I forgot to consider the translative difficulties that would arise as a result of the new material. As an aside though, I think it would be prudent to add some kind of outstanding notice at that section, because, as it currently is, it could lead to confusions about whether votes are accepted, and when. --Anonymous DissidentTalk 01:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
That's a good point; I was hoping that the red box at the top of every page would prevent confusion:
The election has not begun. Votes will not be accepted.
The translation period for candidate statements is currently underway.
Do you think some readers are skipping the red box? —{admin} Pathoschild 04:47:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
There's always someone. It's good to have a general warning, but then a more assertive and severe one at the relevant section. As it is now, what with the instructions of how to vote etc., it could mislead those few people who don't read the red box. --Anonymous DissidentTalk 07:47, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
The election starts in a few days, so I think it's too late to add and translate the extra disclaimer. However, soon the boardvote software should be updated to tell voters when the election starts if they try to vote too early. —{admin} Pathoschild 03:59:26, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Notification emails

The following discussion is marked as answered (email sent). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi there,

Regarding the voting stage that's soon to start, I understand you guys are considering notification e-mails and apparently they will be sent out. I'm not very clear about how you're going to use the translated notification e-mails. Should we translate the replaceable placeholders such as "user name" or "name of project you've been active on" or leave them untouched in English? Also, will there be notifications on the various village pumps? Thanks, Harel 20:02, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Harel. We'll probably replace the placeholders with plain text soon (username ? Wikimedian, and project where most active ? Wikipedia), so that they're easier to distribute. We will leave messages on community pages, for those voters who do not have confirmed email addresses. —{admin} Pathoschild 04:37:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your answer. I still do not understand how you're going to replace the name of the project, for example, in the local language, without the translators preparing the proper terms for that. But maybe there's some cool template that you can use for that. Harel 06:35, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
We don't have a cool template, but KTC is working on a cool script. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 23:10:45, 02 June 2008 (UTC)

Problem with voter list?

The following discussion is marked as answered (fixed). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi there,

Two users from hewiki told me that the voting system won't let them vote, although they (quite clearly) qualify to vote. These are he:User:??????? and he:User:???"?. Could you please advise? Harel 09:04, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Harel. According to our voter list, those two users are indefinitely blocked (in which case they could not vote). That's not accurate, although they do have a block history. I have to go, but I'll investigate it when I return this afternoon. Sorry for the inconvenience. —{admin} Pathoschild 09:10:43, 01 June 2008 (UTC)
Both are active, positive wikipedians. I know of a block history for one of them, and at any rate they are definitely not indefinitely blocked - you got something wrong in your data. I'll wait patiently. Harel 09:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Same also holds for he:User:??? ????. I sense you have some kind of system-wide problem. Is it possibly because of the user names with Hebrew characters?? (just a silly wild guess) - none of these users is indefblocked. Harel 09:40, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
This is most likely the problem. Everyone on hewiki was considered indefblocked and hence disqualified because the script used to generate the list of voters by Tim gave everyones IP as localhost, and that IP was blocked. This seems to be the same problem which is causing similar problems at nlwiki, with the same blocking administrator. Daniel (talk) 15:49, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, we unblocked I'll ask the voters who couldn't vote try again. Harel 15:52, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Harel, they still won't be able to. Tim will need to regenerate the list and send it to SPI, which will hopefully be done as soon as possible. Then, once SPI get it and update the list of eligable voters, then they will be able to vote. Asking them to try up until that point will be pointless. Daniel (talk) 15:56, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, I informed them as you said. I hope that's the end of the problems. Harel 16:00, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, we just heard back from SPI indicating they've updated their global lists. Maybe get one he person to try, and if it works, tell them all it has been fixed. Let me know if it works, also, please :) Daniel (talk) 16:02, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
Problem seems to be solved. Thanks a lot, Daniel! Harel 16:08, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

Vote : problem with the french welcome message

The following discussion is marked as answered (fixed). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild, i just report here a bug concerning the welcome message in french about the votation (https://wikimedia.spi-inc.org/index.php/Special:Boardvote) : the message appears speaking about Board Election 2007 and giving a link on Meta to the board candidates in 2007. And this is not due to the translation. Guérin Nicolas 19:50, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Looking into it... —{admin} Pathoschild 21:24:17, 03 June 2008 (UTC)
Fixed. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:52:11, 03 June 2008 (UTC)
I voted from the wp.fr and everything look all right. Thanks, the french version looks now stable. Guérin Nicolas (messages) 15:46, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia nomail list

The following discussion is marked as answered (question already answered). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.
Hi, please see my comment at that page’s talk page: it is not at all clear what one should put on the page to be excluded. Simply ~~~~? Cheers, H. (talk) 08:11, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Follow up about hacking the Board vote

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Please read my response at User talk:Daniel. Shalom Yechiel 02:27, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

Problem with the voting software: please read carefully!

See the last paragraph of User:Shalom Yechiel/2008 WMF Board elections.

Regarding the final paragraph of my statement: this is actually a very serious problem waiting to happen. Just to make sure I wasn't fooling myself, I actually tried to hijack an eligible account and succeeded in doing so. On English Wikipedia, the archives of WP:CHU are readily accessible, so all I had to do was to find a user who had 600+ edits including 50 edits between March 1 and May 31, 2008, and who had been renamed to another account. I succeeded in doing so. w:User:Ohyeahmormons renamed himself to w:User:Irk but did not create his old account to prevent impersonation. I just now created that account and logged into Special:BoardVote. I am in fact able to vote from that account even though the edits attributed to that account belong to someone else. I have far too much integrity to double-vote on a board election, but if there is a hole in the voting security system, someone is likely to exploit it, especially since I already spilled the w:WP:BEANS. I assume you have the ear of the Foundation representatives who are managing the election. Do me a favor and tell them about this security hole, and see what can be done to rectify the potential problem. I would summarize it like this: even when edits have been attributed to a new username on a local wiki, they are still attributed to the old username on the election software, and the old username can be created by anyone who wants it. I have no way of knowing how many accounts can be hijacked in this manner by someone determined to rig the election: probably a couple dozen. Certainly that's enough to warrant notification to the election governing body.

I'll sleep better at night if you can tell me that you've forwarded this concern to someone who can act upon it. Thank you. Shalom Yechiel 20:32, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Shalom Yachiel. Ohyeahmormons is not on the eligible voter list. When you go to Special:Boardvote, does it redirect you and say "Welcome Ohyeahmormons@enwiki"? Could you try casting a vote? (We'll strike the vote, so there's no need to worry about double-voting.) —{admin} Pathoschild 20:59:48, 05 June 2008 (UTC)
As best I can recall, on Thursday when I tried to enter the voting screen with Ohyeahmormons, I was given permission to see the voting screen, so I could have voted. When I tried again to enter just now, I was told that Ohyeahmormons is not eligible to vote. I'm not sure what changed.
Anyway, I assume the voting auditors have something similar to "checkuser", and if I had voted, it would have been from the same IP address as my main account. Hopefully that will be enough to deter any shenanigans. Shalom Yechiel 02:26, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes, we have access to the same information as checkusers and are on the lookout for abuse. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 03:28:34, 08 June 2008 (UTC)

hewiki checkusering

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi there,

I saw hewiki got central stage in the checkusering related to the board elections. That might be unsurprising, considering our very high turnout this time. I wish there were a way where you could contact some reliable person in our community and verify that certain users are not sockpuppets. We are a small community and we know the people personally. Some IPs are simply university labs and other places where many users edit from the same place. Maybe you can contant one of our checkusers (possibly not me, because I'm a candidate in this election). I can tell you that from looking at the names of users from hewiki who voted, I know the vast majority of them very well and cannot think who among them might possibly be sockpuppets. Harel 19:35, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thank you; there are a few cases we might need local checkusers' help with, as I noted in the archival section. We're looking closely at hewiki voters because they often edit from the same IP addresses with similar or identical software profiles; I think many users are voting from computer labs or behind ISP proxies, as you suggested. —{admin} Pathoschild 19:45:12, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
I sent you an e-mail explaining the specific cases you checked (I can view the logs on hewiki... which makes sense). They're all well known editors in our community with familial connections. They turn up at meetups and we know they're different people... Harel 19:47, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. Do you know the four users I checked after your email? —{admin} Pathoschild 20:19:16, 22 June 2008 (UTC)
Yes I do. Two siblings (living with their parents) and a couple (as in married couple). They're all wellknown, flesh-and-blood editors. Harel 20:37, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Board elections statistics

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi again. Another issue: some of the data you posted on your election-statistics-subpage here after the elections contains data that seems old and erroneous. It lists projects in a section that should be according to language, not project, and the numbers of voters are smaller than in [1]. It seems the data is both old and that there was some mixup along the way. Can you explain the differences? Harel 04:54, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. —{admin} Pathoschild 23:42:20, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Total number of eligible accounts

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

I'd like to make an estimate of the turnout in the board vote, but your statistics page doesn't quite give enough information. You quote 31900 accounts meeting edit-count requirements, but some of these are bots or are blocked, hence not eligible. You also quote 21804 unique accounts which are eligible and have a unique e-mail address. My reading of the rules is that you don't have to have an e-mail address to vote, so the question is, how many eligible accounts are there (or if you like, how many eligible accounts are there without e-mail addresses).

I do realise some of these will be multiple accounts belonging to the same person, but we can estimate this fraction based on your data on unique e-mails. PaddyLeahy 21:53, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Adjusted numbers:
  • 31900 accounts meet edit requirements;
  • ?28898 accounts are eligible (not bot or blocked);
  • ?21804 unique email addresses in valid format.
{admin} Pathoschild 14:39:55, 08 July 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, Pathos. Since you were in the Election Committee, could I ask you a suggestion? How could we use (and adapt) the Special:Boardvote code for Wikimedia Italia board elections (without the support of a third-party site)? Is this a good idea? Thanks, Nemo 19:22, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

It is possible, but you will need someone who can adjust the extension code for your needs:
  • the code needs changes to deal with different vote requirements, not using a third-party site, and so forth (ask KTC about what changes would be needed);
  • the interface messages need to be corrected, and non-Italian messages either removed or corrected too;
  • the extension uses Schulze preferential voting, so you would need to rewrite it if you want to use another voting system.
{admin} Pathoschild 02:52:26, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Hum, Wikimedia France will also need to work with this extension to manage its votes. Thank you for this information, I will also follow the discussion. Crochet.david 08:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. But, we can use the previous version, which did not use the Schulze method, can't we? --Nemo 12:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The previous version uses approval voting. You can probably use it, but the new version might contain bug fixes that you will not have. —{admin} Pathoschild 13:19:41, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


AJAX transclusion table


  • script doesn't seem to work in IE6
  • script doesn't seem to work in Opera 9
  • script breaks for some old skins, e.g. Nostalgia
  • &dontcountme=s is really obsolete
  • notice on MediaWiki talk:Common.js would be nice (I don't watch this forum)

However, the idea itself is nice and I support it. I suggest we move e.g. to Editing User talk:Pathoschild/Scripts/AJAX transclusion table to dicsuss technical details ? Alex Smotrov 06:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I moved the discussion to my talk page; I prefer to keep discussions in a few places, so they're easier to keep track of. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 06:53:22, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
It works in all skins now. —{admin} Pathoschild 07:28:47, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Now working in Opera 9. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:41:06, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Today I had the time to look at the code, found getAttribute('class') and table.innerHTML and then saw that you already fixed those, so I guess the code will work in IE soon.
I don't see why you need att object and why you have to "rebuild" the table. Also, 8 lines of code
for(var i=0; i<att.count; i++) {
		if(att.alltables[i].className) {
			if(att.alltables[i].className.match(/\battable\b/)) {
				att.tables[x] = att.alltables[i];
could be simple
for(var i=0; i<att.count; i++) {
		att.tables[x++] = att.alltables[i]
? Alex Smotrov 18:59, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
The object groups everything in a common namespace, which lets us use simple variable names without worrying about conflicts (like "rows" or "tables" or "count"). We need to rebuild tables because some browsers (like Firefox) do not allow row manipulation as table nodes, but only as tbody nodes. MediaWiki doesn't add the tbody element to tables, so we need to add them to the tables before we manipulate the rows. The script checks if there's a class first because some browsers give errors if you use .match() on something that is undefined (when checking an element with no class).
I'm working on it sporadically; it should work in Internet Explorer within a few days. Any other suggestions are welcome, of course. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:19:28, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

How was that colored brace-matching done? I proposed implementing such a thing for templates here. Snowball 22:24, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

It's handled by the SyntaxHighlight GeSHi extension. I suspect it would be difficult to add wikiML support, since it's not formally codified. It might also be difficult to apply to the edit box, because it uses HTML formatting (which cannot be used in a textbox) and would need to dynamically regenerate the formatting when the text was changed.
Syntax highlighting is possible with Javascript, although implementations that I know of are slow and unreliable. For example, see Cacycle's wikiEd. —{admin} Pathoschild 23:06:48, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Autofill edit reason using custom regex tool

The following discussion is marked as answered (use setreason() or native JavaScript). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Pathoschild, Sorry if you have the answer written somewhere already: I would like to set up the regex tool so that /foo/g -> bar is entered into the edit summary automatically. How can I do it? Hillgentleman 15:13, 3 May 2008 (UTC) P.S. At the moment the header occupies the whole page. It would be great if you could reduce most of it to a few lines. Hillgentleman 15:20, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

You can set it using setreason():
setreason('/foo/g -> bar');
You can also manipulate it directly using an alias:
editreason.value = '/foo/g -> bar';
Could you take a screenshot of the header? It's only a few lines at my resolution. —{admin} Pathoschild 15:34:00, 03 May 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered (fixed). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello, Pathoschild. I've copied your TemplateScript file to my monobook.js page, but it isn't working. Templates aren't appearing on Sidebar. Please let me know, what I must to do.--Srhat 06:04, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Srhat. I corrected the instructions and updated your JavaScript. It should work when you bypass your cache. (The script was broken by recently added restrictions for URL access points.) —{admin} Pathoschild 21:07:27, 04 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks--Srhat 15:11, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered (not implemented). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello Pathoschild.

/* use templates */
	if(form == 'edit') {
		/* append */
		inputbox.value += templates[templateid][2];

This code adds text to bottom of page. Many of templates must be added to top of page. To resolve this problem, we must change the code with this;

	if(form == 'edit') {
		/* append */
		inputbox.value = templates[templateid][2] + inputbox.value;

Thank you --Srhat 13:18, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello Srhat. Yes, that script is intended to append (rather than insert) templates. If you want more control, you might like the more advanced regex menu framework. —{admin} Pathoschild 16:09:52, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Template:User language category

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello Pathoschild, I figured that it is very hard to find a certain user-language - skill -level in the categories, therefore I added a toc, but N seems not to exist and 5 shows users with level 1 O.o Please could You maybe find out what the problem is, many thanks in advance, best regards, --birdy geimfyglið (:> )=| ? 07:57, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Fixed; the sort key doesn't match the proficiency codes, which would list users in reverse order. I added the links to the description text: "This category sorts German speakers by order of fluency (1=native, 2=fluent, 3=intermediate, 4=basic)." —{admin} Pathoschild 21:03:35, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Babel importer's log

The following discussion is marked as answered (fr). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Dear Pathoschild,

After deciding to implement the User language system in it.wikisource (and subsequently on la.source) I feel like a betatester, so I'm writing my thoughts here for your reflections.

  • I imported the main layout template (and called it it:s:Template:Utente), and I aimed to have it looking as similar as possible with the old box. I used your sandbox to pick up the gradient from pink to green and I arranged the code to keep the current subcategories. At the end I feel almot satisfied.
  • I've just finished with the localized subpages and I think I have understood their mechanism. I made a great effort last year in order to have the most updated babel templates so (with your permission) I could use their texts to add missing localizations here on meta. Tell me if there's something i should know.
I remain with a bad taste on my mouth when I had to adapt all this work with the pre-existing situation: most users all around the wikiworld have a code like {{babel|en|fr-3|es-2|pt-1}} and also in it. and la.source it works this way. I tried to find out a parserfunction workaround to transform "User fr-3" in "User

Bot flagged

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Pathosbot has been flagged, as consensus was very obvious at the forum where it was being discussed. Best of luck in its operation. Cheers, —Anonymous DissidentTalk 11:16, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 16:24:22, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

allowing template loop

Pathoschild, Do you know how to hack the mediawiki parser to allow template looping during transclusion (e.g. as you would do if you want to calculate n!) I only know how to write recursions for substituted templates (with the old double-parsing parser). --Hillgentleman 18:21, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

I can't think of a way to do so. Let me know if you find out, though. —Pathoschild 18:49:35, 18 October 2008 (UTC)


Bot for edits on the same page (e.g. user page) in every wiki

Sticking a note on your talk page. :p --Thogo (talk) 00:02, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

So the idea is it's a pywiki bot you'll run from your own account. It'll run through every wiki which exists, autocreating accounts as it goes, and will optionally write to your userpage and/or your monobook.js replacing whatever's there with specified text (possibly taken from a .txt file or somesuch). Should probably also accept a list of wikis not to touch.

I've received a bunch of complaints about people wanting to get into working cross-wiki, but who can't be bothered to add stuff to their monobook on that many wikis, so this will hopefully make things easier to recruit people. Thanks a ton.  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 00:11, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Done; anyone with a global account can leave a request on user:Pathoschild/Scripts/SynchCrosswiki. (I'll add a separate script users can run themselves to auto-create accounts on all wikis.) —Pathoschild 10:13:12, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Global page


I have heard you have a bot that can make a page on all wiki's. Is it possible with that bot to create a user page and a monobook css on all wiki? Cheers, Sterkebaktalk 05:59, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Yep; just leave a note on User:Pathoschild/Scripts/SynchCrosswiki. —Pathoschild 06:03:23, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

SynchCrossWiki script

Hi Pathoschild, I noticed that you are using the SynchCrossWiki script also on the Limburgish wiki. However, it created a monobook.js for a user (Shanel) who does not even have an account on the Limburgish wiki... - Pahles 16:04, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello Pahles. Shanel does have an account there, although she doesn't have a user page. Since she has a global account, her name is also reserved on every wiki; her local account would be created automatically on her next visit (if she didn't already have one). —Pathoschild 18:21:55, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Global notifications

Hello Pathoschild,
Spacebirdy told me that we both have started similar projects pretty the same time :-) You write that User:Pathoschild/Scripts/SynchCrosswiki will be done per requests. Does your bot run from a server? Global notifications will be fully automated, but only for announcements. My backend is implemented since months (like you, I will not publish that too, due to abuse reasons), only the "frontend" yet needs a little bit of work (for being as flexible as possible, hopefully). Spacebirdy asked whether we could work together (or how to complement best)! --- Best regards, Melancholie 10:24, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello Melancholie. I run the script from my computer, but it's implemented as a pywikipedia class so it could be run from a server. The bot can edit different pages on every wiki, place the most relevant translation available for the wiki's language, append (or prepend) rather than overwrite, can be fully automated (if conf_exist = False), and has error-handling. The interface is interactive command-line. However, it's not designed to be run indirectly (using a server script based on user input, for example); it's best run locally with occasional human supervision.
How is your script implemented, and what are its current capabilities? I'm fine with collaborating. —Pathoschild 18:46:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
My implementation is also based on PyWikipediaBot, bundled with a parsing Perl script. It will work from my server, autonomously (so it cannot be that flexible than yours, I think). It also has a multilingual function (MediaWiki based), but actually the very most notifications will be in English (will have to, as global).
I read that you do not yet work on some special wikis, use:
usernames['wikiversity']['beta'] = 'BotName'
usernames['wikisource']['-'] = 'BotName'
...betawiki [=i18n]?,omegawiki? --- Best regards, Melancholie 19:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I was looking for those. The script works from a list of targets; it would be easy to add non-Wikimedia wikis if someone asks, but I would need to create accounts there too. —Pathoschild 20:06:27, 29 October 2008 (UTC) (expanded below, edit conflict)
Thanks, I'll add those.
My bot uses pywikipedia's wikipedia.translate('lang', dictionary) function for multilingual support. You just pass it a language code and a list of translations, and it returns the best match.
The script works from a list of targets, so it is easy to add a new wiki (if it is supported by pywikipedia). For example, to edit the same title on a set of wikis:
wikis = [
    ('wikiversity', 'beta'),
    ('wikisource', '-'),
    ('i18n', 'i18n'),
    ('omegawiki', 'en')

# loop to process each page using bot.getNextPage() goes here
The main reason the bot doesn't include all Wikimedia wikis is laziness; each special wiki requires a special exception in the list script. ;) —Pathoschild 21:04:03, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Oh, and my bot does not have SysOp rights on all those wikis as you have as a steward ;-) So, editing others' *.js is not possible for me. --- Greetings, Melancholie 20:12, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

@pywikipedia dict: Having those Betawiki status updates in mind, I probably will have to change my MediaWiki based multilingual support to something like yours, too (to let my server do the work instead, as messages could be repetitive). But my parsing script is a Perl one, so no dict. By the way, it looks like you are using a modified pagefromfile.py; how will you handle updates of the original script? (although most could be modular, it's why I thought to better make parsing/executing parts separated) Have you thought about maintaining stuff like blacklists globally with your account (keeping it up-to-date)? --- Best regards, Melancholie 18:56, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

You could do the same with a Perl hash, but you'd need to port wikipedia.translate() to Perl. What do you mean by maintaining blacklists?
I haven't changed any pywikipedia files (except a few family files to fix open wikis marked as closed). The bot has a list-based iterator: bot.iterateOn(wikis) above parses the wikis list (imported from synchbot_config) into an internal stack of pages in the form (family, lang, title), filling missing values from the current site and page data (so you can have a list of page titles on one wiki, for example). Then I simply loop while bot.getNextPage(), which pops a page off the stack and sends it to bot.goto() to update the bot's internal Site and Page instances as needed.
Pathoschild 21:23:16, 01 November 2008 (UTC)
Ah, didn't know. @blacklists: Currently there are pages like blacklists that are maintained locally, sometimes outdated or even faulty. Just wondered if there could be a global part of such feature pages that is the same on all wikis (as for small and new ones that pages are even empty at all). --- Greetings, Melancholie 21:33, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
There's a global title blacklist on Meta, but the bot could do such tasks (using the usual request page). —Pathoschild 23:10:45, 01 November 2008 (UTC)

Current language code in content

Is it possible to have something that is written vary by wiki but the rest remain the same? I have text I'd like to propagate but it contains a language code which I would want to have be the language code of the local wiki (see User:Lar/Generic ... where it uses zz I want it to use whatever lang that wiki is if it makes sense for it to do so ) ... thanks. So in other words, something like substitution variables? This sounds really neat though. Thanks! ++Lar: t/c 22:07, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure, that would be easy to code; just make sure to mention that if you add a request. However, many wikis may not have those templates, and you don't have a local account on all wikis (I have a script to auto-create local accounts, if you'd like).
On a side note, this script would work very well for synchronizing the {{user language}} system on multiple wikis.Pathoschild 22:44:03, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
I've hand pasted some instances of what is in ...generic on some wikis where there were not templates and just left it that way. I seem to recall that in at least one case I came back and someone had created them in the interim. But yes, propagating the {{user language}} system seems like a very good idea to me... does it need buyin from the locals though, I wonder? If it WERE propagated I'd no doubt do some surgery on Generic to use it properly. Yes I also probably should go forth and use that auto-create-account script of yours too. I was doing it by hand from that one page you had but got bored :) (this was way before SUL) ++Lar: t/c 02:31, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Propagating the {{user language}} system probably needs local consensus on each wiki.
If you have Python installed, you can auto-create your accounts by running pywikipedia login.py -all -pass:PASSWORD with the configuration generated by pywikipedialist. —Pathoschild 08:32:02, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip! Worked a treat, except for a few anomalies... the generated config seems to have a few wikis that logon.py reports as not existing. Not sure where the best place to report that is, I can email you, or post to your main talk as the script page titlebar suggests? Just LMK. Now I just have to decide exactly what I want the box to say (it might need a tweak or two, although I think it's pretty sound) before I do the request. (it was fun standing on the refresh key for special:centralAuth and watching the list grow in real time) ++Lar: t/c 11:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
The pywikipedia developers tend to mark wikis as obsolete even if they're not locked; for example, yo.wikibooks.org is marked as obsolete (based on a closure discussion), despite still being open. The pywikipedialist script only skips wikis if they're actually closed. You can tweak pywikipedia to edit these wikis normally, but that's probably not worth it unless you're running on all wikis repeatedly. —Pathoschild 15:55:19, 30 October 2008 (UTC)


Is it possible to have this script do a search and replace, e.g. re.sub()? That would be useful to update existing pages without overwriting them. --Erwin(85) 19:25, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Yes, although that's wandering a bit outside its intended purpose. —Pathoschild 20:23:15, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
Not TOO far, I hope... it would be a very useful thing to do, to be able to update things if there was a reason to. ++Lar: t/c 01:21, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
Not so far now; its purpose has expanded a lot. It was originally designed as a simple overwrite script that edited the same title on all wikis, but now it's a full-fledge crosswiki bot. Anything a pywikipedia bot can do on one wiki, it can do on any number of wikis and titles. If there are particular tasks you have in mind, just leave a note on the request page. —Pathoschild 02:02:08, 02 November 2008 (UTC)
For now just the language code replacement thing was all I thought of... I get the idea you're working on more general regex replacement capability too though? ++Lar: t/c 13:25, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
It already has that. :) —Pathoschild 15:55:05, 02 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi, Thanks for making my userpage global. ;-)

Cheers, Sterkebaktalk 06:34, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Steward scripts

Hi... nosing around, I ran across this: User:Pathoschild/Scripts/StewardScript.js ... is it ready for prime time yet? As you know I currently use code you shared to "Add "quick access" boxes on Special:CentralAuth" ... I tried switching away from that to the StewardScript because it has that AND more nifty stuff. But my monobook's such a mess that i'm not sure if it failed because I did it wrong (probably) or because you're not quite done yet. (so I reverted back for now) ... one of these days I need to take the time to clean out all the cruft in there that's been replaced with gadgets and the like. It's kind of a chore to try to understand the differences among the various wikis so I've fallen behind on that. ++Lar: t/c 13:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Nope, it's not ready. I've been working on Ajax sysop lately, so I haven't had time to get that to a stable release. I'll let you know when it's ready for use. —Pathoschild 15:54:37, 02 November 2008 (UTC)

Global notifications summaries

Hi, the WikimediaNotifier currently just writes *** global announcement *** in the edit summary of each new message. Would it be possible to add some more useful information there, eg. the topic/title of the announcement? With such a small change, people could already decide on their watchlist or on recent changes whether they are interested to check out the news more closely. --Latebird 10:14, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello Latebird. I've passed your message to Melancholie, which runs WikimediaNotifier. You can watch for her response at User talk:Melancholie#Improve_edit_summary. —Pathoschild 18:31:32, 04 November 2008 (UTC)
Oops, just noticed that I was barking up the wrong tree here, sorry. There's a link to one of your scripts on the notifier page that led me to incorrect conclusions. Thanks for forwarding my question to the right place. --Latebird 21:13, 4 November 2008 (UTC)


Hi Pathoschild, Could you review my request ? It is the first time I ask something like this and I have fear that it could be wrong. Thank you Dferg (T-ES) 17:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC) P.D: I have some monobook's.js installed on some wikis. Will the bot remove them and rewrite again with my global.js code? Thank you. Dferg (T-ES) 17:00, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello Dferg. Yes, your request looks fine. What the bot does with existing pages depends on what you ask for. It can skip certain wikis, or overwrite/prepend/append/ignore existing pages. According to your request, you want the bot to overwrite existing pages (but skip some wikis). —Pathoschild 03:15:19, 22 November 2008 (UTC)
Hello Pathoschild. First at all: thank's for your clarification. Yes, I want the bot to overwrite existing pages and skip some wikis. I have updated the request to make it clearer. Au revoir Dferg (T-ES) 21:15, 23 November 2008 (UTC)

AJAX posting long pages

Hi, I'm working on a script to ease dealing with the Spam blacklist. It works perfectly on a test page, but as soon as I copy the blacklist's contents to that test page it only saves part of the page text, see hist. Do you have any idea why it doesn't work for long pages? The edit I made just now was done using your script, but the result is the same. (I had to change api.send(); in ajax_edit_token to api.send(null); by the way.) Thanks. --Erwin(85) 10:15, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Hello Erwin. Try using the MooTools Request module; it has a much wider developer base. I'm converting ajax sysop to MooTools, and it's very promising so far. I haven't encountered any bugs in different browsers so far, whereas my AJAX framework is in its early stages. If all goes well, I'll convert the Ajax framework to a library of function built on MooTools. —Pathoschild 03:08:17, 09 November 2008 (UTC)
Same problem. Thanks for the suggestion though. --Erwin(85) 11:42, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
Turns out it was an encoding issue. Should have thought of that sooner. --Erwin(85) 16:46, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

AJAX sysop

  1. Append / to the prefixindex to we're getting actual subpages on deletion form
  2. AJAX patrolling needed updating for some js quirk in FF3.0.3?

Thanks.  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 05:17, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. —Pathoschild 14:53:49, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Any chance we can avoid changing line height? Probably not using <sup> and making the spinner smaller will be required.  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 19:10, 17 November 2008 (UTC)
Pwetty pweety pwease?  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 18:28, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
(This was fixed sometime after that last comment.) —Pathoschild 01:34:39, 05 February 2009 (UTC)

reverting pagemove vandalism

...can be done, apparently. Not a javascript, but might be useful if you want to work on making one.  — Mike.lifeguard | @en.wb 18:25, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Error in Common.css

Hi. Regarding this edit: Could you please fix the css - there is no attribute "spacing", so this triggers CSS errors. It was discussed already here, but nothing happend. As it doesn't do anything in any browser, the most simple way is to just remove this. --APPER 00:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, done. —Pathoschild 03:44:55, 14 December 2008 (UTC)



J'apprécie cet outil, mais certains de ses aspects m'étonnent, par exemple <http://toolserver.org/~pathoschild/ls-testanalysis/?prefix=wp/ab>.

Budelberger 13:44, 20 December 2008 (UTC) ().

Bonjour Budelberger. L’utilisation directe du préfix étais d’origine délibéré, par exemple pour l’analyse de tous les Wiktionnaires. Cependant cet aspect n’a jamais été utilisé de ma connaissance, et ce serait très facile de le modifier s’il n’y a pas d’utilité. Que pensez-vous? —Pathoschild 07:33:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)


Looks like there is some ancient code in here (the AJAX SiteNotice script), which I imagine is on other wikis as well. Any possibility of getting that removed? :-) --MZMcBride 21:30, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, done. —Pathoschild 14:21:48, 22 December 2008 (UTC)


Dear, Please advise when this important analysis utility will be functional again http://toolserver.org/~pathoschild/ls-testanalysis/?prefix=wt/, I have been trying to view the analysis of Egyptian arabic wiktionaty but the connection had failed. It is very crucial for us and we are very much dependent on it to monitor the prpgress of the test project. Thank You very much in advance.--Ramsis II 18:48, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

The script should work now. The toolserver which hosts it was temporarily down for maintenance. —Pathoschild 19:06:33, 04 January 2009 (UTC)
Could you please check it yourself, It is apparently still out of order.Thank you--Ramsis II 06:56, 12 January 2009 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered (fixed). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

This tool prints Users who didn't leave user registration logs (registered before 2005) are not eligible to vote to steward elections because of registeration date. Please fix it.--Kwj2772 13:20, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

You might want to check for user_registration in the user table. It's NULL if the account was registered before this field was used, something like two years ago. Accounts with null values are thus eligible to vote. --Erwin(85) 21:35, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Fixed; the script first tries user_registration, then log_timestamp, then defaults to "before 2005" (see source code). —Pathoschild 23:35:00, 07 January 2009 (UTC)

Automated Statistics for Acehnese

The following discussion is marked as answered (technical problem with Wikimedia toolserver). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Jesse, why there is no statistics for Acehnese language in January? Thanx Mon Tasik 04:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello. The Wikimedia toolserver experienced technical problems a few weeks ago, so they stopped replicating the Wikimedia databases. This means the database the script has access to is out of date. The replicated database should slowly catch up, and the statistics should slowly become more recent. —Pathoschild 23:58:33, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for Common.js fix

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Thanks for fixing Common.js :)--Nick1915 - all you want 08:35, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

You're welcome. (For archival purposes: Common.js edit).Pathoschild 20:05:11, 03 February 2009 (UTC)

Suggestion for etymologyReader enhancement

The following discussion is marked as answered (fixed). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

I noticed at http://pathos.ca/tools/etymologyreader/index.php?example=1 that it does not expand the character string "equiv." to "equivalent". Most readers probably do understand the meaning of both of those strings, so perhaps it would not be a "big" improvement. So I am just suggesting that you consider that feature -- and you decide whether to actually "add" that feature. -- Mike Schwartz (talk) 06:46, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion; it should substitute it now. —Pathoschild 19:49:24, 01 February 2009 (UTC)
THANK YOU! -- Mike Schwartz (talk) 21:17, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Just by chance I saw this and clicked on the link to see what's the tool about. And I found a tiny error: c. is expanded to circa. But I'm pretty sure it means compare in the context G Angst fear, anxiety, OHG angust (c. MLG angest, MD anxt). --::Slomox:: >< 18:55, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
Also fixed; thanks. —Pathoschild 00:10:41, 05 February 2009 (UTC)

ls-testanalysis lagged

The following discussion is marked as answered (technical problem with Wikimedia toolserver). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Dear Pathos, the test analysis seemed to have stopped functioning since last decemeber 2008. I was just wondering whether that is a temporary problem and would be resolved in the future or otherwise, It will not operate any more. Many thanks--Ramsis II 10:21, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello Ramsis II. The Wikimedia toolserver experienced some technical difficulties around December 2008, and has essentially stopped replicating the database cluster that the incubator is in. The server admins have ordered new hardware, and the problem should be fixed when it arrives. —Pathoschild 11:22:50, 01 February 2009 (UTC)
Donc les contributions durant ces jours ne pourront pas être analysées ? Crochet.david 21:00, 1 February 2009 (UTC)
Ces contributions pourront être analysées une fois que le nouveau matériel est installé. —Pathoschild 21:03:42, 01 February 2009 (UTC)

AccountEligibility error with Classical Chinese Wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered (fixed). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello, I am very pleased that you designed an excellent tools for checking account eligibility for voting. However, there is a serious error, which is the wrong naming of the Classical Chinese WIkipedia database. As you can see from here [2], Unknown MySQL server host 'zh_classicalwiki-p.db.toolserver.org' (1), I think that it may be due to the typo mistake of "zh-classical" (now it is zh_classical), however it may be due to other errors that I do not know, and I hope that you can fix this as soon as possible, thanks a lot!--Itsmine 12:38, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for reporting it; I fixed it. —Pathoschild 19:24:12, 01 February 2009 (UTC)

AccountEligibility error: steward elections

The following discussion is marked as answered (technical problem with Wikimedia toolserver). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild, the 11852 on en.wikipedia.org is about right, but the last one is wrong (has 5584) well, its more than 50 edits, it doesn't matter for me, i was more curious, so you might check it again[3].

  • User id is 724747...
  • Verifying requirements...
  • is not blocked on Meta...
  • no bot flag...
  • has an account registered before 01 January 2009 (registered 20051226)...
  • has 600 edits before 01 November 2008 (has 11852)...
  • has 50 edits between 01 August 2008 and 31 January 2009 (has 5584)...

Cheers Mion 23:11, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Any inaccuracy is probably related to a technical problem with the Wikimedia Toolserver, which caused the halt of replication on some wikis around January. This should be fixed as soon as new hardware they ordered is installed. —Pathoschild 04:15:07, 03 February 2009 (UTC)
ok, clear enough, thanks Mion 21:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


Note to self: tool to search and scroll through Special:Globalusers, with filters by lock/hide status.

Language subcommittee

Wikipedia Pontic

The following discussion is marked as answered (moved to Talk:Language subcommittee/2008#Wikipedia Pontic). If you have a new comment, add it below.

Pages grecques dans la wikiversité d'incubation

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

En faisant le tri sur l'incubateur des wikiversités, j'ai trouvé cette page qui recense encore des pages en grecques. Est-ce qu'elle a encore une utilité ?
Merci d'avance. Crochet.david 06:45, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Non, je l'ai marqué pour suppression. —{admin} Pathoschild 08:20:25, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Hindi Wikinews

The following discussion is marked as answered (moved to Talk:Language subcommittee/2008#Wikinews Hindi). If you have a new comment, add it below.

Wikisource Venetian

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, I wrote 10 days ago to the langcom (here) asking about the current status of my request, but I didn't get any answer... I'm starting to think that my message wasn't noticed at all... Can you answer my question, or at least ask somebody else to do it? thanks. Candalua 12:35, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Done. —{admin} Pathoschild 12:05:13, 03 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikiversity Persian

The following discussion is marked as answered (moved to Talk:Language subcommittee/2008#Wikipedia Silesian). If you have a new comment, add it below.

Senang Hati

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Please see User talk:Herbythyme#Davenbelle about more sleepers. Cheers, User:Jack Merridew a.k.a. David 07:05, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Herby has suggested a Steward and I see that you are one; Hi! The discussion on his page is a bit further along and the sleeper on wikiquote has just been blocked, but there are others. I have a list at User talk:Jack Merridew/Matrix and with a few exceptions they should be blocked. Not on my say-so, of course, but if you look into this, I believe you'll deem about a half dozen block appropriate.

Cheers, User:Jack Merridew a.k.a. David 08:01, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

p.s. Senang Hati means 'Happy Heart' in Indonesian; see w:Senang Hati Foundation

Thanks for pointing this out. It is being discussed on Checkuser-l, and local checkusers will take the preventative actions they deem appropriate. —{admin} Pathoschild 00:17:26, 01 May 2008 (UTC)

persian wikinews

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

hi pathoschild .today i was cheking meta's old pages so i found this and it seems that process was fully done before .check this page. and new voting is here.so i think the project should begin.thanks indeed.--Mardetanha talk 16:20, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Mardetanha. That process was deprecated in 2006, and is no longer considered for the approval of new wikis. However, the wiki will be eligible for creation when the test project is consistently active with several editors. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:14:59, 04 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. i will try to motivate more people to be active there.thanks for your attention.--Mardetanha talk 21:42, 4 May 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild. I translated the variables you asked here. Thanks. Atabek 12:43, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. I'm only waiting for the Sakha translators, and then will file the request to create the wikis. —{admin} Pathoschild 19:15:18, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

<<<HELLO. I have a question regarding one of your translations. I saw the disputed "kavaz" where one translation says it means "cage." I can see the confusion due to the fact that the word "cage" translated to Bosnian/Serbian/Croatian is "kavez" with an "e". I am, however, curious as to what the word actually means. Your explanation was a bit unclear; does this word literally translate to "the bodyguard of a Pasha?" Once I was told that it means "soldier" in Turkish. Does this hold any truth? Can you please translate this word for me, I would greatly appreciate it. The reason I am curious is because I am writing an autobiography and I need to find out the history of my last name which is "Kavazovic." I already found out what the suffix "ovic" means. I really appreciate your further explanation of this word and any help you may give me.

Mercy K.>>> unsigned by on 08:50, 2 November 2008.

Sorry for not replying earlier; your message got lost among the older topics. I did not make any such translation, and cannot help since I do not speak any of those languages. Try asking native Turkish speaker Dsmurat, who also speaks English. —Pathoschild 16:52:05, 01 December 2008 (UTC)

Requests for new languages/Wikisource Limburgish‎

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

I will ask the Limburgish community for consensus soon. But I've got a question. When the wiki will be created, can I get import rights, so I can see more easily that all pages are imported correctly? I'm familiour with the import tools (I've used them on wikia for example) --OosWesThoesBes 07:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello OosWesThoesBes. I don't know when the wiki will be created; that depends on Wikimedia's system administrators, and there are wikis that have been waiting months. We've tried to get the wikis created as soon as possible with no success. You can discuss the delay on the Foundation-l mailing list.
To get import access, hold an election or discussion on the wiki and post a request on Steward requests/Permissions. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:18:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok, yes, I've seen that delay too. The hungarian Wikinews is waiting very long. 100 days? --OosWesThoesBes 08:44, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
The wiki has been created. —{admin} Pathoschild 23:44:22, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Final translation Wp/mdf

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Kranch provided translation needed, pls see [4]. Pls advise if anything else missing.--Numulunj pilgae 12:27, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Thanks; the wiki has been created. —{admin} Pathoschild 23:36:12, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

ISO code vs. sufficiently unique

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello Pathoschild, I'd like to know: do you share the views of GerardM on Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Westphalian#Other_discussion, that the language subcommittee accepts every language with an ISO code, even when the text of the language policy would indicate else? --::Slomox:: >< 12:30, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

No, Gerard's opinions are his own only. —{admin} Pathoschild 23:46:04, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
So, do you think his decision on the proposal is correct? --::Slomox:: >< 14:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I don't know enough about the languages to answer that; we'll need to investigate it more thoroughly before making a decision. Discussion on the page is one excellent source of information. —{admin} Pathoschild 03:05:10, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

Gan wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered (all settled). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Bonjour Pathoschild, je suis tellement content de te dire que Gan wikipedia est enfin crée. On a vraiment bien attendu pendant ces mois-ci. Mais je voudrais savoir quand ou comment on peut changer le logo de Gan wikipedia au lieu du logo de English wikipedia. En plus, il y a une chose grave qu'il y a presque d'un millier de pages de test project qui sont disparues après la création et il ne reste que 22 pages maintenant. Enfin, je viens de trouver quelque phrases mal traduises sur Gan Mediawiki, je voudrais savoir si l'on peut encore les corriger. Je te remercie!--Symane 15:05, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Bonjour Symane. Si vous avez choisi un logo, téléchargez-le sur le wiki et demandez aux sysadmins d'utiliser cet image (modèle de requête). Vous pouvez corriger les messages sur translatewiki en tous temps (les corrections apparaîtrons sur le wiki avec un petit délai de quelque jours).
En ce qui est des pages manquantes, nous allons nous occuper de ça à l'instant. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 01:03:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Les pages manquantes ont été importées. —{admin} Pathoschild 04:54:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Bonjour. Merci pour votre réponse et j'ai suivi ce que vous m'avez raconté "télécharger le logo sur le wiki", mais je suis désolé que je n'arrive même pas à réussir le 1er étape. On note L'action que vous essayez de réaliser n'est accessible qu'aux utilisateurs des groupes Utilisateurs enregistrés, Administrateurs sur gan:Special:Upload.
A propos des pages manquantes, j'ai vu que le chiffre a augmenté à 535. Je vous remercie pour votre travail et j'espère que toutes les pages sont déjà importées. --Symane 13:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
J'ai réussi à créer un bug pour changer le logo. Mais le problème existe encore, il me semble que l'on n'est pas authorisé de upload des images sur Gan Wikipedia.--Symane 15:16, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Toutes les pages ont été importées; voyez gan:User:Pathoschild/Sandbox#Titles to be imported ("titres devant être importés"). Si vous voulez permettre le téléchargement des images pour tous les éditeurs, obtenez un consensus pour ce faire et créer une nouvelle requête sur bugzilla. Cependant, il est préférable de télécharger les images libres sur le Wikimedia Commons. —{admin} Pathoschild 03:21:23, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Merci à vous, c'est très gentil. (Pour le téléchargement des images, on peut les télécharger sur Wiki Commons, c'est pareil.) Alors une dernière chose à vous déranger, peut Gan wikipedia avoir une liste de caractères au-dessous de la zone de modification comme Yue Wikipedia? Cela facilitera beaucoup à modifier les articles parce qu'il y a de nombreux de caractères qui ne sont pas soutients par les méthodes d'entrée générales. Vous m'avez dit qu'il est praticable, donc je peux vous fournir la liste n'importe quand. --Symane 07:58, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Encore une chose à dire, il est marqué qu'il y a 932 articles à part des modèles et catégories sur gan:User:Pathoschild/Sandbox, mais on dit qu'il y a 535 page sur la une de Gan Wikipedia. Donc doit-il être combien le chiffre dans l'histoire? Merci.--Symane 08:07, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
Tu peut ajouter une liste de caractères en créant gan:MediaWiki:Edittools avec un contenu similaire au suivant: <charinsert>Á á Ć ć</charinsert>.
Les statistique semblent ignorer "les pages minimales (« ébauches »)", ce qui pourrait expliquer le petite nombre puisque la majorité des articles sur le gan-Wikipedia sont encore minimes. Ca pourrait aussi être une erreur qui semble s'avoir produit sur plusieurs des nouveaux wikis (voyez bug 14359, problèmes avec les statistiques sur le Wikipedia Sakha). —{admin} Pathoschild 21:47:54, 02 June 2008 (UTC)
Merci! J'ai ajouté une liste de caractères toute à l'heure, gan:Template:Edittools. Mais on n'a pas d'authorisation de modifier gan:MediaWiki:Edittools. Je ne sais pas comment mettre en oeuvre la liste finalement.--Symane 11:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
J'ai placé {{edittools}} sur MediaWiki:Edittools, ce qui vous permet de le modifier indirectement sans accès sysop. Je suggère l'élection de sysops sur gan-Wikipedia. —{admin} Pathoschild 19:38:21, 03 June 2008 (UTC)
OK, tout est parfait maintenant. Je vous remercie et je reserve le droit de vous déranger en tous temps. :) A plus. --Symane 11:40, 5 June 2008 (UTC)
Encore un petit problème, j'ai créé un page sur gan:User:Symane/MediaWiki:Common.css, pouvez-vous le transporter à gan:MediaWiki:Common.css afin de changer la taille de police des caractères sur Gan wiki. Merci. --Symane 13:24, 9 June 2008 (UTC)--Symane 10:26, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered (request looks fine). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello, could you please have a look at this proposition[5], whether it is placed and listed in the right place and whether the discussion follows the proper pattern. Thank you very much in advance.--Moldopodo 15:21, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

It looks fine. —{admin} Pathoschild 23:13:14, 02 June 2008 (UTC)

Cebuano Wiktionary

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, Pathoschild! I'm Abastillas, a Cebuano Wikipedian. I would like to ask for your help, as we would like to "re-request" the Cebuano Wikipedia, but I don't have the slightest idea how. Hope you could help. Thanks! --Abastillas 14:05, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Abastillas. Please follow the procedure explained at Meta:Language proposal policy, with the request page at Requests for new languages/Wiktionary Cebuano 2. —{admin} Pathoschild 14:48:34, 08 July 2008 (UTC)

Teochew language code request

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild,

We are currently requesting for the creation of the Teochew language edition of Wikipedia.

The problem now is that, Teochew is currently classified as a 'dialect' of Minnan and so Teochew currently does not have an ISO-639-3 recognition.

According to Glossika, Teochew has an overall 50.4% of mutual intelligibility with the Xiamen dialect (Minnan). (This can be contrasted with the Galician language having an 85% intelligibility with the Portuguese language [6]).

The Writing system used by the online Teochew community is the modified version of the Guangdong romanization system called "Peng'im". (For example, the "Teochew language" would be written as "Dio7 ziu1 uê7")

The Teochew community do not use the POJ writing system which was adopted on Minnan Wikipedia. Most of them have grave difficulty reading and writing in POJ. In fact, the Taiwanese contributors on Minnan Wikipedia admit that Teochew is distinct enough to be given a separate Wikipedia (See the discussion).

Due to these facts, I believe that the Teochew language is unique enough to deserve being given its own distinct ISO-639-3 language code recognition. I also believe that the online Teochew and Taiwanese Minnan community would be willing to support the creation of a Teochew Wikipedia separate from Minnan Wikipedia.

Would it be possible if you could help submit a Request for Change to ISO 639-3 Language Code form?

Regards, --Jose77 23:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm not personally well-acquainted with the ISO 639-3 processes, but I think GerardM will be able to help you. —{admin} Pathoschild 18:27:23, 25 July 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Can you please sort the request for new languages again ? Thanks, GerardM 08:23, 2 August 2008 (UTC)

Done. —{admin} Pathoschild 19:58:48, 02 August 2008 (UTC)

Pontic Wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello pathoschild. We finished translation of the most-used messages and now, we must do an active project to create pontic community. whether need something alse? --Consta 07:56, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

No, that is the only remaining requirement. —{admin} Pathoschild 13:49:49, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello again pathos, I saw that all wikipedias who have created their own logo. Hence the Pontic community wants to acquire its own logo. There are many logos like as greek anh english wikipedia:

The above text(down the wikipedias' logo) is translated in Pontic as: Τ' ανοιχτόν η εγκυκλοπαίδεια (The Free Encyclopedia) and the greek term Βικιπαίδεια above the main text. Do you know how we can do that - what should go?--Consta 10:53, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

You can make a logo request, but it will be much faster if you can find someone to modify the image yourself. —{admin} Pathoschild 18:50:36, 03 September 2008 (UTC)

Pontic wiki

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

I saw that the pontic wiki approved when we move to : pnt.wikipedia.org?--Consta 16:06, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

The Pontic Wikipedia is not approved yet, although the subcommittee is currently discussing whether to do so. Ideally, it should be approved within a week. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:26:59, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

What discussion where ? Thanks, GerardM 21:45, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

The discussion on your talk page. The original request was for a Mainfränkisch Wikipedia that would include Old Frankish. You explained that your rejection was due to its inclusion of Old Frankish; I removed Old Frankish from the request as suggested, so the request is now valid. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:13:52, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
What has not been clarified is that in the places mentioned people speak Main-Frankish. So your analysis is wrong. GerardM 05:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
People in the mentioned places speak Main Frankish. What's the problem with that? Why does this invalidate Pathoschild's analysis? --::Slomox:: >< 09:12, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Logo problem in the Tarandíne Wikipedia

Hello Pathoschild. We have a problem with the corner logo on the Tarandíne Wikipedia (roa-tara.wiki). We have now our local logo but we currectly can't switch from the English one to our translated one. That's because there's a mistake we can't correct ourselves. See this extract from the source code of our main page:

<div class="portlet" id="p-logo">
		<a style="background-image: url(/images/wiki-en.png);" href="/wiki/Pagene_Prengep%C3%A1le" title="Visit the Main Page [z]" accesskey="z"></a>

As you can see, the it uses a file path to global file. Thus, we can't replace the logo with the translated version (or special anniversary versions) by simply replacing the file.

A correct source code would look like this excerpt from the Asturian Wikipedia:

	<div class="portlet" id="p-logo">
		<a style="background-image: url(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ast/b/bc/Wiki.png);" href="/wiki/Portada" title="Visita a la Portada [z]" accesskey="z"></a>


By the /ast/ in the file path you can clearly see that it uses a file that's uploaded locally to the Asturian Wikipedia. And if you give a look to the file history of their logo, you can see that they've already used several special-occasion logos.

We have now replaced our logo by adding a script to our Monobook.css, but this only works with Firefox, while in IE you see two logos. Also, the logo can't be clicked to reach the main page.

I hope you can help us solving this problem :-)

Greets, Kazu89 14:00, 29 September 2008 (UTC), Administrator with user name Andreas on roa-tara.wiki

Hello Kazu89. To file a request to change the logo (you only need to do this once, then you can upload new versions):
  1. click this link to auto-start a ticket (register an account or log in if necessary);
  2. review the form and link to a discussion if there was one;
  3. click "Commit".
{admin} Pathoschild 18:43:23, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Samoic Tongan

Hello Pathoschild, you restored Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Swabian after I tried to "discuss" (or whatever the right word is for talking to him and he responding with the eversame [most often unrelated] arguments) the topic with GerardM. Gerard has done the same with Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Samoic Tongan. Could you restore and properly close (if Gerard's asessment was right) the request too? --::Slomox:: >< 14:49, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Restored and deleted; there appears to be no such language. —Pathoschild 22:47:20, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Wiktionary Masry

Dear Pathoschild, the follwong request for update was made by user Ghaly few days ago, and i would really appreicates if you could write a line or two telling us if we are on the right track or close to success in the near future:

  • I think on the analysis script now shows 14 editors, including 6 non grayed editors four of them are known active users for a long time on wikipedia Masry and on wikitionary Masry as well , would that make any difference to the possibility of approval? Ghaly 07:08, 25 October 2008 (UTC)
Many Thanks--Ramsis II 16:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)


I saw that you upgrade the page discussion of pontic wikipedia and meet all the criteria. The proposal has been filed in language subcommittee and after in Board of Trustees? When we 'll have an answer? --Consta 13:48, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on ext.wiki and arz.wiki

Hello Pathoschild, ext.wiki and arz.wiki did not object the bot policy proposal. Regards, --Julian 12:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Implemented, thanks. —Pathoschild 15:04:19, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Language (not new one) Question

Concerning the "West-Vloams" version vls:Voorblad. This version focuses on the "West-Flemish" dialect of the Flemish 'language', whereas the language extension (vls) if a term for all Flemish dialects. (See http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=vls)

I was in fact considering trying to set up an "East-Flemish" version in the long run (get supporters first), but I wouldn't be able to request it because the vls code is already in use?

Sorry to bother you with this. :) Sidearm 07:30, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

This sounds like what we got with the Norwegian languages: We first created a Wikipedia for "Norwegian" (no), later it was added a "Norwegian (nynorsk), and languagepolicy on nowikipedia was changed so that the Wikipedia was written on "Norwegian (bokmål)", and the subdomain was kept to no and nb (which is the correct languagecode for Norwegian (bokmål)) was added as a redirect to no. See also the emails sent to wikipedia-l-mailinglist some year ago.
Laaknor 09:45, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Hello Sidearm. The vls.wikipedia domain is reserved for a Flemish Wikipedia, even if the community focuses on the West Flemish dialect. Are there particular problems with including both on the same wiki, such as community hostility or mutual incomprehensibility?
Pathoschild 15:08:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Nevermind, I would say. More reflection on this matter has led me to conclude that "East-Flemish" in itself is composed of many dialects, and no standard is clear. "West-Flemish", however, is as good as unified throughout the area, with small local and regional differences. The dialects of "East-Flemish" (and other) are just too small and different for each (or even some) to be present in one or a set of different wikis.

Thanks for the quick support though!
Sidearm 15:41, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Approval Process for Pontic Greek

Hello Pathos, on a condition you have: verify test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert.

We want to ask you where to be verified the professor or expert? On page project? language sucommitee? where? --Consta 09:50, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello Consta. Please have them contact me at pathoschild@gmail (I'll forward to the private subcommittee list), or send me their contact information. —Pathoschild 15:43:04, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Third Proposal for a Montenegrin Wikipedia

Currently, there are ongoing lobbys preparing to raise up the issue of the lack of a Wikipedia in the Montenegrin language. What are the chances, possibilities, that the 3rd proposal passes? With regads, --PaxEquilibrium 21:29, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

None, unless the reasons specified for the rejection of the first and second proposals are addressed. —Pathoschild 00:39:11, 05 January 2009 (UTC)
Is that just your personal opinion, or...?
There has been something in the meantime - in late 2007, the Parliament of Montenegro had adopted a new Constitution, which made Montenegrin official language next to Serbian, which was the sole one prior to that moment. --PaxEquilibrium 22:28, 5 January 2009 (UTC)
That's good for you, but here, they need an ISO (or SIL) code for a language (except « vi-nom » and others…) ; a language, they say, can't exist if it hasn't a code… (Before ISO and SIL, nobody was talking with some language in this wild world… How can you talk – silly of you ! – in Montenegrin without a SIL code ?) Do you know what to do ? Ask your Government/Parliament to ask for a code ! --Budelberger 03:56, 6 January 2009 (UTC) ().
Uhm...I'm not sure I fully follow...? --PaxEquilibrium 14:40, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the update. National status in Montenegro does not change the status of the language itself for this purpose; many Wikimedia languages are not national languages, for example. The language would still need to meet the requirements laid out by the Language proposal policy, specifically mutual unintelligibility with other languages and an ISO 639-3 code (which can be obtained through the registration authority, which consists of various linguistic experts). —Pathoschild 17:41:16, 06 January 2009 (UTC)
So let me get this straight - basicly, after the Montenegrin language receives its first Grammar, Dictionary and Orthography by the end of this year, it should only receive an ISO code and recognition from the SIL, a Montenegrin Wikipedia will be allowed?
By the way, could you explain a bit on the mutual unintelligability? --PaxEquilibrium 11:50, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
When Montenegrin has made the political moves to establish its sovereignty over its language, it does not mean that it is sufficiently different from Serbian or other Serbocroation languages not to be mutually understood. In many ways, this would create a situation that is similar as the one between British, Canadian and US English. It is then for the language committee to decide if Montenegrin is sufficiently different or not to be considered eligible for its own projects. Thanks, GerardM 12:47, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
What I'm attempting over here is a hypothetical discussion - what is the point to start a new Wikipedia language request, if we know from start that it'll be rejected. So, let us discuss. The language spoken by most in the state called Montenegro is, yes, mutually intelligabile with other Serbo-Croatian languages (especially Serbian).
It would be absolutely pointless to start a new request, so I stress that we know this first hand - what I've said to the above, is a fact. So, taking this to granted - when/if the language, within several years (preferably by the end of 2014) gets its ISO code and becomes fully standardized, will a Montenegrin Wikipedia be allowed?
I ask this, because from GerardM's response (through logical interpretation of his points), the assumption I receive is: It won't. --PaxEquilibrium 22:57, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Steward tasks

Moteurs externes sur ja:

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.


J'ai corrigé le javascript pour les moteurs externes sur ja: et je cherche quelqu'un pour mettre la correction en place... ma version modifiée est ici : http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Guillaumito/monobook.js (au début, je comptais demander à un admin ja:, mais il semblerait que ceux ayant touché récemment à common.js sont en wikibreak, vacances, etc.). J'ai profité de la correction pour ajouter le moteur wikiwix (il est placé en premier pour l'instant, mais je peux modifier si cela ne convient pas).

Guillaumito 12:46, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Bonjour Guillaumito. Demande s'il vous plait à un admin sur le wiki; je ne peut éditer l'interface sauf en cas d'urgence ou à la requête d'un admin. —{admin} Pathoschild 19:22:40, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

New flags for AlleborgoBot

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi! Can you set bot status for my AlleborgoBot and AlleborgoBot? These wiki has no bureucrat and bot policy approved. Thank you very much. --Alleborgo 12:02, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. —{admin} Pathoschild 19:51:02, 04 June 2008 (UTC)

Steward request on Ro:Wikiquote

The following discussion is marked as answered (done). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello! I am a sysop at Romanian Wikiquote and I'd like to request something: see this and please flag "WelcomeBot". It's my own bot and the period for voting has expired. Thank you a lot! --Firilacroco 12:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. —{admin} Pathoschild 20:16:55, 04 June 2008 (UTC)

Poll for global sysops

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

May you prepare the voting page for global sysops policy? I am definitely bad with finding right templates and so on... --Millosh 09:51, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I created a rough draft at Steward requests/Global permissions. —{admin} Pathoschild 04:10:49, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for confusing wording: I asked you for making a poll for the adoption of the policy :) (While the page for the permissions is needed, too.) --Millosh
You should probably do that on Metapub instead of a separate page. (You don't need any templates, just summarize the proposal.) —{admin} Pathoschild 04:28:47, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Done. And thanks! --Millosh 11:35, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

batch bot request

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

hi, Pathoschild, I request for several bot flags and list here follwing the instruction of user:birdy. can you help me to authorize the bot flag. Thanks!--Vipuser 14:46, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

I've proposed the bot policy on that wiki. —{admin} Pathoschild 05:16:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! can you authorize gan:user:vipbot and gan:user:CarsracBot right now, because these two bots edited so many times every day and listed on the recent pages influence the human users.--Vipuser 08:28, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
I flagged CarsracBot ahead of the standard bot policy implementation, but Vipbot is not eligible for steward approval under the policy. You'll need to wait for the vote period to be over. —{admin} Pathoschild 17:16:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Sallut Pathoschild, je voudrais bien savoir si il faut être renommé aux labs pour l'unified login. C'est le dernier projet où j'ai une compte. Si oui, je dois faire un demande ici? Le projet a seulement deux bureaucrates. Merci beucoup pour votre aide. - Jorge Morais 14:28, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Bonjour Jorge Morais. Vos noms doivent être identiques pour l'unification. Vous pouvez faire votre demande auprès de Bastique, un bureaucrate actif selon une analyse.
À titre d'information, la connexion automatique au wikis n'inclut pas le domaine wikimedia.org, sauf Meta et Commons (les autres bénéfices de l'unification sont toutefois disponible sur ces wikis). Ceci est une mesure de sécurité, puisque il y a plusieurs wikis privés sur le domaine. Voyez bug 14407: "CentralAuth global session not including wikipecies, incubator".
{admin} Pathoschild 15:40:55, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

New bot policy for some wiki

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi! Since I've implemented the standard bot policy on some new wiki (ch, ilo) I ask you to give a bot flag to my bot on those wiki:

If you think that has sense there are also these well known bots on that wikies:

Thank you very much! --Alleborgo 10:16, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

All done except SpBot@chwiki, which hasn't done the test edits required for automatic approval (100 edits or 1 week). —{admin} Pathoschild 14:22:35, 08 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you very much again! --Alleborgo 07:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Applicability of the Standard Bot Policy in wiki with bureaucrat

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, Pathoschild. I would like to ask you a question regarding the applicability of the Standard Bot Policy.

I'm currently a bureaucreat in the Georgian Wiktionary. This wiki has very low activity and I'm kind of a "honorary" bureaucrat. Truth is, I check the site not very often and it's likely that bot requests may linger there for some time unanswered. So, my question is, despite there being a bureaucreat (me), is it still possible to enforce the Standard Bot Policy with automatic approval? Thanks, Malafaya 10:16, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, it can be used if there are local bureaucrats, and there is a template text for such cases. See Bot policy/Implementation for more information, and feel free to ask me if you have other questions. —{admin} Pathoschild 14:58:03, 08 July 2008 (UTC)

Logo at ext wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild! I have a problem, i hope you could help me. Sometime ago,i ask you about how to change the logo in the wikipedia, i did the request but the problem is that the logo continue being in english :( I don't know if this is normal (may be they are on holidays) but well... i would like to be sure. Thank you! Better 09:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes, our system administrators can be slow to respond to individual requests. You can try poking them in the #wikimedia-tech IRC channel, or constructively commenting on the bug request page so that it reappears in the recent changes. —{admin} Pathoschild 16:15:37, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Gan Wikitionary

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Patho, could you please create a Wikitionary for Gan language. Gan has already her own Wikipedia, so I plan to developpe another wiki projet with others, in order to make a good dictionary of Gan's whole vocabulary. Thank you! --Symane 12:45, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Please see Requests for new languages for information relating to starting a new project. Cbrown1023 talk 13:56, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
[7], [8], it's okay? --Symane 11:53, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
Yes, those are fine. —{admin} Pathoschild 18:43:40, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

re:Request for global rollback

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello .snoopy.. Please provide some links or other evidence to support your request for global rollback (see example), as requested on the global rollback description page. This makes it easier to review a request, and makes it more clear to interested users why you are suitable for the access (which is important to avoid controversy during the implementation of the global rollback group). Thanks. —{admin} Pathoschild 06:28:49, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. I put some links in the discussion. --.snoopy. ? 07:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)

Global bot

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Can you explain about global bot? I think global bot is cross-wiki bot status. is it correct?--Kwj2772 07:03, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Yes. There is a list of wikis called 'standard bot policy', which contains the wikis that have agreed to allow global bots. When a bot is approved for global bot access, it is simultaneously flagged as a bot on all those wikis (and any future wikis that agree to global bots). This reduces workload for both bot operators and communities, since it's no longer necessary to make a new request for every wiki (if the bot is only for accepted uncontroversial tasks). —{admin} Pathoschild 08:09:43, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello Pathoschild. About the set of wikis "Standard bot policy", I see the following log:

04:48, 25 lug 2008 Pathoschild (discussione | contributi) created opt-in based wiki set Standard bot policy with following wikis: aywiki, bawiki, bclwiki, bmwiki, bpywiki, cbk_zamwiki, cdowiki, chwiki, crhwiki, cswikinews, csbwiki, cuwiki, diqwiki, dsbwiki, eowiktionary, frpwiki, furwiki, gawiktionary, ganwiki, gdwiktionary, guwiki, gvwiki, hawwiki, hiwiki, hifwiki, hsbwiki, huwikinews, iewiki, igwiki, ilowiki, iowiki, itwikibooks, itwiki, itwikiquote, iuwiki, jbowiki, kawiktionary, kaawiki, knwiki, kowikiquote, kowikisource, kwwiki, kywiki, ladwiki, liwiktionary, lmowiki, ltwiktionary, metawiki, map_bmswiki, mdfwiki, mkwiki, mnwiki, myvwiki, nawiki, nahwiki, newwiki, novwiki, nvwiki, omwiki, oswiki, pawiki, papwiki, pswiki, rowikiquote, ruwikibooks, rmywiki, sawiki, sahwiki, siwiki, sdwiki, simplewikiquote, skwiktionary, smwiki, sowiki, swwiki, tiwiki, tnwiki, towiki, ugwiktionary, uzwiki, wawiki, wuuwiki, yiwiki, yowiki, zh_min_nanwiktionary ? (Wikis using the standard bot policy, for eventual sharing of eligible bot access)

You also included the wikis which decided not to join the standard bot policy (they're metawiki, itwiki and sowiki). Please remove them from the group. :-) --Pietrodn · talk with me 13:14, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

There are no global bots yet, so the group was initially created with all the standard policy wikis (since it cannot be created empty). Now that some wikis have approved global bots, I'll replace the list with those that have opted in. —{admin} Pathoschild 15:21:28, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Metawiki subscribes to the standard bot policy. I don't think I've ever seen otherwise. Kylu 03:33, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
It does, but until recently it was mistakenly listed as not allowing steward approval. I corrected that today. —{admin} Pathoschild 04:29:19, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

And, it can be applied in wiki which doesn't have "standard bot policy"?--Kwj2772 02:35, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

It is possible, but the requirements and policy for global bots is defined by the standard bot policy. Are you thinking of a particular wiki, or is that a hypothetical question? —{admin} Pathoschild 03:00:56, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Meta-Steward relationship

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

We could use you at WM:MSR also, Pathoschild. :) Kylu 04:36, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

I think that may be useful as a descriptive page, but there's no need to have it as policy. It adds very little not already covered by existing policies, particularly by the stewards policy. What it adds could neatly be covered elsewhere; for example, the "Sensitive permissions" section could be a single sentence on the relevant request pages. —{admin} Pathoschild 16:51:13, 04 August 2008 (UTC)

Global bot on wuu wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.


I moved your proposition here, where more people come.

I approve this proposition, because the communauty is very small.


--Hercule 19:00, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. —{admin} Pathoschild 04:29:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy/Implementation

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathos. I added EnWP to this page and the corresponding template, per the discussion I've linked to. I wasn't sure about the step at Bot_policy/Implementation#Implementation considering EnWP already has a fully fledged bot policy and things might work a bit differently there to other wikis. Can you advise on if that statement should still be added to the local bot policy page? (And I take it you'll (as a steward) be opting into the global bot group now?). Cheers. —Giggy 10:57, 3 August 2008 (UTC) (EnWP bot approvals group member)

I've added a short note to en-Wikipedia's bot policy page that it allows global bots, adjusted the global list to show that it otherwise does not use the policy, and enabled global bots on that wiki. —{admin} Pathoschild 17:00:33, 04 August 2008 (UTC)
Looks good, thanks. —Giggy 23:37, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, why did you move down #Community consensus in the Bot policy? I want to try implementing it on nlwiki, where we have an active community and active bureaucrats, but to me the current version isn't clear in that case. For example the Automatic approval states "If there is no such community", but there has been no mention of a community yet. Based on the older version I believe that operators can get either global bot status or need community approval. Is that correct or can they also apply for automatic approval here without input from our community or bureaucrats? Cheers, Erwin(85) 11:13, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing that out; do these clarifications help? —{admin} Pathoschild 17:28:47, 04 August 2008 (UTC)
They do. Thanks. --Erwin(85) 18:02, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Global bots on kl Wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, global bots were recently allowed on kl Wikipedia, but the edits of my bot are visible. Should somebody turn on this feature? --Silvonen 03:26, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Now sswiki has the same problem. I suppose we should add some instructions for those who allow global bots in their projects? --Silvonen 17:23, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for the delay, I've been visiting a friend recently. I updated the list, so they should be flagged on those wikis now. —{admin} Pathoschild 07:00:35, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Global bots on ruwiki

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

The use of policy was approved for global bots only (like with enwiki) — vvv 15:35, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, updated. —{admin} Pathoschild 07:01:04, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Global bot status

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathos. Can you remove global bot status from WikiDreamer Bot? This bot is running one year old version! In enwiki, Bot flag was removed and blocked with an expiry time of indefinite. In frwiki and itwiki, Flag removal requests are currently in progress. Removing global bot status from this bot can be done with standard bot policy? I'd like to know that. Best regards.--Kwj2772 04:52, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

oops. Already done by User:Darkoneko. I'm sorry.--Kwj2772 14:32, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Add Wikimania to wikimedia.org portal

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Pathos, could you update the grid at http://wikimedia.org/ (at Www.wikimedia.org_template) to include a link at the bottom (under the Meta image), to the Wikimania site at [9]?

Also could you update the link redirect at the http://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page site to point at the 2009 Wikimania page, not the 2008 page? I just remember you having some pretty good coding skills at this sorta thing. unsigned by MBisanz 14:57, 2 September 2008.

I added Wikimania to the template, but I cannot update the subdomain redirect. Please ask developers in #wikimedia-tech. —{admin} Pathoschild 16:12:51, 02 September 2008 (UTC)
Thank you . MBisanz talk 16:33, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Global bots in Lithuanian Wiktionary

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

I'm support global bots. Marking of global bots are more designed to local administrators. And this are not additional requirements on individual global bot.

Global bot policy in Lithuanian Wiktionary is accepted by time lag and without objections. Please update the local policy. --Vpovilaitis apt. 08:30, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Request for checkuser -->JackyCheung@zhwikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

HI,Pathoschild Please check the IP of this user .This user is accused for using anonymous IP user to do damaging.I hope you can check it as soon as possible since the user is now being blocked by admins of chinese wikipedia.Anyway, thanks for helping.

--Jacky Jai 13:31, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello Jai. Please ask on Steward requests/Checkuser, and also say which IP address he is accused of using to vandalize. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:07:01, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
hi.Can the result of checking keep secret?--Jacky Jai 08:38, 17 September 2008 (UTC) is the IP which was vandalizing,please check--Jacky Jai 08:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
Steward actions must be public. Details can be kept confidential in unusual cases when it is necessary, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. —{admin} Pathoschild 05:05:37, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Global bots on afwiki

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild, global bots are allowed on afwiki, but their edits are not yet hidden. --Silvonen 05:34, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

Fixed. It hadn't been added to the software's whitelist yet. —{admin} Pathoschild 06:52:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Thanks! BTW, can ordinary users see the whitelist somewhere? --Silvonen 08:48, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
Not on the wiki, but I wrote a script to show global group data at toolserver.org/~pathoschild/globalgroups. —{admin} Pathoschild 11:38:38, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

error on simple.wiki

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild, can you correct my error on simple.wiki? Zxabot is a bot, and not a sysop. thanks :) --.snoopy. ? 07:09, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

I've removed their sysop access. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 07:14:27, 21 September 2008 (UTC)

admin for papiamento

The following discussion is marked as answered (see Steward requests/Permissions). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

I think I would like to become an Admin for the Papiamento Wikipedia. I am relatively new to editing Wikipedia so I don't know how or if I should pursue this. I have some ideas for promoting the Wikipedia to native speakers and trying to get more involvement but I don't want to try that until there is an Admin checking in at least once a day. Have you any advice or suggestions? --Rikat 23:15, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello Rikat. You can request renewable temporary administrator status on Steward requests/Permissions. Permanent access is only given after election by the community. —{admin} Pathoschild 13:41:20, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on Ewe

The following discussion is marked as answered (done). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

ee: Wikipedia has agreed to introduce standard bot policy, including global bots. See http://ee.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Takpekpew%C9%94%C6%92e. I'm writing this to you rather than doing it myself because I'm afraid I would forget a step in the latter case. - Andre Engels 10:29, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Done. —{admin} Pathoschild 14:01:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Ptbotgourou on IUwikipedia

Dear Pathoschild, first thanks to take in charge most of my bot flag request and to be so comprehensive. Regarding the this request, I'm a bit disappointed because my bot already have the global bot flag... so I don't understood the local sysop response... Should I redo my request ? --Gdgourou 21:41, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Since you have global bot access, it's not necessary to request bot access on any wiki where global bots are enabled. They are enabled on iuwiki. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:03:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
OK I understood but should it be better if my bot has the bot flag on each wiki ? Because the SUL doesn't indicate that my bot has the bot flag on IU and lot others... --Gdgourou 22:10, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
No, your global bot access is listed on Special:GlobalUsers/Global_bot and SUL:Ptbotgourou. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:25:59, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I perhaps a bit stupid (doesn't hesitate to say so ;-) ) but to have a local bot flag, I should make a request for each wiki that allow automatic approval or not ? --Gdgourou 22:40, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, although you shouldn't request for wikis that allow global bots (that defeats the purpose of having the global bot flag). —{admin} Pathoschild 22:43:06, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I don't understood something but couldn't find what. At this time, my bot has the flag bot on almost 45 wikis, according to the SUL. He don't have the flag on a lot of wikipedia family sites. According to the SUL, and after comparaison with the automatic approval policy, I should request the flag on the following wikis :
  • request since more than a week : afwiki, bawiki, bmwiki, bpywiki, diqwiki, fowiki, frpwiki, iuwiki, newwiki,
    Should I create immediately all these requests on Steward_requests/Bot_status#Bot_status_requests or the automatic approval is done by someone ?
  • test launch on September 25 : cbk-zamwiki, cdowiki, chwiki, crhwiki, csbwiki, dsbwiki, iuwiki, eewiki, furwiki, ganwiki, guwiki, gvwiki, hawwiki, hiwiki, ifwiki, hsbwiki, iewiki, igwiki, ilowiki, iowiki, jbowiki, kaawiki, klwiki, knwiki, kwwiki, kywiki, ladwiki, lmowiki, lnwiki, map-bmswiki, mdfwiki, mgwiki, mnwiki, myvwiki, nahwiki, nawiki, novwiki, nvwiki, omwiki, oswiki, pawiki, papwiki, pdcwiki, pswiki, rmywiki, rmwiki, roa-tarawiki, sahwiki, sawiki, sdwiki, siwiki, skwiki, smwiki, sowiki, swwiki, tetwiki, tiwiki, tnwiki, towiki, tswiki, uzwiki, wawiki, wuuwiki, xalwiki, yiwiki, yowiki
    I should wait a couple of days...
Sorry for disturbing... --Gdgourou 22:53, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
I think I understood something... the global bot status isn't shown on SUL... it take only into account the local bot status... Will be something in the future to show the automatically approved local status 'cause of global status with the SUL ? --Gdgourou 22:57, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
In consequence I should bother anyone anymore for the wiki listed above ... That's right ? I ask you because I disappointed with empty cells of the column Status on the SUL page... ;) --Gdgourou 23:07, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
Which page are you referring to when you say "on SUL"? Do you mean vvv's SUL util, or Special:CentralAuth, or another page? —{admin} Pathoschild 00:55:21, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
I referring to the SUL util (column Flags of the table). --Gdgourou 10:03, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
That column is for local groups; the global groups are listed in the box at the top. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:32:58, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
Has a request been made to developers to create a local status named global bot ? ... It's only to avoid these empty cells on SUL util... ;-). Sincerely --Gdgourou 08:40, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

more zh wikinews cleanup

[10] John Vandenberg 15:02, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Done. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:43:57, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on ia.wikipedia

Dear Pathoschild, ia.wikipedia has agreed to introduce standard bot policy, including global bots. Regards, --Julian 16:48, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, I enabled it yesterday. —{admin} Pathoschild 20:02:18, 06 October 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on fawiki

I have aded Persian Wikipedia to the list of Wikipedias which support use of Global Bots. The intent is that people can request for bot permission on Meta (instead of locally) as long as it is an interwiki (or any other type that meets the Global Bot policy). Huji 15:55, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, enabled. —Pathoschild 22:41:40, 06 October 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on gotwiki proposed

Pathoschild, I've proposed the Standard Bot Policy in the Gothic Wikipedia. I may forget about this in a week, when it's time to implement it, so here's a reminder for you :). Cheers, Malafaya 10:32, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

One question: what happens with global bots in wikis that have just implemented the standard policy (namely the global bots part)? Do they get immediately flagged in that wiki? Malafaya 10:47, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

I added it to my discussion watchlist, so I'll take care of it if you forget.
Global bots get access instantly when the wiki is added to the "Global bots wikis" set (see list and rights, log). I normally update the wiki set within a few hours of implementation.
Pathoschild 11:31:25, 09 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for your answers. That reminds me that whenever I implement the bot policy in a wiki, I never alert you for that fact and it looks to me now as a need since you have to update the wikis set (something I was not aware of). Sorry. Malafaya 22:23, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
That is fine. There is no need to notify me separately if you list them on Bot policy/Implementation or {{bot policy}}, since they are on my watchlist. —Pathoschild 00:41:28, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Global Bot Flag for DragonBot

Would appreciate if you could look at Steward_requests/Bot_status#Global_bot_status_for_DragonBot. --Jacob 14:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Please wait a few days to allow comment. —Pathoschild 15:56:43, 09 October 2008 (UTC)
Eight days since request. Bot has flag in all the largest 34 wikis (in terms of number of pages) and in all wikis where it applied for bot flag (60+). Please take a look... --Jacob 22:51, 15 October 2008 (UTC)
It's friday :) --Jacob 06:26, 17 October 2008 (UTC)
But not yet Friday afternoon. ;) —Pathoschild 06:32:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Globat bot @ hewiki

Hi, I had suggested accepting global bots in the Hebrew Wikipedia and received support [11] (currently the last topic). Note that automatic approval is not accepted. Can you implement this? I think we should be added to the small list after the table in Bot_policy/Implementation#Where_it_is_policy. Thanks, Yonidebest 20:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 23:47:36, 10 October 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on fowiki

Hi Pathoschild,

does the new bot policy mean that we can redirect bot request to some other page? (this would be nice, for our small language) best regards Quackor 09:33, 12 October 2008 (UTC) @ fowiki

Hello Quackor. Yes, you can redirect bot requests to any page you choose; just update fo:Project:Bot policy to point to the correct page. —Pathoschild 10:36:54, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
But is there no default page for this? At for example en.wp. who can handle bot status for all pages. Quackor 11:42, 15 October 2008 (UTC) @ fowiki
No, but some wikis ask that bot operators place their requests on another wiki (usually the largest wiki in that language). The English Wikipedia would be a bad choice for this, given their very strict rules and procedures for bots. I'm also not sure their bot approvals group would agree to decide bot requests on another wiki. —Pathoschild 02:28:58, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Globat bot @ bewiki

Hi, the suggestion to accept global bots in Belarusian Wikipedia has got support[12]. Can you implement this? Thanks, MaximLitvin 20:13, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 22:05:45, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Rights testing

Do you intend to revert right tests you made 11 days ago? Majorly talk 00:29, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 00:30:59, 22 October 2008 (UTC)
Thanks. Majorly talk 00:31, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on kab.wiki, km.wiki and ku.wiki

Hello Pathoschild, kab.wiki, km.wiki and ku.wiki did not object the bot policy proposal. Regards, --Julian 21:52, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

I enabled global bots on those wikis. —Pathoschild 22:46:06, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Global bot policy on ko.Wikisource

Yesterday, I added the Korean Wikisource at approval of global bot policy list. So, I hope - Please set the Korean Wikisource as approval of global bot policy wiki. --Albamhandae 07:10, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 15:35:05, 07 November 2008 (UTC)

Bot policy on nrm.wiki and roa-rup.wiki

Hello Pathoschild, nrm.wiki and roa-rup.wiki did not object the bot policy proposal. Regards, --Julian 17:14, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Updated. —Pathoschild 23:38:05, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

Global bots on Simple English Wiktionary

As per the (lack of) discussion on the Simple English Wiktionary, please implement global bots there.--Brett 13:21, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Standard bot policy on tg.wiki

Hello Pathoschild, tg.wiki already operates the standard bot policy. Regards, --Julian 15:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, implemented. —Pathoschild 08:14:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Disable global bots on wuuwiki

The following discussion is marked as answered (done). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.


6 months ago we accepted global bots because our bureaucrat was quite never available. Now we are 2 bureaucrats and have time to manage the bot status.

Then I'd like the global bots are no more allowed on wuu wikipedia. Can you do what is needed on meta?

I gave the bot flag to all the global bots that were already active there, as they meet for automatic approval.

You can see there the message where I decided it (global bots were agreed only by me (see #Global bot on wuu wikipedia)


--Hercule (admin and bureaucrat of wu wikipedia) 13:47, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 14:05:47, 05 January 2009 (UTC)
Merci --Hercule 14:20, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Global bots on LI wiki

The following discussion is marked as answered (done). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, global bots and automatic approval was approved on LI wiki. Can you please implement it? - Pahles 07:48, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 18:51:37, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Thanks! - Pahles 18:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

global bots on la.wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered (done). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello Pathoschild, la.wikipedia has decided to allow global bots, but otherwise not to use the standard bot policy (la:Vicipaedia:Taberna#Global bots - allow them automatically?). Can you please effect this change? Thank you! --UV 22:18, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Done. —Pathoschild 19:32:50, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Thank you! --UV 20:08, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Mad Nick

The following discussion is marked as answered (unblocked). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Ciao sono l'utente Mad Nick presente su varie Wikipedia, volevo sapere perche hai bloccato il mio IP su tutte le wiki?

Hello, I'm user Mad Nick what you are found in various Wikipedia, I would like to know why you have locked my IP on each page? Sorry for my bad english..

--Mad Nick 14:32, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello Mad Nick. I have lifted the block, although we may need to block it again later. I apologize for the inconvenience. It was blocked to stop a crosswiki attack that involved registering abusive user names that attack users or contain their personal information, propagating them to logs on multiple wikis, and sometimes performing edit vandalism such as abusive page moves or page blanking. —Pathoschild 19:43:03, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Wide range block

The following discussion is marked as answered (unblocked). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello, Pathoschild. The board of Wikimedia CZ received an e-mail complaining about your soft block - "Crosswiki attacks, possible web proxy". The user says: "I was quite surprised because I don't use any proxy, just public and permanent IP and I didn't try any cross wiki attacks at all." Please, could you narrow the block or release it? The range is quite large. Thank you. --egg 18:14, 16 January 2009 (UTC)

Hello egg. I've released the block, although we may need to block it again in the future. If we do need to do so, I'll try experimenting with small subranges, and see if the abusive person is limited to a subrange. I apologize for the inconvenience.
If you're curious, it was blocked to stop a crosswiki attack that involved registering abusive user names that attack users or contain their personal information, propagating them to logs on multiple wikis, and sometimes performing edit vandalism such as abusive page moves or page blanking. —Pathoschild 00:02:24, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Global bots enabled on svwiki?

The following discussion is marked as answered (already enabled). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi! We recently opted in to use global bots on svwiki (through User:Laaknor) and I was wondering if this is now fully enabled so I can suggest to applicants to apply for global bot status for running iw-bots on svwiki? Njaelkies Lea 16:42, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

It was fully enabled within hours of me announcing it as reported into meta. So you should absolutly start suggesting it to new botrunners ;) Laaknor 17:23, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, ok, I have started suggesting they apply for global status. I'm asking though because I was looking at Jotterbot which according to this has global bot status, yet edits are not marked as bot edits. I'm probably misunderstanding something but please explain to me. :) Njaelkies Lea 19:01, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I put the last edit of Jotterbot on my watchlist, and "view botedits", and it shows up with a b for botedit, so it is marked as botedits... Laaknor 19:27, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
I see my mistake now, thank you for your time. :) Njaelkies Lea 19:30, 21 January 2009 (UTC)


Open proxy??

The following discussion is marked as answered (no response from user). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

My IP address has been blocked from editing wikipedia articles because it is an "open proxy". I find the open proxy pages explanation pages difficult to understand. Is it possible that my Ip address has been blocked due to the creation of more than one user profiles from it? I have never vandalized and have only done postive constructive acticities on wikipedia and have started an article as well... so how come my actions have ended up warranting a block?Leif edling 16:49, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Leif edling. When you try to edit, you should see an error message. Please copy the text that appears in the box at the top, which provides the information I need to look into the block. —{admin} Pathoschild 19:28:46, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Articles on R dawkins and the god delusion

The following discussion is marked as answered (see dispute resolution process). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Pathoschild Good day

I have tried to enter the following coment both on Richard Dawkins' page and The god delusion page , but people keep on changing it affirming it is irrelevant .

However I am not professing any religious view , just pointing out the fact that his observations have a fundamental epistemological flaw , I am trying to add more ideas but people seem to be very fanatical about his own scientific theories , as any other person could be fanatical for any theory either religious or scientific . The change I was trying to do is : The philosopher Leonardo Boff has criticized such atheistic views stating that : all of these questionings spring from a fundamental epistemological mistake which is to seek to place God and religion in the ambit of reason. http://www.leonardoboff.com/site-eng/vista/2007/dec07.htm . I am a student of Philosophy at MacQuairie University and think that ideas that discuss theories have to be under the scrutinity of basic philosophical argument, hence my reason of putting in Boff' s comments as a counterpoint , I don not want to be dismissed by words such as irrelevant or else that betray the unwillingness of the author to those who oppose their monolithic views.

If you go to the page you will see I had put the references fror his articles but another user had it changing excusing it as a blog as well when it is not . The author is a scholar and the article belongs to his website and has been published in books and newspapers in Portuguese.

Thanks for all help

Ger ***

Hello Ger ***. Please see Wikipedia:Dispute resolution for guidance on resolving this dispute. —{admin} Pathoschild 13:40:06, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Accounts by Multiple Users

For what particular reason are accounts from multiple users blocked-particularly on English Wikipedia (the Taste of Home Editors, Marthaerin1812 and MDCCCXLVIII as examples of accounts operated by multiple users)? Secondly, while editing the Meta Wikimedia Project, let alone English Wikipedia, should editors never share their computer while they are creating edits (Wikipedia does not mention clear policies on sharing the computer with others while editing things or articles)?

UW-La Crosse Editors 03:16, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello. That policy applies on the English Wikipedia, but many other wikis do not have an equivalent restriction. Try asking on w:Wikipedia talk:Username policy for a more definitive answer, since I do not know the rationale myself. —Pathoschild 06:12:38, 04 December 2008 (UTC)

Canvassing about Mardetanha

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello Alefbe. A few users have complained that you are canvassing to oppose Mardetanha's steward election. (Canvassing means to systematically confront persons to try to convince them to vote like you.) Canvassing is strongly discouraged, and continuing to do so may lead to your block on this wiki and possibly others. Please respect the voting process and do not canvass. :) —Pathoschild 05:38:17, 02 February 2009 (UTC)
I sent some emails in the first hours of election to some stewards of Metawiki (to give them some basic information), as well as some users of Persian Wikipedia (who knew Mardetanha, but didn't know about this election). Then spacebirdy told me that this is considered canvassing and I shouldn't continue it on Meta, and I didn't send any other email related to this issue on Meta or Persian Wikipedia (other than answering to some questions). I guess you can also look at the detail of my conversation with spacebirdy (she has my permission to send it to anyone she likes). Alefbe 06:04, 2 February 2009 (UTC)


I saw comment about canvassing and I won't send any email related to this election, other than answering questions of other users and replying their emails (Indeed, I stopped it after conversation with Spacebirdy and seeing her comment). I have a question: I want to file an RfC about Martanha's sysop-power abuse in Persian Wikipedia (FaWiki doesn't have an arbitration committe and I guess it's the duty of Meta to deal with this issue). Can I start filing this RfC this week? Or I need to wait after the election? Alefbe 06:18, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Such an RFC should be held on fa-Wikipedia, unless there are specific reasons why this is not possible. —Pathoschild 04:10:32, 03 February 2009 (UTC)

About your comment on canvassing, I have a question. Do you also consider Commenting related comments and off-Meta conversations canvassing? Or it's ok if I put a comment for related comments of others (against my claims). Alefbe 03:26, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Another question sent through email. Alefbe 19:41, 3 February 2009 (UTC)


Translation/Translation requests/WMF/Our projects (nl)

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild,

(Copy from Aphaia's Talk Page)

I made a beta version in Dutch and added an extra category to mark it as translated.
I guess a better way is to use another template so it comes in the category for proofread/correction or whatever.
Can you explain me how, please? Templates are one of my weakest points unfortunately, I'm happy that I can read them ;-).
Greetings and thanks in advance, your would-be translator Patio 13:21, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi Patio,
You can change the status at the template put on the top of Translation requests/WMF/Our projects/nl, now there Dutch version is indicated as "nl /Nederlands (needs updating)". Since the current "beta" version seems not to be updated yet, it would be better for us not to call it "translated" or "proofreading", since it needs more update & translation in my opinion.
If you would like to merge your user subpage version and the current one, please let me or any other meta admins know that.
If you have further questions about this "status" template, ask User:Pathoschild for information (He created it so has the best knowledge). Cheers,--Aphaia 13:50, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

(end Copy)

Updated en removed extra Category as per Aphaia's request. How to change status to 'proofread' or something when applicable?
Thanks in advance for an answer Patio 10:58, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Patio. Sorry for the delay in responding. You can do it by editing Template:Translation/Translation requests/WMF/Our projects. In the edit box, there is this line: " |nl |needs updating". Simply change "needs updating" to "done" (or one of the other statuses listed at the top of the edit box). —{admin} Pathoschild 19:12:46, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Thank you. I used "Proofreading". Some feedback of colleagues is always handy. Patio 09:09, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Notes for you

The following discussion is marked as answered (done). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

af:Gebruikerbespreking:Alias#Renaming, af:Special:Contributions/Daniel. Cheers, :) Daniel (talk) 08:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Done (better late than never...). —Pathoschild 17:01:44, 01 December 2008 (UTC)

email ping...

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Ping. (thank you) :) --Emesee 05:25, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Response ping. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 05:30:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Babel templates vs Babel extension

The following discussion is marked as answered (babel extension will not be merged with user language system). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Working on the translations to the Babel extension over at translatewiki I had a strange feeling of déjà-vu, then remembered fixing the translations of your templates here (Irish is still on your list, but it's done BTW). What I'm wondering is, are you aware of the extension and is there any effort to co-ordinate or merge the two? I notice that the extension seems to have an extra level (professional) in addition to the 6 used here. That's a word that's hard to translate as I don't really know what's meant by it!  ? Moilleadóir ? 22:04, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

The babel extension was developed separately from the {{user language}} system. It's based on the system used by the English Wikipedia and has only vague definitions of each level (the {{user language}} system is based on crosswiki discussion and statistics, and has specific definitions). The author has already indicated he has no interest in changing it to merge the systems. —{admin} Pathoschild 03:52:45, 09 June 2008 (UTC)
Ah, that's a pity.  ? Moilleadóir ? 21:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.


My english is not so well but i will try anyway. I was so free to steal your userpage en translate it in dutch (my country). I liked it so much i want to use it for my own :)


Sterkebak 14:37, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

That's fine. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 04:05:30, 10 June 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.
A lot of work done, especially since Anthere commented in detail which was very helpful. Take a look - I'll pick up comments off IRC later today if we miss each other. FT2 (Talk | email) 14:07, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Logo for ext wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi Pathoschild! I don't know the person i have to talk with, but well... i hope you could help me. We have uploaded a logo for the extremaduran wikipedia at ext:Image:Wiki.png, and i've asked for the change here, but there is a warning that says that configuration changes on the wikis should be requested in a central place by filing a note in our bugzilla, and i don't know how to do that... could you help me? Greetings! Better 14:21, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hello Better. To file a request to change the logo:
  1. click this link to auto-start a ticket (register an account or log in if necessary);
  2. review the form and link to a discussion if there was one;
  3. click "Commit".
{admin} Pathoschild 21:41:41, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
Done. Thank you very much! Better 08:25, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

OTRS permissions

The following discussion is marked as answered ('kay.). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hey Pathos.

Fecal storm on commons, see OTRS ticket. Apparently numerous images uploaded without permission/source from the actual photographers. Ugh. Thought you should know. ~Kylu (u|t) 05:32, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:17:05, 02 July 2008 (UTC)

LINK FA inflation on Lombard wikipedia

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Sorry for writing in english, neither my italian nor my lombard are good enough to communicate my point. There is a problem in the quality of the featured articles here in the lombaard wikipedia. I would not care, if this problem did not spill over to the german wikipedia: There is a Bot, called LinkFA-Bot, setting star-links in the interwiki menu to featured articles in other languages. However, entering such a «featured article» often reveals a stub or an otherwise very unpolished and imperfect article, leading to the frustration of the users.

The user behind LinkFA-Bot takes a formalistic stance: Every wikipedia decides on their own what articles to feature and the bot automatically assigns the stars. Thus my request: Check all featured articles and unfeature the unworthy.

See also: Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Lombard Wikipedia (in englisch), de:Benutzer Diskussion:Guandalug (the person behind LinkFA-Bot, Discussion in german, I can provide an english translation if needed) 17:51, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Hello 134. I do not know why you are proposing this on my talk page. I suggest discussing this with the Lombard Wikipedia community instead. —{admin} Pathoschild 14:54:23, 08 July 2008 (UTC)

:Template:User classes

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

You'd previously removed the "developers" global right from the template. We've got a RfC at Requests_for_comments/Special_global_permissions regarding creation of a "Sysadmin" global right (separate from the Steward global, but otherwise identical, for both transparency and clarity reasons).

I'd like your opinion on both the proposed right at the RfC and if it may/might be applicable to the User classes template as a (proposed). Thanks! Kylu 21:27, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Existing groups should be linked from the template, but I don't think we should add proposed groups to it. I'm not sure the proposed 'sysadmin' group is useful (per Simetrical's comment and because sysadmins could use the steward group in the same way), but neither would it be bad. —{admin} Pathoschild 18:37:22, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Channel #cvn-wp-ar

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Could you setup the channel please?--Alnokta 17:05, 3 August 2008 (UTC) Hello?--Alnokta 17:53, 5 August 2008 (UTC)

Done. I'll try to get a bot into that channel; see #countervandalism on IRC if you have questions. —{admin} Pathoschild 17:53:32, 05 August 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi, I would like to help out at open proxies, I am requesting that "Verify" me as a user. My main account is en:user:Prom3th3an Thanks Prom3th3an 03:54, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Participating in the Meta project primarily requires adminship here or on several wikis, and it will soon be obsoleted by ProxyDB. You could help on w:Wikipedia:WikiProject on open proxies, though; you can ask to be verified on the talk page. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:31:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

[13]. I was fixing some vandalism, and must have accidentally erased the whole section. Thanks for ramifying this. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 14:53, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. —{admin} Pathoschild 13:38:11, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Besoin d'aide sur le wiktionnaire malgache

Je sollicite tous les Utilisateur du Wiktionnaire Malgache afin que la communauté ne soit pas muette et que chacun exprime sa voix : Une décision doit être prise par la communauté de mg.wiktionary (7 personnes en tout !! :(( ) pour savoir qui est pour ou contre l'adminiship de Jagwar (qui est en fait moi-même) ; s'il vous plaît, répondez-moi dans un délai de 30 jours. unsigned by Jagwar on 10:21, 27 December 2008.

Je ne suis pas membre de cette communauté. —Pathoschild 19:33:24, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

(CVN) Local operator request

The following discussion is marked as answered (done). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.
simple:User:SwirlBoy39 wants local ops in #cvn-simplewikis. I told him I'd rather some of the other staff gave some input on the matter first. Kylu 03:55, 9 January 2009 (UTC)


The following discussion is marked as answered (fixed). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

That's not something to fix... it's supposed to be the category/page names that are on Wikimedia Foundationwiki. Cbrown1023 talk 00:31, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that; when I noticed they were common on translation subpages, I subcategorized their category pages instead. Feel free to revert me on those translation subpages I edited, or I'll fix them when I'm done. —Pathoschild 00:34:25, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Done, thanks for doing this category cleanup though. Cbrown1023 talk 00:37, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

re: Link accounts together

The following discussion is marked as answered. If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hello Pasquale. Please access w:Special:MergeAccount to link your accounts together, so that we can verify that your en-Wikipedia account is linked with this Meta account. Thanks. —Pathoschild 01:39:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip about linking accounts together!--Pasquale 17:48, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

How to identify to Wikimedia

The following discussion is marked as answered (see explanation template). If you have a new comment, add it just below the box.

Hi there. Could you explain to me how to identify to the WMF? Thanks, Razorflame 20:21, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Hello Razorflame. There is a template explanation at Steward handbook/email templates. Let me know if you have any questions. —Pathoschild 20:44:28, 03 February 2009 (UTC)
Ok, thanks for the help. Cheers, Razorflame 20:48, 3 February 2009 (UTC)



Thank you very much for this arrangement about of Ottoman Turkish Wikipedia

--Tarih 03:36, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. —Pathoschild 04:11:50, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Hello Pathoschild,

This page [14] doesn't show all changes about of Ottoman Turkish Wikipedia. I think It doesn't show new pages about of Ottoman Turkish Wikipedia.

--Tarih 20:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Hello, it only shows changes to pages created as of the last update. I've clarified that on the page. —Pathoschild 17:44:34, 21 October 2007 (UTC)


Was it really needed? All that work? I didn't expect so many pages! I think I've forgot to count a few :) --Ooswesthoesbes 17:17, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

I use a script I'm writing to generate most of the information on the status page. :) —Pathoschild 17:26:44, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Oh yes, domme mich (idiot me)! I forgot that is possible! --Ooswesthoesbes 17:29, 18 October 2007 (UTC)


Could we start with a Wiktionary as first project and later on create a Wikipedia? SF-Language 06:32, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes. —Pathoschild 06:33:30, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
How necessary is it to create the interface if we have 0 natives? SF-Language 06:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
It is necessary before the wiki is created, since we want to encourage users (particularly natives) to join the community and facilitate their editing. However, the administrator interface and several other messages can be left untranslated for the first project (see a list of optional message). —Pathoschild 06:38:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Okay. SF-Language 06:40, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Where can I find the number of already translated messages? --Ooswesthoesbes 18:24, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

mw:Localisation statistics (of all languages). SPQRobin 19:12, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Danke! Dat is 25%, det geit rap! --Ooswesthoesbes 06:40, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Niet te snel juichen hoor :-) Also extensions! SPQRobin 14:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but there stays: 437/1718. :) det geit rap! --Ooswesthoesbes 14:50, 11 December 2007 (UTC)


This test project currently requires more active editors.

Is it an additional requirement/criterion? So, the number of articles does not matter? --Kologsugmak 00:42, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
The number of articles in itself does not matter; what is important is that the community be persistently diverse and active. With too few editors, there is the possibility that the wiki will become inactive after it is approved. This is not a formal criteria, but only one of many factors taken into consideration before final approval is given. —Pathoschild 03:27:20, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Noted --Alimbosogon 06:44, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
How few is few? -- 06:48, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
4 active users. Did I made 21 edits? I don't speak 1 word bikol! SF-Language 07:15, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
4 is not bad. Note that when that was written there was only one. —Pathoschild 07:20:05, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

It is harder to create or edit in incubator. For instance, a prefix is needed everytime you create a link, you cannot upload images etc. --Bikolwiki 06:56, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Use something like template:wt/loz/easylink, template:wt/loz/doublelink, template:wt/loz/cat etc. SF-Language 07:01, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Please define the following terms: editor, diverse, active, inactive. What are the formal/official/definite criteria for final approval?--Bikolwiki 06:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

The formal, official, and definite criteria are listed and explained at m:Meta:Language proposal policy. This page is unofficial, as explained at the top of the page. —Pathoschild 07:10:45, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I see. This is a personal page. --Bikolwiki 07:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Have you found a third party who will confirm the language used in our project? It has been more than a week since it was announced that Bikol Wikipedia would be created. --Bikolwiki 07:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

See the archived discussion, which is usually within 24 hours of current. —Pathoschild 07:21:58, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

"This test project is currently successful."

Currently? What does this mean? --Kologsugmak 16:00, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

'Currently successful' means successful as of the date these statistics were compiled. —Pathoschild 17:18:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
It's funny that the language committee is having a hard time (that's 17 days and counting) finding a third party who can confirm whether the language used in our project is Bikol or not. It only took us (me and Steve) a month or less to translate the interface! If you noticed, he has stopped editing and creating articles too. Look at Hiligaynon and Kinaray-A projects. The proposers have lost their interest. So, the language committee need 24 hours just to approve the project? That's even funnier. 24-hour countdown starts when, 18:25 of 24 October 2007 or 12:15 of 25 October 2007? Anyway, Martin, I really appreciate your effort. Keep up the good work. --Filipinayzd 17:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your good work too. It will be approved (assuming no objections) around 07h UTC or the the morning after (since that is very late in my time zone). —Pathoschild 18:01:43, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Hi Pathoschild! Can you please explain where you got the edit count (per user) from? You have me down as having done only 12 edits!! I'm sure Filipinayzd can confirm that this is wrong - the last time I checked it was at least 280 edits - if not more... don't worry, I haven't lost interest, I've just been busy but am back in business. --Steven*fung 20:28, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but it's over the last month, excluded categories, pages outside wp/bcl and templates. --Ooswesthoesbes 20:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, the edit count is to article pages in the wp/bcl space within the last month only. My script calculates this from Special:Recentchangeslink. —Pathoschild 21:47:37, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
It is past 07h UTC already. --Jose77 08:20, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
It's 10 37 in Limburg. He said it could get later because of the time zone, he may be sleeping at this moment... --Ooswesthoesbes 08:26, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
What timezome is UTC? You should not put deadline if you cannot do it. --Filipinayzd 13:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Where are you now, the filipins? UTC is 2 hours earlier than Central European Time. Wait a sec... --Ooswesthoesbes 13:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes. Are you from the Neverlands? --Filipinayzd 13:38, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes I'm from Mofert. UTC is 9 hours earlier than the time on the filipins. --Ooswesthoesbes 13:41, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I see. You must be in the Very Far Far East. --Filipinayzd 13:44, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Or west... Looking to my world map you're in the east... --Ooswesthoesbes 13:47, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Hopefully they will keep their promise this time! --Jose77 09:49, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Please note it's final approval, it'll still take a few days for the devolepers to really create the wikipedia... I'm waiting almost 2 days on the creation of the limburgish wikiquote... --Ooswesthoesbes 13:09, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Did they also give you "deadline"? --Filipinayzd 13:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
yes, 4 days after I ask when it would be approved. --Ooswesthoesbes 13:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Bikol Wikipedia is going to be created around the morning of 26 October 2007 (UTC time) at bcl.wikipedia.org, It is Official. Can you tell me what time and date is it now? --Filipinayzd 13:16, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
It can't be created if it isn't approved. Currently it's just conditionally approved. The real approval will be 'today morning' (which was a few hours ago) --Ooswesthoesbes 13:21, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I thought only underdeveloped babies are incubated. Our project is like a toddler now. --Filipinayzd 14:17, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

The language subcommittee has approved the Bikol Wikipedia and notified the Board of Trustees. If the board does not object within four days (and they almost certainly won't), it will be approved and the developers will be asked to create it. —Pathoschild 16:47:59, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Did Eloquence (Erik Möller) board Executive Secretary (26 October 2007 13:59) object or not? How many (Earth) days the developers need to create it? Have they been informed? --Filipinayzd 10:58, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
See my previous comment: "within four days"; this will take four days before it is approved. How long it takes the developers to do it is up to them, but I regularly remind them of the pending wiki until they do it. Usually it takes less than a week. Unfortunately, these delays are outside our control. —Pathoschild 18:50:55, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Ehem. —unsigned by Filipinayzd 12:26, 1 November 2007

Cough. —Pathoschild 14:02:13, 01 November 2007 (UTC)
Kindly remind the developers. Thank you. —unsigned by Filipinayzd 14:37, 7 November 2007
I do so routinely; you can help yourself by joining #wikimedia-tech. See the approval schedule for relevant requests. —Pathoschild 13:34:25, 07 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. --Filipinayzd 13:31, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. —Pathoschild 19:53:25, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Any luck? -Filipinayzd 20:12, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
The developer who typically does it now creates wikis in batches; it is a time-consuming process, but creating several wikis at once doesn't take longer than creating them one at a time. If you'd like to help, join #wikimedia-tech and remind the developers now and then (see the schedule of pending wikis). —Pathoschild 22:35:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't have an irc. --Filipinayzd 07:03, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
There's a web-based client available, with instructions on that page. Feel free to ask me if you need help figuring it out. —Pathoschild 08:17:56, 17 November 2007 (UTC)


Templates Template:Wp/crh/templatename should also be included. Alessandro 20:39, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll change the script to include them, so they'll be added to the status page next time the statistics are updated. —Pathoschild 21:10:51, 26 October 2007 (UTC)


The templates shouldn't be forgotten: [15].Benoni}} 19:15, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

This page shows article count, redirects are striked because they're no real articles. Templates and categories are no real articles too, so it isn't important to show them. --Ooswesthoesbes 19:36, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't think so: templates are very important for the sophistication and above all attractiveness of a wiki.Benoni 22:02, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
The script has already been changed to check for templates, so the templates will be included next time the statistics are updated. —Pathoschild 22:17:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Greek Wikiversity

What should we do to open the greek WV? Please answer to my talk page.Thanks --Diaza or ZaDiak 22:58, 27 October 2007

Hello Diaza. User:Pathoschild/Status/wv-el shows the progress of the Greek Wikiversity request. The last requirement left to meet is a more active test project (see activity statistics). Since you asked this question as an IP address, I cannot answer on your talk page because your IP address may change before you see it. —Pathoschild 18:11:53, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

OK thank you very much.

Moving your subpages to the Incubator namespace?

Hello Pathoschild. I think your subpages (User:Pathoschild/Status) should be moved to Incubator:Status, because it is an official analysis (as I can see on m:RFL#Open).

SPQRobin 14:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Hello SPQRobin. The status pages will probably be moved to the subcommittee pages on Meta when the new script is completed, since it no longer depends on Special:Recentchangeslinked. They're somewhat semi-official, being performed by a member of the subcommittee for use in decisions, but not necessarily reflecting subcommittee decisions. If you think it would be helpful to have them at Incubator:Status instead, that is fine; it is likely that the script will be public-access soon, so it might encourage users to publicly post the results. —Pathoschild 17:55:05, 12 December 2007 (UTC)


Sock tags

Is there a preferred way to tag socks? I know that the different templates have their different applications based on confirmed, suspected, etc. but more specifically:

1) Should a tag be place on both the user page and the usertalk page?

2) If yes, should the tags be different (I think that {{SockBlock}} doesn't add a cat, but I'm not sure - wondering if that should go on the talk page so as to avoid adding both the user page and the usertalk page to the cat)?

3) Should the talk page generally be blanked except for the tag as with indef blocked users?

4) Additionally, the template documentation doesn't suggest the tags are subst as other blocking tags are, shouldn't they be? Thanks.--Doug.(talk contribs) 01:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

An additional thought: I've seen some people tag both pages and others move a tag from the talk page to the userpage, would it make any sense to redirect the talk page to the userpage for confirmed socks? Particularly in cases where the talk page gets locked too? Thanks.--Doug.(talk contribs) 01:42, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Only one page should be tagged, to avoid redundant categorization. They're conventionally placed on the user page, since it fits that namespace's purpose (user is for describing users, user talk is for communicating with them), but it doesn't really matter which is used. I generally blank and redirect their user talk pages based on the idea of denying recognition and dissuading reputation, unless they contain important information we can't link to from the user page. —{admin} Pathoschild 05:32:01, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Deleted sock talk pages, should these be restored or ignored?

More questions, the following threads refer to deletions of user talk pages for various socks of User:EddieSegoura. I've questioned the deletions and got a mildly "keep deleted" response from one of the deleting admins and a I thought this is how we did it from another. My thinking is that all of these should be restored based on what little I know of socks and all that I've had to learn about CAT:TEMP. But, these are all very experienced admins, so I thought I'd better ask for further guidance - rather than taking users up on "restore if you want feel strongly about it" type responses. Here are the relevant threads:

User talk:MZMcBride#Deleted_temporary_userpage

User talk:PhilKnight#Indef_tag_for_sock_talks

User talk:Misza13#Deletion_of_sock_usertalk_page - no response yet

Thanks.--Doug.(talk contribs) 02:48, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

We track sock puppets' user pages so we can easily find information for them, see user name patterns, and find material for checkuser. If their talk page doesn't provide any useful information, there's no need to keep it if the user page is already categorized. I usually redirect the talk page instead of deleting it, but deletion should be okay too. —{admin} Pathoschild 05:20:47, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
But deletion deprives non-admins of the information and makes it awkward to obtain for admins (no advancing between diffs, etc). Anyway, thanks for the advice; I'll let these lie and apply this process of blank and redirect the usertalk to the tagged userpage in the future myself.--Doug.(talk contribs) 07:06, 24 April 2008 (UTC)
I do agree though that If their talk page doesn't provide any useful information there is no point to restoring it (not much point to deleting it either to begin with). BTW, it seems this practice should be set down somewhere, maybe at WP:UW or some such place as a sort of best practice. I couldn't find any info on this which is why I came asking. Even the practice of posting block tags and blanking pages of indef blocked users is not set out anywhere except in a single paragraph at WP:UW that I can find. If you know of other resources, please let me know. Thanks for all the help.--Doug.(talk contribs) 19:54, 24 April 2008 (UTC)


Hi Pathoschild, thanks for your help/advice on the user page issue. Oh yeah, and thanks for cleaning up my page! ;) --BelovedFreak 18:00, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of :Template:Indefblockedip

Template:Indefblockedip has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. MBisanz talk 00:26, 21 June 2008 (UTC)


You have email!¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 21:58, 30 June 2008 (UTC)


Hi Pathoschild - you probably don't remember this, but around Feb. 2007, you deleted the user page for User:Pce3@ij.net due to the fact that he was (and remains to be) an infinitely blocked user. If it is not too much trouble, I was wondering if you can check for me why this particular user was blocked - I have reasons to believe that User:Pce3@ij.net have since created three other accounts:

Which might have some potential issues related to the contribution of a completely nonsense/false/hoax article titled optimal classification. Coincidentally, Pce3@ij.net has a history of such contributions at Wikia here.

Oh, and if you do look into this, please reply here instead of on my talk page). Thanks! --Jiuguang (talk) 04:11, 24 July 2008 (UTC)
As a follow up, another editor who was involved with Pce3 in the past has given me some comments regarding this user. I have since taken the article to AfD - Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Optimal classification, and would appreciate your comments there. --Jiuguang (talk) 11:16, 24 July 2008 (UTC)

Moksha Wikipedia--Global bots

Hello, Pathoschild. You placed info on using Global bots in Moksha Wikipedia. Thank you.

  • No objections to Global bots. --Numulunj pilgae 14:08, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Username Usurption: "A"

Hi! I wish to usurp the user, A, who hasn't made any contributions or edits for a while .. can you help me? Thanks! Sυρєrıor (Reply!,Contribs) 19:12, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

No, but I see you've already added requests on the correct page. —{admin} Pathoschild 02:57:15, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikimedia Board Elections

I would like to ask some questions about the costs for the latest elections to the Board of Trustees of the Wikimedia Foundation: How much did the WMF pay to the SPI for conducting the Board elections? How much did the latest Board elections actually cost? How much would it cost if Wikipedia's ArbCom elections were conducted by SPI? CataTony 10:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Our own developers created the election software, SPI provided hosting and operation free of charge, and the elections had no other direct cost. However, SPI is geared towards providing service to non-profit organizations; I'm not sure they'd be willing to do the same for a group of users on one wiki. If you're not concerned about possible manipulation by Wikimedia developers, it would be better to run the same BoardVote extension on the arbitration committee wiki. —{admin} Pathoschild 16:10:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Discussion on AN/I

I thought you might be interested in this discussion. Jayjg (talk) 03:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not, but thank you for notifying me. —{admin} Pathoschild 03:27:34, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

TfD nomination of :Template:Commons-inline

Template:Commons-inline has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. OhanaUnitedTalk page 12:42, 8 October 2008 (UTC)

And also {{Wikibooks-inline}} & {{Wikiquote-inline}} & {{Wikisource-inline}} OhanaUnitedTalk page 12:45, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for letting me know. I have no comment. —{admin} Pathoschild 18:40:07, 08 October 2008 (UTC)

Block of Mermaid from the Baltic Sea

Hello. I've never heard of you until today. I also never heard of Mermaid from the Baltic Sea, whom you blocked and later unblocked. Is there a group of people named "mermaid" who are bad? I saw a welcome message left by Mermaid from the Baltic Sea. Chergles (talk) 18:12, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Hello Chergles. Mermaid from the Baltic Sea was created at the same time as a series of blocked accounts including MisterMZM, 28014015575516, Barry Baker, Your Sham Marriage, and Here's Bobby. That block was over two years ago, so I don't remember the particular pattern that led to these blocks. —{admin} Pathoschild 20:08:33, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Note to self

Wikipedia:Transition to CC-BY-SA. —{admin} Pathoschild 22:14:42, 04 November 2008 (UTC)

request for third opinion

Hi, I and my fellow editors are facing a deadlock on a issue of removing/toning down a section on 'allegation of cruelty' as subsection under 'criticism' section in Operation Blue Star article, concerns include WP:NPOV, the summary of dispute can be found at [16], please let us know your views/opinion at the talk page of the article so that 'alleged' bias may be looked into and a consensual solution may be found. Thanks LegalEagle (talk) 07:37, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Eligibility bug

Hi, Pathoschild, thanks for creating the "edit counting" tool.  :) A question has come up though about a borderline situation, and I was wondering if you could perhaps find some time to take a look at it? According to the tool, Mervyn Emrys (talk · contribs) is eligible.[17] However, a manual count of his mainspace edits seems to show that he is not. He took the answer from the tool and went ahead and voted, but then his votes were stricken saying he wasn't eligible. He is understandably confused at this point, and is asking for clarification. My own feeling is that we should go ahead and let him vote, and we are discussing things at Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2008#Eligibility. Could you maybe weigh in with your thoughts about why we're getting an "eligible" result on this one editor? Thanks, --Elonka 06:11, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed; the query wasn't correctly limiting by date. Sorry about the confusion. —{admin} Pathoschild 08:41:46, 02 December 2008 (UTC)
What was it counting? All edits, not just those prior to November 1? Or was it using some other cutoff date? --Elonka 17:07, 2 December 2008 (UTC)
It was not excluding edits where rev_timestamp>=20081102000000, as the current query shown below does. The script is open-source, if anyone would like to double-check it.
SELECT data.rcount FROM (
    SELECT page_namespace, SUM(rev.count) AS rcount FROM page, (
        SELECT rev_page,COUNT(*) AS count FROM revision WHERE rev_user=' . $user_id . ' AND rev_timestamp<20081102000000 GROUP BY rev_page
    ) AS rev WHERE rev.rev_page=page_id AND page_namespace=0
) AS data, toolserver.namespace AS toolserver WHERE ns_id=page_namespace AND dbname="enwiki_p";
{admin} Pathoschild 20:23:55, 02 December 2008 (UTC)
Okay, thanks.  :) BTW, since you seem more experienced in this than I am, how difficult would it be to create a utility that would scan through the current voters at this year's election, and identify any who had had no activity on Wikipedia in the last two months? In other words, I'm seeing a few people come in who are "retired" accounts who haven't done anything else on WP for several months, then they come in simply to post a single oppose, and then disappear again. It's fairly obvious that there's some off-wiki canvassing going on, and I'd like to get a sense of how widespread it is, or if it's being targeted more on one candidate than others. --Elonka 18:11, 3 December 2008 (UTC)
Given a list of voters, it would be fairly simple to check. ST47's script can extract the list. —{admin} Pathoschild 00:28:49, 04 December 2008 (UTC)

Userbox page

Before just going ahead and outright deleting the page, I think another consensus check would be a good idea. I don't see what the problem is with the page acting as a redirect anyway. --Resplendent (talk) 03:12, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

There have been countless consensus checks, both as an article and as a redirect. See the deletion log for more information. —{admin} Pathoschild 05:24:23, 05 January 2009 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Userbox. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedy-deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Resplendent (talk) 06:27, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Happy Pathoschild's Day!


User:Pathoschild has been identified as an Awesome Wikipedian,
and therefore, I've officially declared today as Pathoschild's day!
For being such a beautiful person and great Wikipedian,
enjoy being the Star of the day, dear Pathoschild!


A record of your Day will always be kept here.

For a userbox you can add to your userbox page, see User:Rlevse/Today/Happy Me Day! and my own userpage for a sample of how to use it.RlevseTalk 00:03, 22 January 2009 (UTC)


French translation

Hey, sorry to bother - but would you be able to try your hand at A Farewell to Love? The language is too archaic for my basic skills, and I'd appreciate if you could give it a try :) Sherurcij Collaboration of the Week: Author:Sabine Baring-Gould 18:28, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

The French is very archaic, so I'll need to look up some of the words to make sure. I'll try my hand at it after I clear some other projects off my to-do list. —{admin} Pathoschild 21:36:08, 06 March 2008 (UTC)

Closure of Haitian Creole Wikisource

If you are looking for something to do, there is a Wikisource that has been "closed" according to meta, but is still alive and kicking. I've not found much that can be salvaged to wikisource.org; see meta:Talk:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Haitian Creole Wikisource. --John Vandenberg (chat) 15:32, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Possible Help

Hi, I do a thesis over the reliabilty of Wikipedia and I am looking for some sources. It seems that you have deleted, 2 years ago, « The Cooperative Production of Knowledge on the Internet - the Case of Wikipedia ». Is it still possible to have a copy of this english traduction of this italian work ? I would appreciate this if you give me a copy --Fabifab 12:46, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Hello Fabifab. The wiki markup is in the box below; you can copy it to another wiki page and preview to get the HTML output. (However, the paragraphs are not properly formatted in wiki markup and will be merged in the output.)
English translation of Italian thesis  '''"Produrre sapere in rete in modo cooperativo - il caso Wikipedia"''' 

{| align=center style="text-align:center"
|The Catholic University of the Sacred Heart, Milan<br/>
Literature and Philosophy Department<br/>
Degree Course in Languages of the Media
|'''The Cooperative Production of Knowledge on the Internet—the Case of Wikipedia'''
|style= "text-align:left"|Supervisor: Prof. Simone Tosoni<br/>
Co-supervisor: Prof. Ruggero Eugeni
| style= "text-align:right"|Degree Thesis of <br/>		
[[w:it:Utente:Vala|Valentina Paruzzi]]	
|Academic Year 2003-2004

:''Marco Polo describes a bridge, stone by stone.''
:''- "But which stone is holding up the bridge?" asks Kublai Khan.''
:''- "The bridge is not held up by this stone or that stone," answers Marco, "but by the line of the arch formed by the stones." ''
:''Kublai Khan remains silent, pondering. Then he says, "Why are you talking to me about stones? Only the arch matters."''
:''Polo answers, "Without the stones, there is no arch."''

:- Italo Calvino, "The Invisible Cities"'' -

This work concentrates on an in-depth analysis of the process of cooperative production of knowledge on the Web. The approach that is used is meant to give a broad look at one of the most discussed topics in the role of the PC as used by individuals, or, perhaps even more, in a context beyond the "digital" element: the question of the collective production of knowledge. 
In the specific case of the following dissertation, the central theoretical point is focused on the dynamics which explain how it is possible to share knowledge and experience on the Web. Here attention is drawn to the specific case of the compilation and maintenance of a free encyclopedia on the Internet, named Wikipedia. We find ourselves before a project to gather and organize knowledge, on a universal level, in cooperation, in which in fact anyone is free to furnish his own contribution to improve the work. The theme of collective production of knowledge has been addressed by following a path that takes us back to the origins of the social construction of the personal computer, which occupied the whole second half of the last century, finding young and fertile ground in the United States for the rapid advancement of technological innovation.
From the key figures of Vannevar Bush and Ted Nelson, to the counterculture revolutionaries who enlivened the 1970s on the American continent, we also focus our attention on a much-discussed subculture, the hacker movement. It has grown substantially in two different directions. The first has taken up the thread of hacker ethics discussion, in its purest and markedly ideological form. Weighing the particular characteristics of hacker actions, from the most deep-rooted orthodoxy to the "Gospel" of hacker philosopher Richard Marshall Stallman, one can outline a picture of the fundamental aspects of the hacker movement. 
Trying, however, to rise above the rhetoric of the discussion of hacking in its early years, often abusive and certainly now obsolete, we pass to a second part in which is proposed  the "moderate" point of view of Eric S. Raymond, one of the most active hackers, definer of the pragmatics of "open-source"--the "adoptive daughter" of many aspects of Stallman's ideology. A more useful vision is dealt with at the end of this treatment, with attention is drawn more to the "praxis" of hacking, leaving out the more extremist theory, powerfully charged with political values, that has been conceived and sustained by Richard Stallman. Raymond, on the other hand, stresses the real context in which hackers are found: a united community founded on shared values, but in which conflicts and particular dynamics of relationships and power are not lacking. 
A further reading, beyond that supplied by the analysis of the hacker movement, comes from the fourth chapter. Here, after having abandoned the ideological and ethical apparatus inspired by the ethical discourse, attention is directed to the cooperation in the structure of the "emerging system." Therefore we go beyond an explanation exclusively supplied by the observation of a motivational push, such as that of an origin within the hacker movement, and concentrate on a mainly technical and structural aspect in order to describe the results of the process of cooperation in its evolution, its "fulfillment." Such a dynamic occurs in the so-called phenomenon of  "emergence." There has, however, been completed an attempt to explain briefly how in reality the web, in the most generic sense of the term, can support forms of auto-organization such that to be identified as a product of configurations of the same [sic!!!!].
[È stato quindi compiuto un tentativo di spiegare brevemente come in realtà la rete, nel senso più generico del termine, possa supportare forme di auto-organizzazione tali da essere segnalate come un prodotto della configurazione della stessa.]
[Pur indicando delle riserve nella possibile lettura di questo approccio, è sicuramente interessante proporre un’interpretazione di questo genere al sorgere di atteggiamenti cooperativi in una struttura di rete.]
We go further with an explanation of the workings and most important characteristics of the structure of complex behavior to which emergence refers. Indicating the reserves of the possible reading of this approach [sic], it is certainly interesting to propose an interpretation of this kind to the surge of cooperative behavior in a structure on the web.
The research is placed within this theoretical picture, an empirical case in which it may be possible to read in a situated way the practice of production of knowledge. It will be shown that many of the theoretical ideas examined in the first section of the thesis can be traced in the Wikipedia encyclopedia, whether from the point of view of the ethics at the base of the still-young community of collaborators on the project, or from that of a possible "natural" auto-organization, which takes up the discussion of emergence. 

=The Process of Cooperation on the Web=

==From the Path of Social Construction of the PC Until Today: the Great Utopia of Collective Production of Knowledge==

The theme of collective production of knowledge on the Web has always been one of the central points of the new conception of the personal computer that was being created from the 1950s up till the most recent 1990s.
The path of social construction of the PC winds through various historical and technological stages, which have led to the vision and practice of the use of the personal computer that we possess and are used to today.
First of all, with Vannevar Bush, the idea of a thinking-machine was introduced for the first time; at the end of the 1930s, Bush was concentrating on the problem of the exponential growth of human knowledge. He worked at a time when digital computers were taking their first steps, during the years immediately following the end of the Second World War.
The problem that preoccupied Bush was that of a overload of information, unsustainable for the human mind: the hypothetical solution was that of a machine based on microfilm, which was never produced, called Memex 1 (Memory Extender). Such a machine would be based, by the way, on mechanical and analog technology, where information would be available on microfilm.
However, what is important is that Memex should have been able to work in a way much like that of the human mind: not only knowledge would be archived, but also mental pathways. Already we come to something extremely innovative for the time: a machine that would proceed according to an associative method, recognizing connections and analogies within the information; it was a first attempt to overcome one of the great limits of printing [stampa], linearity.
Memex, however, was conceived as an individual machine2  and not as a collective instrument, which the computer was later to become. In this way, information would be difficult to use for those who had not contributed to the constitution of the archive: the non-expert, according to the argument examined, would not be in a position to find the prearranged associative paths of the machine that imitated the brain of a human expert. 
In 1959, Bush wrote a second paper, Memex II, where he hypothesized a development of the machine: the new Memex would no longer think of so much information, but would also have the capacity to base itself on experience. Thus the machine would not simply imitate the human brain, but would also be able to suggest new cognitive paths to the brain.
Bush therefore has the merit of having come up with the basic theories of what would later be called hypertext, even before the birth of the first real personal computer.
Such challenges then, in the 1960s and 1970s, inspired Ted Nelson3, a true "guru" of the new media, who started work on digital hypertext. Nelson thought of it as an instrument that would be able to think in a new way, capable of imitating the human brain and of supplying new launch-pads toward total freedom from any type of restriction.
Nelson's ideas suddenly took on a strong political and ideological value: hypertext would be able to liberate the human mind from the "cage" of writing and printing. Tired of rigid logical-rational structures, Ted Nelson hypothesized a new network, not pre-existing in its structural bases, where the figure of the ordinary user would be substituted for that of the author-beneficiary.
To make sure that ideas would move freely and without a hierarchy, Nelson talked of a new project, Xanadu4, a docuverse in which everything known to humanity could be gathered and in which everyone would have the possibility of linking to a lessia (or linkable textual sub-unit), according to his own judgment . The ability to create links would represent an enormous form of power: to have this ability would mean feeling free to govern one's own mental paths.
Nelson's machine overcame the limitations of Memex, relegated to the dimension of  individual use. With Xanadu we encounter a social vision, closer to what the computer would later become: information is not archived simply according to mental pathways, but is channeled into a network of contacts in order for there to be elements of exchange, comparison, correction and amplification5.
Ted Nelson's ideas were thus charged with a strong message of freedom: according to his most fervent utopia, everyone should be able to choose his own cognitive pathway within an infinity of information, free of any type of ready-made hierarchy. The most powerful indictment Ted Nelson threw against the World Wide Web and  against those who have committed the error of having "organized" it to their own liking: the webmasters. According to Nelson, the web is nothing other than something now rigidly organized and structured, in which the webmasters are invested with the enormous power of controlling the hierarchy, in other words that of holding in their hands the pathways of thought. The WWW no longer possesses the possibility of reincarnating the rules of Nelson's utopian hypertext project.
Ted Nelson is certainly not the only one to pursue the idea of utopia and liberty within the youthful computer panorama of the time. At that same historical moment, in fact, between the 190s and 1970s, the hacker point of view spread, creating a subculture that was at first rather unknown, but which later was revealed as one of the fundamental bases of the social construction of the computer. In the case of the hacker perspective, the personal computer quickly became a means for enhancing human faculties, especially creativity.
With the overlap between hacker culture, the hippie movement, and student groups, the first experiments in democratization of the medium were born.  It was actually two students of the University of California at Berkeley, Felsenstein and Lipkin, who belonged to the hacker community that met in the famous Homebrew Computer Club, who connected two computers in a network for the first time, thus creating the famous system of the so-called BBS6, a collection of virtual bulletin boards on which it was possible to exchange messages and to enter into reciprocal contact in a simple and direct way. Finally it was no longer necessary to have recourse to technicians nor to submit to the hard laws of the digital divide7: no longer was anyone fated to be excluded, and in fact the group began to see a new vital life.
For an interesting development of the idea behind the collective use of computers, we may refer to Pierre Levy. As the author8 points out in his text on cyberculture and on the social uses of the new technology,  even rapid technological change could be better absorbed to make up a collective intelligence [anche il rapido cambiamento tecnologico può essere meglio assorbito dal costituirsi di un’intelligenza collettiva], which Levy recognizes as one of the main engines of development of cyberculture. In fact, according to the author: "The more that processes of collective intelligence are developed, […] the more and better individuals and groups can take possession of the technical changes, the less the acceleration of the technosocial movement will be exclusive or humanly destructive9."
Coming to observe the question applied to the process of production of knowledge, in particular on the Web, the theories which are mentioned here find an immediate positive confirmation. Beyond the appropriation of technical means, in fact, it is above all in the process of production of knowledge that the collective intelligence best expresses its force.
The new way of sharing competence and knowledge brings about the birth of a more solid and complete product, which does not come from something "above," but from the "collective," where the components of the multitude each have equal power. To continue with Levy, the chaotic interconnection, already efficient in its sharing of ideas and knowledge, is surpassed in favor of an organic multiplicity, to which we can in all justice give the name of intelligence10.

==History and Ethics of the "Hacker" Culture==

===A new idea of computer programming===
An appropriate place to begin to understand the process of knowledge production on the internet could be furnished from an analysis of the guidelines of the hacker movement, observing how the sharing of knowledge was born, originally purely about computers, [da intendersi prettamente informatica] on the Internet. It is indispensable to give particular attention to the origins and development of this movement, on both a historical and ethical level. Hackers have the merit of having invented their own real "practice": a particular, precise way of benefiting from the computer.
The history of the movement begins in the 1950s, in the United States, at two universities: the already mentioned University of Berkeley and that of Stanford, both in California. Another neuralgic point [sic!] is to be found at MIT (Massachusetts Institute of Technology). As said before, the particularly lively moment from the ideological point of view, along with the diffusion of ideas of a libertarian character, the flowering of acute intelligences interested in the realm of computers, and the constant technological change, were all crucial elements in preparing the way for the birth of a new movement: young, a little rebellious, technologically accomplished.
We may attempt a definition drawing on the studies of Manuel Castells. The term "hacker", as the author points out, is often confused wrongly with that of "cracker", or computer pirate: "Hackers are not what the media tell us. They are not neurotic computer experts anxious to crack codes, break into systems or bring chaos to computer traffic. Those who behave in such ways are called 'crackers'. 11" 

In reality, the hacker is fundamentally someone who tries to resolve a computer problem he has encountered through his personal "exploration", a bug which he has been fighting, for example. It is someone who tends to constantly increase his own technological knowledge to have a better mastery of techniques and languages, in order to be able, later, to amplify or modify software at his own discretion.

The history of hackers began in those universities and in particular among the first groups of students who gathered around the Homebrew Computer Club of Berkeley, founded in 1973.

Their dream, perhaps more their utopia, was to render computer knowledge free and open to all: on a purely technical level, they were characterized by their lack of interest in high-level programming languages, already too distant from basic functioning.
This showed how much their ideology was strongly rooted in libertarian and communitarian values, in that it was aimed toward information that would be free and shared by whomever wanted, without obstacles or technical difficulties. With the birth and diffusion of ARPANET, in the second half of the 1960s, the Internet became a main vehicle for the diffusion of hacker ideas and perspectives, and not only theirs. 

This was, within a short time, the creation of a real community on the web, a tribe linked by ideals and common objectives, able to communicate through the new technology of BBS, just as the Homebrew Computer Club had hoped.

But carefully observing the hacker movement, one notes that in reality it has lived through two great fundamental moments: a first phase, of the "ethical" type, and a second phase, more "pragmatic." For the first step the work of R.M. Stallman was essential, while for the second, attention will be concentrated on Eric Raymond. Beyond the more generic wish to share information and knowledge, the hacker movement set itself apart through its "free software" project, in other words software whose new code was freely distributed, so that anyone could change or improve it and in turn redistribute it. 

In tracing the guidelines of the "ethical" profile of this new idea of computer information diffusion, the figure of Richard Marshall Stallman, as has been said, was fundamental.

===The Philosophy of Richard M. Stallman===
Richard M. Stallman defined the concept of free software, every time that he was asked what it meant: "'Free software' is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of 'free' as in 'free speech,' not as in 'free beer'. 12"  This meant that the software could be used, copied, modified and distributed by anyone, free or for payment, at the discretion of the person who spread it.
The biography of Stallman reflects not only his main traits but also how much his work experience influenced and conditioned the hacker in the defining of the main tenets of his ideology. 
The "great philosopher," thus defined by Linus Torvalds13, entered the hacker community in 1971 when he arrived at MIT's Artificial Intelligence Laboratory. Stallman and his colleagues were working on a new operating system , and wondered about how everyone could access it freely, without any kind of password or restriction. When MIT began to put pressure on him because access keys were being introduced, Stallman started a subversive action on the computer front. He discovered the passwords that were being inserted and asked those who were supposed to use them to stop using them. [Egli scoprì le password che erano state inserite e chiese a coloro che erano stati indotti a utilizzarle di smettere di farne uso.]

One-fifth of the total number of people who worked there shared the proposition of Stallman: a victory for the newborn hacker ideology. But the unconditional glory lasted only briefly. Even in the 1970s, more precisely on January 31, 1976, Bill Gates, founder of the rising star of the software industry, Microsoft, wrote an open letter where he asked the question which no one at Homebrew had yet dared to ask: "Who can afford to do professional work for nothing?" 
In brief, with the birth and very rapid development of Microsoft, the new software house, the free market in software, which the programmers had become used to, now vanished, making way for the controlled exchange of proprietary software.
Stallman found himself faced with a big ethical problem: proprietary software was at that time indispensable to the system workers at MIT's Artificial Intelligence Laboratory, but that meant ceding to market laws that he wanted to disregard in the sharing of software, and more generally, of creative ideas that could have been freely exchanged and improved. Thus Stallman started researching an alternative to software as intellectual property. He conducted this research by throwing himself totally into it, treating it as a "mission," as he still likes to remember.
In 1984, Stallman, not wishing to submit to the changes he was running into with his philosophy, said goodbye to MIT and dedicated himself to developing a new operating system15 compatible with Unix, the most widespread at the time. He called his system GNU16:: it was completely free. The newly made code was made available, in other words those single units, the programs similar to those that made up Unix.
Richard Stallman's philosophy has always been maintained without compromise by its originator, thanks also to its notably extremist and radically ideological tone. Stallman's extreme vision of cooperation as the only possible and desirable way to create software has led him to various initiatives, among others the foundation of the FSF (Free Software Foundation), and the conception of a new form of authorial rights, called "Copyleft."

===The “Free Software Foundation”===
At the base of GNU and of its most important application, Emacs17, Stallman decided to put a non-profit organization based on voluntary contributions, either in the form of actual work, or financially in money. This organization has had the merit of reuniting, around the GNU and its creator, a permanent group of professionals who can guarantee constant development and aid for the project.
Beyond the job of reuniting developers for a specific project, the Free Software Foundation has made itself the spokesman and point of reference for the "ethical" project which Stallman created, with free software as its base.
The FSF, for Stallman, has incarnated a new possibility of recreating the work conditions which existed at MIT in the first years he was there, when he watched and contributed to a process of constant new creation around a product that could be modified at any moment. As the authors Berra and Meo say, "The basic reasons for Stallman's project reclaim the importance of building and maintaining a social bond within the community of software producers and users, since  the main value of the product is represented by the value of its use by the community and not by the purely economic link to earnings. 18" Stallman's dream was therefore one of a free, constructive cooperation, a sort of working, but above all social, revolution.

===The Idea of "Copyleft"===
The other fundamental result of Stallman's theoretical work was the concept of copyleft. As he himself asserts, copyleft is a term that aims to "overturn copyright".  Copyleft, given out freely by its own creator with "the permission of the author", is what sanctions  the public domain of free software and the right/duty of sharing it. Copyleft makes reference to the license that is associated with free software, the GNU GPL19 (GNU General Public License), which allows that anyone can do anything with the product, except limiting the same freedom for other users.
The GNU GPL is the first license that does not answer to the demands of a government or of the business that released the program, but only to that of the community which created it. Copyleft and the GNU GPL license were an attempt to give a legal basis to both the free market and the products on which it is based. Like the whole ideology of Richard Stallman, an alternative to the dominant commercial system is sought, where software is not necessarily the object of appropriation on the part of the distributing company, but can remain the fruit of a free creative cooperation, the only way tolerated by the Free Software Foundation.
The nucleus of the concept of copyleft is the source code. At the base of hacker ethics is the idea that the source code of any application should remain free and shareable, as well as modifiable by any programmer in the world who decides to do so. It is on this philosophy that, for example, the Linux operating system is based, and the entire hacker and open-source movement: the most important aspect is that the software work, to the detriment of intellectual property, which is serenely sacrificed in favor of the principles of cooperation and continuous development.

===Fundamental Principles of the Ethical Aspect of the Hacker Community===

====Survival, Social Life, and Entertainment: Linus's Law====
At the base of the hacker "ethic", according to a treatment that is revealed by its contents to be directly indebted to Stallman's theories, we can place the three fundamental concepts of Linus Torvalds. 
In the prologue to the text of Pekka Himanen, The Hacker Ethic and the Spirit of the Information Age, Torvalds, the creator of Linux mentioned above, takes up three crucial aspects that are at the origin of hacking: survival, social life, and entertainment20. As discussed a little earlier, it is surely complicated to try to assign a name to every recognizable practice within the hacker movement. Torvalds reminds us that the hacker is someone who has stopped using the computer to "survive" and is concentrating on the other two aspects. The hacker sees the PC as an instrument that allows him to weave social ties, through e-mail for example, in order to build a community in a more or less short time. Still, for the hacker, the computer incarnates above all the practice of "entertainment": everything that can be done with it is ipso facto good and stimulating21.
Beyond the "frivolous" image of the work that has just been given by Torvalds, it is interesting to take a closer look at the ethical discourse that is at the base of hacker culture. With the assumption that the hacker programs and uses the computer because he finds it intrinsically fun and pleasurable, we can observe more broadly how the hacker considers his own work in general.
Pekka Himanen, in his work, guides the reader in a parallel between the hacker ethic of the work and the much more noted and historically placed Protestant work ethic22 of Max Weber. Weber, in his essay, concentrates on the idea of "professional duty" and indicates how: "the work becomes absolutely an end in itself—a 'vocation'." The Protestant religion was dominated by the idea that by sweating and toiling to complete one's work in the best way possible, beyond the economic and monetary return, one would also obtain the certainty of a "privileged" position in heaven. 
Weber traces in the Protestant ethic a structure similar to the monastery: within the Benedictine order was the duty to work. He continues, however, to affirm that the spirit of capitalism soon transformed it into a true "iron cage"23 , having made its own values into rigid fetters to be respected. 
Another fundamental aspect of the Protestant ethic is that of considering work as the most important aspect of a person's life, thus leading to a neglect and refutation of the [importance of] the relations with other people24.
The hacker ethic completely revolutionized what had been said up till then, or better, attached itself [si riaggancia] to the Protestant ethic, as Himanen himself maintains, although not in the strictest sense, as the do-nothing model was certainly not assumed. Work, for the hacker, is something substantially satisfying, that is more like a pastime or amusement than a unavoidable grind. And, as Raymond maintains, a profound moment of "passion" with what he is doing. It is not bothersome and difficult to spend time in front of the computer because at that moment the hacker is fine.
Still on the subject, Himanen talks to us of the optimization of time26: the hacker does not follow the frenetic rhythms of a normal employee's workday, for example. Instead he can manage his own time as he wishes, working basically alone when he wants to: in this sense he optimizes his time. In substance, the hacker does not manage his own day according to the rigid rules required and defined by the Protestant ethic and by the habitual and ordinary labor market, but has at his disposition flexible time which he can decide to use for working or for fun (and these two aspects merge into each other), as he well believes. Academia, actually the model that has been taken to be associated with the hacker ethic, has among its principles that of managing one's own time for oneself. A hacker's time is therefore substantially the same as that defined as the engine of productivity within this ethic: creativity. In substance, as Himanen confirms, a reassessment of everyday life. The hacker ethic does not say that work is a heavy burden, nose to the grindstone, but that it is one of many moments in life in which there is a chance to enjoy what one is doing and to feel satisfied by the product of one's own toil: work does not have to rob time from the other side of life. The hacker is before anything else a human being, not a worker.

====The Advantages of Working With a "Networked" Structure====
One of the fundamental characteristics at the base of the hacker's work is the structure of communication according to a modality definable as "horizontal," with a so-called "networked" organization: the members manage themselves by subdividing the basic activities into projects, in which each one has the ability to finish his own specific part, without "vertical" control, but through an auto-organization which is based fundamentally on communication among equals. The networked structure is facilitated through the weaving of relationships: Stallman, as he himself says, wanted to replicate through the FSF the ambience that was created in the Artificial Intelligence Laboratory at MIT in the beginning of the 1970s. The web, as we will shortly see, at a structural level, permits the activation of so-called "weak links"27, as Barabási observes, taking up the theory of Granovetter, not anchored in tradition or ancient knowledge, but often more efficient for the purposes of work. Furthermore the network structure permits a communication that is notably more quick and direct, which allows the work of the complex to proceed faster. Speed is also a fundamental aspect of any type of innovation, in particular in the sphere of technology: to stay up-to-date allows one to take advantage of a technology adequate for the discovery and development of new ideas.
Moreover, the hacker works concentrating often on a "portion" of the entire project. Work of this kind allows one to verify in real time the quality of the work up till the particular moment. In this way the time that has been lost in correcting errors in the finished product (operations are often left undone, or done later as in the case of slow "updates" or "releases"28, once a year, but necessary to correct a bug) can be saved.
In a situation that appears disordered, the links that contribute most to effective work activity are stimulated. But one cannot speak of anarchy. As we shall try to demonstrate, we observe how in reality we find ourselves before a model of spontaneous organization, or rather auto-organization, which joins the community together "starting at  the bottom", based on shared goals and values. Anarchy is prevented by a coordinator, a fundamental role, but which is not always taken by the same person. Such a structure has been defined, as we shall see, by Raymond29, as a "bazaar." It is certainly a model of organization that is difficult to systematize and to fit into a rigid universal scheme: each case has its own peculiarities and variation of functions.

====The Real Salary of a Hacker: Reputation====
One of the bases of the hacker's work is, at the same time, a product whose networked structure has been discussed, and the mechanism of a "peer-group reputation."  Through cooperation and the consequent creation of social relations, we see a phenomenon that can be defined as the "fuel" in the hacker's work: the input of useful modifications, the discovery of fundamental innovations, simply collaborating together on a project, all feed the reputation. This has two fundamental results: first of all, a given person is recognizable from now on and there is a memory of what his contribution has been. Secondly, there is a sort of pact of trust, which ends by guaranteeing his future work. 
From the point of view of someone who has carried out a specific task, having the reputation of excellence will give him more vigor and force, even charisma, in continuing his work. The growth of ego is a fundamental aspect of the hacker community: the sense of belonging and of being gratified by the opinions, presumably good, which others hold, is something the hacker needs and at the same time is an incentive for him to adhere to the values of the community and to support its aims.
Recognition among peers, here as defined by Raymond, is an observable practice within the hacker culture, and more generally, in any cooperative auto-organized system. But what about money? What role does it play within the hacker community? As Castells30 maintains, it is often believed wrongly that the hacker lives in a sort of golden limbo, where no one needs to provide his own sustenance. But that would not justify the development of formidable intelligences in Third-World or underdeveloped countries. In reality it is in fact in an economy of scarcity that it is indispensable to have, as Castells shows, a strong creative thrust and a notable capacity to put oneself in play. Many hackers, in any case, those who are substantially less radical and less anchored to ideology (in other words, not Stallman's disciples, in the strict sense of the definition), find nothing wrong with making money. Himanen speaks of capitalistic hackers31. Here we see an almost ontological opposition between the concepts of hackerdom and capitalism. The first speaks of passion and freedom, the second of toil and the growth of capital as the supreme goal. A hacker finds himself wavering between his ideals and the economic situation which surrounds him and which, fundamentally, allows him to survive. Obviously, when money is what determines every instant of someone's activity, it is no longer a safe thing to find oneself facing someone who can be defined as a hacker.
A more "pragmatic" part of the hacker movement, which we will discuss at more length in the next chapter, is definable as an "open-source" movement that is part of a more moderate vision of the problem, and it is explained how hacking and industry can co-exist. But already Stallman, again, tells us that it is not a problem to make money, but to make it by walling off information32.
One of the most frequent errors is to associate this organization with Communism. As Himanen affirms, and as Raymond rages, every time he meets with such a provocation, Communism is a model of centralized authority, a structure which obliges its members to put everything in common. Hackers are free to do so and auto-manage themselves, within their own community: the difference could not be more marked. The hacker community simply presents an open structure which recalls that of academia. From this comparison, the model of learning and acculturation is also treated: "A fundamental forceful point of the learning model is the fact that what one person learns is then taught to the others 33." We are confronted with what Pekka Himanen calls "the academy of the net."
This lack of boundaries can lead, however, effectively to a dispersion: still referring to Himanen's writings34, we concentrate on one of the possible consequences that come from the logic in force in the network; the lack of pre-stabilized limits can often lead to a sort of "frivolity," attributable to the lack, in the worst of cases, of responsibility for one's own actions and for the content which is introduced into the web itself. The hacker community avoids this phenomenon, consenting to a sort of anchorage and recognition of certain values which are linked to the necessity of being responsible. The movement calls its members to order, as explained, thanks to the process that feeds reputations: at base, one is recognized as one wishes to appear; if one wants to be appreciated, he must behave correctly.
In conclusion, the work of Pekka Himanen makes us reflect on seven characteristics associated with the hacker ethic: passion, freedom, openness, social value, activity, responsibility, creativity; the first two are directly linked with the work sphere in the strict sense, or more precisely they are what necessarily guides a hacker in his activity. Responsibility comes back into the "nethics" or net ethics defined by Himanen as the behavioral characteristic that dominates network logic. Lastly, the total and lively re-elaboration of one's own capacities, or rather creativity, is the indispensable element for the definite "consecration" on the part of the community.
The cycle of reputation-gratification closes with an individual who is satisfied with himself and is also valued in a satisfying and gratifying way by others.

====The Culture of Donation in the Model of Cooperative Production====
Observing "free software" from an economic point of view, the market at the base of free software reminds us a great deal of the archaic donation model. As Berra and Meo35 point out in their text, taking up the propositions in the essay written in 1924 by Marcel Mauss, where donation is shown to be the social basis of every archaic organization.
The donation would not assume, in this context, an intrinsic value in its nature and in, we might say, its economic value. The donated object is charged with a series of values that are above all of a social and collective nature: this is shown, as Berra and Meo, repeating Goudbout36, point out: "The economic aspect of relations is deeply inserted into a social bond." The donation certainly ends by being considered of greater value through the exchange, especially from being an expression of cohesion and social bonding.
This is what happens within the free software market.  The program created and distributed within the hacker community certainly has an intrinsic value, but it is above all a concrete object charged with values of the symbolic type, more precisely the expression of the pact of trust between hackers, which we mentioned before. Here, as in an economy definable as "of donation", there are no laws of competition and the market in the traditional sense of dominating the mechanism of exchange: we are facing a moral, ethical obligation, to use a terminology that is already noted and consolidated. As Berra and Meo say, this type of economic rapport is in reality more binding than normal commerce: one ends in a sort of perennial indebtment; the personal relations that are created limit the freedom to benefit in the opportunistic sense from the social links created. In my opinion, this is considered an applied and validated rule only [ciò è da considerarsi regola applicabile e valida solo nel caso in cui] because the people37 who take part are guided by a profound ethical sense and a fervid moral orthodoxy: otherwise, it is possible to encounter a sudden breakdown, which sees the negation of all the values that have been accumulated.
Donation is placed, however, within the historical memory of social relations, which sees it as an object of personalized exchange for the person who receives it: to this sense is opposed the diffuse economic market which denies, as Goudbout38 maintains, the "unique," seeing it as a leak, an imperfection within the chain of production of an "identical good" adapted to commercialization.
The economy of the donation would seem to be distantly linked to the economy of scarcity already cited above: however, donation is not linked to the idea of costlessness. Often the donation comes to be used in the primitive community to diminish the gap between rich and poor39: it was a sort of social obligation to redistribute the wealth, a sort of social contract of the equitable type, a la Rousseau, where individual will, or requirements, are sacrificed for the collective will or good. As far as the hacker culture is concerned, this discourse is necessarily different. Among hackers, the software donation is not something that is produced solely in favor of the community to which they refer, whether by the need of demonstrating that they belong to it, or by a question of cultural "enrichment" (or not) of that community. The hacker usually develops, modifies and creates a program out of personal necessity: a need springing from the encounter with a problem, an improvement after discovering an error, and so on.
Here we face a diverse discourse, in which we are no longer speaking of "individual will" sacrificed in favor or that "collective", but of the satisfaction of a personal need which, at the same time, will be shared with those who, like me, have or will have need for it. Cordonnier, quoted in Berra and Meo, affirms by the way: "…The reason is that at one point or another the economic exchange is an obstacle to the interest of individuals. Even if the motive of the exchange is the interest or desire for gain, one needs to know how to give in or lose something to obtain what one wants….The dilemma …is played out through interest, gain, or the individual usefulness which make up the engine (of the commercial exchange), and the obligation to cooperate which constitutes the process." 40
Donation requires, however, a return of some kind: but then how much is the donation process spontaneous, and how much is it on the other hand governed by obligations, even the most moral? As Berra and Meo maintain, certainly at the base of the mechanism which triggers the exchange of donations may be a free act for us [sicuramente alla base del meccanismo che innesca lo scambio di doni ci dev’essere un atto gratuito], that stabilizes the relation of cooperation. Obviously the maintenance of this relation must be dictated by free will, in other words by the desire to continue either the social relation or the cooperation. 
Within free software, cooperation presupposes a relationship of trust, which I have called a pact of trust between members. If we believe in cooperation as a effective and successful method of production, and if we think that everyone shares this vision, it is possible not to facilitate collaborative relationships. Obviously if there is uncertainty about other people's behavior, the choice to cooperate will at least be more difficult and dominated by doubt: one would run the risk of meeting "free riders" on one's own property, those who benefit from other people's work without adhering to the cooperative contract. Still it must be observed that in the exchange between hackers, software comes into play,  something that does not deteriorate in passing from one person to another, but can be amplified and can diffuse knowledge, which is, then, the primary material at the base of production41. So the market for free software, going directly back to the exchange of donations, leads, as we read in Berra-Meo, to a series of decentralizing activities, which lead to a general saving of time and money and also to a better optimization of everyone's work capacity. 
Speaking of this last aspect, it is not meant that work time will be optimized in the ordinary sense, which would be in opposition with the hacker philosophy. It is rather meant that the hacker has at his disposition the entire arc of the day which he can subdivide at his liking into various activities. In this sense, time is optimized, or complies best with the needs of the person who disposes of it. Furthermore, the prospective hacker also has another characteristic: the close interaction between producer and consumer permits the hacker to fully understand the needs and desires of his client. In the case of the hacker, the figures sometimes coincide, constituting the so-called prosumer of Alvin Toffler42. We will have almost arrived at a model of production perfectly integrated on the level of time, true "just in time" production. We face here a new model of production, something that overcomes the questions of intellectual property and of the chain of production of goods in series. In the next chapter we will give a more in-depth look to what we are facing.

====The Dialogic Tension Between the Concepts of "Free" and "Proprietary"====
In this chapter we discuss,  in a very rapid way, the phenomenon of cooperation within the hacker movement. 
Here we concentrate above all on the radical ideology of Richard Marshall Stallman, one of the founders of the hacker ethical culture, as well as of its major frameworks, certainly the most famous and rhetorically exploited. 
Stallman's suggestive visions and values of a pure ideological stamp, legacy of a "hippie technology", have certainly accompanied the first phase of diffusion of the internet and its vertiginous development up till our own time, doubtless contributing, especially in the initial phases, to defining its characteristics and social values. Today a further step is called for, compatible with the current situation, where the hacker ethic can still dominate the imagination of those who work on the Internet, but which needs a development which will not appear excessively utopian and "dated." We see the obligation to look at the entire apparatus in a new light.

1: Cfr. V. Bush 1945<br />
2: Cfr. Bettetini-Gasparini-Vittadini 1999, pp. 19-21<br />
3: Cfr. Nelson 1974<br />
4: Cfr. Nelson 1982<br />
5: Cfr. Bettetini-Gasparini-Vittadini 1999, pp. 21-22<br />
6: Bulletin Board System<br />
7: Here we refer to the particular phenomenon of distribution of technological infrastructure in a non-homogeneous fashion, in that not everyone has access to computers.<br />
8: Cfr. Lévy 2001, p. 31<br />
9: Cfr. ibidem<br />
10: Cfr. ibidem, pp. 162-163<br />
11: Cfr. Castells 2001, p. 49<br />
12: Cfr. the film Revolution OS (2002) by J.T.S. Moore, Ed. Apogeo<br />
13: Linus Torvalds is the creator of the kernel or nucleus of the operating system called "Linux." Linux is an operating system for personal computers, that is, an application which allows the other programs to function. It is characterized by about 12 million users and is developed by about a hundred operators who collaborate on the Internet.<br />
14: ITS, Incompatible Timesharing System. As Stallman indicates, in the documentary Revolution OS, the name was meant to bring out the playful spirit of the lively intelligence that characterizes hackers.<br /> 
15: An operating system is a combination of computer applications that give access to the resources needed for programs to function, even at the same time, without conflicting.
16: GNU is an acronym—a linguistic trick very common in the hacker community—that means "Gnu is not Unix" (and therefore is not proprietary software).<br />
17: Emacs is an editing program with open architecture.<br />
18: Cfr. Berra-Meo 2001, p. 88<br />
19: Version 2 is dated June 1991<br />
20: Cfr. Himanen 2001, p. 10<br />
21: Cfr. ibidem, pp. 11-12<br />
22: Cfr. Weber 2001<br />
23: Cfr. ibidem<br />
24: Cfr. Himanen, ibidem, p. 20<br />
25: Cfr. ibidem, p. 24<br />
26: Cfr. ibidem, pp. 27-39<br />
27: Cfr. Barabási 2004, p. 46<br />
28: These terms mean in substance the updating of a program.<br />
29: Cfr. Raymond 1998: www.apogeonline.com/openpress/doc/cathedral.html<br />
30: Cfr. Castells, ibidem.<br />
31: Cfr. Himanen, ibidem, p. 50<br />
32: Cfr. Stallman, cited in Himanen 2001, p. 53<br />
33: Cfr. Himanen, ibidem, p. 63<br />
34: Cfr. ibidem, p. 103<br />
35: Cfr. Berra-Meo, ibidem, p. 148<br />
36: Cfr. Goudbout 1993 (ed or. L’esprit du don, La Découverte, Paris 1992), cited in Berra-Meo 2001<br />
37: Reference to the dramaturgical metaphor of Erving Goffman, for whom the individual is an actor who directs his own behavior and a certain mask, created and prepared "backstage," in the sphere of a social "scene" that foresees interaction with one or another other social actors.<br />
38: Cfr. Goudbout in Berra-Meo 2001, p. 151<br />
39: Cfr. ibidem, p. 152<br />
40: Cfr. ibidem, p. 157, cited by Cordonnier, Cooperation et réciprocité, pp. 8-9<br />
41: Cfr. ibidem, p. 162<br />
42: As cited in Berra-Meo 2001, p.171<br />
43: Cfr. ibidem, pp.168-174
{admin} Pathoschild 13:51:29, 05 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for fixing my stupid mistake.[18] :-) Ashton1983 21:33, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

You're welcome. :) —{admin} Pathoschild 21:51:22, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Without a source?

Hi, I understand "incomplete text", but what exactly does "without a source" mean?[19] I got Daddy-Long-Legs at Project Gutenberg[20] and I intend to add the whole book to Wikisource. (I also have a printed copy, which I'm using for copyediting.) Ashton1983 22:32, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

That is a tracking category added by the template if you don't specify a source; Jayvdb added the source. —{admin} Pathoschild 23:02:55, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, yes I saw Jayvdb's edit, and guessed that that was how it worked. Ashton1983 23:05, 11 May 2008 (UTC)


*nudge* It seems that most of Wikisource have forgotten about this, but consensus (at least counting editor's opinions on preferable designs) seems to favor the colour scheme of User:DarkFalls/Main Page 2 (Looks rather terrible at the moment considering the size of the featured text, although this could be fixed). I was wondering whether we could test the design for a week/month on the main page, and assess whether it will work once the end of the period is up. —Dark talk 07:57, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

I suggest proposing it on the Scriptorium first, since there were a number of designs being discussed at the time and no final product. I personally don't like the new design, but if there's no other opposition we can implement it and see how it goes. —{admin} Pathoschild 08:41:43, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
Sure. —Dark talk 06:17, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
There doesn't seem to be any more opposition after I fixed the issue with small resolution screens... I was thinking that we could implement it for the month of June (in one day -.-)... Any objections? —Dark talk 06:31, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Header on en.ws: a bug?

Hi Pathoschild : is it normal if the line 'translator' remains empty here (previous chapters too), or is some mistake mine in this? Thanks if you can check. --Zephyrus 22:48, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

There's no established practice on whether to add the 'translator' information on every page, since the 'translator' field is relatively new. You can add it to every page if you want to. —{admin} Pathoschild 04:31:59, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
The point is that the translator field was automatically added on Persian Letters, but not on The Essays of Montaigne. Yann 14:40, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Maybe the script doesn't recognize the three-level page hierarchy. Try asking Remember the dot, who maintains the templatePreloader script. —{admin} Pathoschild 03:59:12, 14 June 2008 (UTC)


Please translate my workshop I don't translate user:rlagmlrn4u/workshop suppose you don't know korean if so you do not translate Rlagmlrn4u 09:43, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

No, I do not know Korean. —{admin} Pathoschild 18:20:45, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

They've sucked me in...

... and I forgot how pretty my Monobook was. Jude (talk) 09:51, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

Substituting {{indent}}

Hello Hesperian. Was there any discussion about substituting {{indent}}? I think that makes pages like Break of Day in the Trenches much harder to edit and read. While that page can be converted to <poem>, many can't be. A better solution would be to migrate such pages to the new {{indent}} format. —{admin} Pathoschild 10:01:34, 09 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi. The discussion is at Jaydvb's talk page. Yeah, I'm sorry about that. It was a small step in a larger process, and it did seem like a good idea at the time. Before I'd even finished the AWB run, I started to have doubts about whether I was actually improving the situation, but I was so close to finished that I decide to plough on to the end. What I should have done is what you're doing – assess each case on its merits, and replace the old template call with plain text, a new-style invocation of {{indent}} or <poem>, according to what is best for the situation. How do you think we should proceed from here? Hesperian 11:44, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
If you don't mind losing the work you did, we could revert your changes and auto-categorize every old-style {{indent}}. Then we could use the category to manually replace on a case-by-case basis. —{admin} Pathoschild 12:10:07, 09 October 2008 (UTC)
No, I don't mind losing the work I did; what I mind is the fact that I did it in the first place. Okay, I'll start hammering the rollback button. :-( Hesperian 12:40, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Don't worry, I think that happens to most bot operators at some point. :) Pages with the old format should start appearing in :Category:Deprecated indent usage now. —{admin} Pathoschild 12:58:50, 09 October 2008 (UTC)

U.S. Code

Please see my proposal at Wikisource talk:WikiProject US Code, and discuss it there. Thanks!

The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion

The Talk Page in the above has been Moved by the user who reverted my work.

Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible misnamed?

Hi, Just being doing some author pages, and find that the books we have called Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible is probably Exposition of the Old and New Testaments

search at archive.org. What is the normal protocol? To add a redirect from the proper name to it? Leave it? -- billinghurst (talk) 04:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Hello billinghurst. There seems to be multiple editions with additions and changes by other authors, as well as at least one abridged edition.[21][22][23] Comparing the text we have to the edition of Exposition of the Old and New Testaments in the Internet Archive[24], our current version is missing at least the introduction. To confuse the issue further, it seems John Gill released Exposition of the Old and New Testaments in the mid-1700s, after Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible in 1706 (I suspect John Gill's edition was based on the 1706 edition).[25]
Ideally we want every edition published, with a neat disambiguation page noting the differences between each edition. I think we should identify which edition we have now, or possibly replace it with a known edition. —Pathoschild 08:18:51, 21 December 2008 (UTC)
Of course. I was thinking too narrow. -- billinghurst (talk) 10:15, 21 December 2008 (UTC)