User talk:George Ho

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Welcome to Meta![edit]

Hello, George Ho. Welcome to the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki! This website is for coordinating and discussing all Wikimedia projects. You may find it useful to read our policy page. If you are interested in doing translations, visit Meta:Babylon. You can also leave a note on Meta:Babel or Wikimedia Forum (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). Happy editing!

-- Meta-Wiki Welcome (talk) 04:23, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Notification[edit]

Hello, if I will make any statement here, everything what I will say will be twisted by Ark25. We have had debates regarding his behaviour for over three years, and I incline to stay away from any additional discussions with this user. He was banned from ro.wp for flooding the project's pages with external links from newspapers, magazines, tabloids, etc, without carrying if an external link is appropriate or not for a particular subject. This is the real reason, and even on this Request for Comments, it is clear, that he refuses to get the point.

Please do not move this comment on that page, as I do not want to get involved again in a non-sense discussion. I wrote to you out of courtesy. Take care,––Silenzio76 (talk) 20:19, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Beeblebrox, what to do about the above comment? May I copy and paste this? --George Ho (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
No. You may not. I made it very clear that I do not want to be part of that discussion. I would really appreciate if you would respect this request.--Silenzio76 (talk) 21:20, 23 March 2017 (UTC)

Inspire Campaign survey on outreach to outside knowledge networks[edit]

Inspire Campaign Knowledge Networks Logo.png

Thanks for your participation during the Inspire Campaign focused on outreach to outside knowledge networks from February 2017. I'm interested in hearing your experience during the campaign, so if you're able, I invite you to complete this brief survey to describe how you contributed to the campaign and how you felt about participating. I want to improve how campaigns are run, so let me know if there's something that could be done better for next time.

Please feel free to let me know on my talk page if you have any questions about the campaign or the survey. Thanks! I JethroBT (WMF) (talk) 18:34, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

(Opt-out instructions)

Survey link error fixed[edit]

Hi there, there was a error with the Inspire survey link that caused the survey to be shown as expired, but has now been fixed. The link in the above message should now bring you to the survey. Apologies, I JethroBT (WMF) 19:20, 31 March 2017 (UTC)

Notifying Albanian Wikipedia community[edit]

Hi George Ho, I read your concern here [[1]]. You can easily notify or talk with other users in Shqip Wikipedia in English. You can contact certain editors if you find it easier. You can also contact me, on my talk here, on Shqip or English Wikipedia. Emailing me is an option too. Best. Ktrimi991 (talk) 13:33, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Please close Iloko Wikipedia[edit]

The Ilocano Wikipedia has more about languages than the others. Please close this wiki because this is only used by about languages. --Cyrus noto3at bulaga (talk) 02:31, 7 May 2017 (UTC)

Re: Wikimedia Forum[edit]

IMHO not. There isn't a significant disruption, while inability to have discussions with everyone would be terrible. --Nemo 06:03, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

The entry[edit]

Thank you George. You're perfectly free to correct it. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:10, 7 June 2017 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't know the enwiki Project namespace (those policies, guidelines, essays, other stuff). That's why I made that mistake. I fixed it. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 21:33, 12 June 2017 (UTC)

Talk:Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2017/Cycle_3#Encyclopedic_model[edit]

Do you think your comment is useful? For whom? And why? Of course there might be any number of additional or alternative projects. But I happen to like Wikipedia and enjoy contributing. And I'd like to remind WMF that the happy readers of our Wikipedia are paying their salaries, so they should not cut the branch they are sitting on. If they want to start something new, they should expect to look for new contributors, because we - the community - are self selected encyclopedia nerds. And many if not most of us will not suddenly convert to video tutorial creators or build and fill a database for the semantic web that does not use full sentences, paragraphs and articles. --h-stt !? 14:02, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

I sent you a reply there. --George Ho (talk) 18:06, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
From me also: Thanks for Your care and mail, but comments like "Umm... we know that Wikimedia ≠ Wikipedia, Magiers, right?" are not necessary and will drive me out of further conversations. --Magiers (talk) 21:57, 5 July 2017 (UTC)
I struck out opening sentence, Magiers. --George Ho (talk) 22:01, 5 July 2017 (UTC)

re: RFC discussions about Arabic Wikipedia[edit]

Hello George. I am sorry for being late on this (I am not really using my volunteer account much lately, and it is also a busy time of the year for us). Anyway, thank you for notifying me on this. It seems one of the two requests is already closed, I will check on the other, which seems to be a little long, and see if I have something useful to contribute. As for the elections thing: it is totally alright, I did not really expect to win, but I liked the experience :) I am probably not going to explore other opportunities, though. Hopefully, someone else will --Abbad (talk) 12:38, 7 July 2017 (UTC).

Re: Need update on Cycle 3 in local wikis[edit]

It's up to local coordinators when they decide to update respective pages and inform communities. For example, I needed to take a day off, that's why I'm updating today. The question about dewiki should be directed to Gereon.

Btw, on enwiki and other sites I deal with, I don't hide the Cycle 1 insights and references, so both of the existing challenges can be discussed. Similarly, in the third week of July, Challenge 2 will be visible by default, so two days earlier or later should make no difference. Additionally, AFAIK, challenge 3 and 4 materials should show up earlier (on Wednesdays or Thursdays), and the coordinators will have more time to prepare. SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 12:49, 11 July 2017 (UTC)

Abuse at Romanian Wikipedia[edit]

Please continue at Requests for comment/Extreme abuses at the Romanian Wikipedia if you may. Thanks. BTW, Ark25, no worries. But as said, continue there. --George Ho (talk) 00:38, 25 July 2017 (UTC) (click to expand or collapse)
Hey George Ho, I find that this Requests for comment/Extreme abuses at the Romanian Wikipedia is extremely political, I can't help but to think you are about to find yourself mired with trouble, are you fine?--AldNonymousBicara? 22:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
AldNonymous... may you please explain how I'm in "trouble"? Thanks. --George Ho (talk) 22:51, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
I have experience dealing with case like this at id.wp (about Minang people, etc), what you got is actually Silenzio76 personal hatred for Moldovan-Romanian related cases, secondly despite his bias he hate (serious hate) about hoax medicine like herbalism and stuff (The stuff that Ark25 writes), combine the two and put it in Ark25, voila!, I now can understand all this personal hatred from Silenzio76 for Ark25, I suspect Silenzio76 knows Ark25 IRL, this causes the hate. Not to mention Ark25 is wikidragon (again, similar to Indonesian Wikipedia problem with our own wikidragon Erik Fastman-we hate this guy so we vote this guy to become an admin, and now id.wp got extra 100K articles out of nowhere, problem solved lol), this was old school case about high content, low patrol, politically fueled content. Now about you on this case, the problem is about you being in the center of this, when you support one side and condemn the others you will be hated by the other side, you are in for a long-long arduous wikihounding. Though on other note, want some help?--AldNonymousBicara? 22:58, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
AldNonymous, hate is a strong word, I could assure you that I don't hate, so far, anything in life. :). All the best, --Silenzio76 (talk) 09:02, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
All right... Please help yourself there. Meanwhile, what to do with newly created Requests for comment/2017 issues on Romanian Wikipedia, AldNonymous? --George Ho (talk) 23:02, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Ahem, I was actually saying (implicitly) to help you pull out from those cases and leave it alone, but well, since you are thinking about actually wanting to help, I can give some opinion, about Requests for comment/2017 issues on Romanian Wikipedia. First what you must do is to never compare en.wp with any small Wikipedia if you never have experience dealing with legacy wikipedia (Wikipedia that exist by Jimmy wales approval and exist long before meta wikimedia even exist). In the old times 'crat and admins enjoy big privileges and can do almost anything on their wiki, and this has become a local custom, not even people from meta can change this. Second, since you can't resolve this, ask steward for opinion at Stewards' noticeboard.--AldNonymousBicara? 23:11, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
No, no.... If I can't compare, then... I'll withdraw that "2017" page. Is that fine, Aldnonymous? Also, I thought I could facilitate well because I didn't understand much. However, I guess you want me out of the RFCs, right? If that's it, well... How can you get me out of the cases and let them flow? --George Ho (talk) 23:16, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
Also, you're saying that I should not mention "PROD", right? --George Ho (talk) 23:19, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
On second thought, I've been thinking, Aldnonymous. If you know so much about those two, why do you think I would be getting myself into trouble? Why not go into the ongoing RFC and make a statement there? --George Ho (talk) 00:31, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
First, just never bring en.wp rules to other smaller Wikipedia, those local communities will taking it wrongly. Second, it's because I know so much about stuff like these I avoid it like avoiding a plague, it's never end until one of the sides is blocked permanently and globally.--AldNonymousBicara? 00:36, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

I requested deletion on Requests for comment/2017 issues on Romanian Wikipedia as comparison between en.wp and ro.wp, Aldnonymous. Is that fine? --George Ho (talk) 01:12, 20 July 2017 (UTC)

@Aldnonymous: it is not my job to interfere in the decision-making process, but let me tell you that this is not a personal hatred of Silenzio76 against Ark25. The fact that he explained the reasons for a decision taken at ro.wiki does not mean he hates someone, but only that he explained the reasons for that decision - including on behalf of others. On the contrary, it was one of us who tried most to talk with Ark25 before it was blocked. --Accipiter Q. Gentilis (talk) 09:59, 20 July 2017 (UTC) P.S. There is a story about a soldier and an emperor. The soldier told the king bad news, and the king cut off his head because the news was not good news. So Silenzio76 is like that soldier, why should we cut his head because we don't like the news he brought ?

Sorry to interfere. I don't know Silenzio76 in real life and he doesn't know me either. There is no hate involved here. There is some huge despise involved though, and that all comes from Pafsanias towards me - he is probably still a bit too young, I guess. But there is also some serious disliking against me as the recent storm against me clearly showed a wave of uncontrolled fury. Silenzio76 is totally convinced that I'm disruptive and a troll and that I'm clearly defective beyond repair but he tries to stay calm and without emotions - you don't have to hate the bug, just to squash it. He just doesn't understand that the people have the right to answer the accusations against themselves. He really doesn't understand that nobody is above the law. He is an admin, and he is convinced that he is always right simply because he has the power. The rules do not apply for him. He can bend the rules and as he pleases in order to serve his purposes. How can you obey something that it's your creation and that is below your level? It's a mindset where it's all about level and status, probably coming from a highly patriarchal/parochial/hierarchical attitude. And this attitude generates all the rest of the errors he is making: you have no right to answer the accusations, you must only say positive things about the accusations, you are not allowed to believe in this or that, you are not allowed to disagree, insulting-cursing-screaming towards you are the right way to deal with you (since you are so disruptive because he dislikes you), blocking you for edits made with years or decades before is absolutely fine and so on.
As for me, I don't believe that I have an inflexible position. I just want to have a restricted user - one edit per month. If that's too much, then one edit per year. I really can't see how can I be more flexible than that. Shall I apply for one edit per decade maybe? Then how about an edit every 30 years? What else should I do in order to prove that I am willing to compromise? They have to remove their inflexible position in order to make any communication possible, because they keep claiming that they did absolutely nothing wrong. In case they will allow me to have a restricted user, then they will block me whenever they want, for whatever reason they want. So they must adjust their attitude quite a little bit.
Indeed, I created articles about pseudoscience, and I quoted various fancy claims. I haven't promoted those claims, I just quoted them. Quoting fancy claims provides a good reference, showing to the reader to see that all kind of fancy claims were made since years and years ago. Many times the charlatans are simply repeating fancy claims made before, speculating the fact that the public is not even aware that the same claims were made 5,10,50 or 100 years ago. So I really believe that my work is actually doing a good job against pseudoscience. But strangely, these admins believe that I somehow desire to promote pseudoscience. They claim that I should dismantle those fancy claims, by proving them wrong. Well, I would like to be able to do that, but many times nobody in the scientific community bothers to prove that those fancy claims are wrong, so I have no references to use in order to dismantle such fancy claims. At the English Wikipedia there is no such request to dismantle fancy claims and you can simply quote what the "extraordinary people" declare.
I really don't belive that, if George Ho or anyone else takes sides, they will be haunted by anyone. I was strictly naming those people were part of the storm against me and launched a lot of strange and comical accusations against me. There are others who are on their side, who dislike me simply as an effect of the waves made by this conflict. In short, as long as you take sides but you don't come with strange accusations against me, I'm not going to react. The other side will probably react very similar.
But in any case, I think this Romanian Wikipedia underlines a bigger Wikipedia issue: The small Wikipedias have small communities, incapable to solve such issues. Therefore, the rule that says that small Wikipedias should handle themselves is completely broken. It's like asking an infant to handle himself - an impossibility. Such a rule sounds nice, it looks clear, quintessential and wonderful - but it simply doesn't make sense for the small communities. The admins there tend to become abusive because the Wikipedia project keeps in place a broken rule, pure in form but devoid of meaning.
And I really don't believe in the solution proposed by AldNonymous, to block one side permanently and globally. This issue doesn't spill on mine activity nor on their activity on French or Spanish or German Wkikipedia. If there will be no solution for me, then at very least this complaint will make the abusive admins think again before doing such things again to someone else. The people who will experience the things that I experienced will be encouraged to come forward and to defend themselves. It can also build towards a better understanding of the inner workings of small Wikipedias. Many positive outcomes.
Sorry for the long answer. —  Ark25  (talk) 00:28, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

Short explanation[edit]

Before You engage in something [2], ask the people concerned.
A vandal has sexually harassed our female user with this message [3] ("invitation" for fellatio), and that bully still shamelessly dares to complain, hiding his dirty behaviour under alleged "blocking because of his nationality". Kubura (talk) 06:30, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

All right, Kubura. I'll ask people first before doing something. But why before making an edit there? As for that edit, that happened in 2009, eight years ago. How would that hold up well? --George Ho (talk) 06:51, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
We must protect women against such verbal violence. Saying such things ("come and suck ...") is not just NSFW, but a prompt firing. Am I wrong? Ask the women for the opinion. Ask the women from the Board of Trustees [4]: how would they react to a such message?
Personally, I am now even more concerned that I did the wright thing. That harasser not only insulted the woman, but also he showed no feeling of guilt for his behaviour, and even more, he finds the targeted/victim population as the aggressor! He pushes aside his act, "it's never problem with him, it's always the others".
Man, even the congresmens' and senators' careers are endangered if they say something like that ("come and suck my ...."). Kubura (talk) 07:06, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
I hope you were being sarcastic when you said "I'll ask people first before doing something". You don't need anyone's permission to engage in any discussion. – Srdjan m (talk) 11:07, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Few advices[edit]

Hello, George. When talking about something, please, ask the users concerned. This page [5] or similar topics always activate approximately few weeks before the anniversary of Croatian liberatory military operation Oluja. These days every year in Croatian media there is a ongoing fight among politicians, journalists, publicists and others about that topic. Accusations and stuff.
Especially recent years: last year about this time a cardinal (hr:Alojzije Stepinac) has been fully rehabilitated on the court, this year the chairman of Croatian national cultural society hr:Filip Lukas. Both were condemned on the Yugoslav Communist court. Last year about this time also a monument to a Croatian revolutionary was revealed (hr:Miro Barešić), with the presence of the representatives of Croatian Government.
The "left" and "Yugoslavia-restaration" activists are very active these days. These days started the discussion about the oath of the Croatian President: should the "so help me God" be in that oath or not. The activists pushed thing so far that Constitutional court had to say that that part is not opposing to the Constitution.[6] ('Tako mi Bog pomogao' nije suprotno Ustavu), July 25, 2017
When the activists attack, they choose no means, behaving :"The heavier the accusation, the better". I so this message. That "white washed fascist movement symbol"[7] (as VS6507 wrote on 04:45, 21 November 2015; BTW VS6507 is permanently blocked for harassing female colleague with "come and suck my ....") is a regular symbol Croatian national TV. [8][9] (in the corner up left) Have a look.
Please, don't allow yourself that vandals pull You by the nose. They are wasting Your precious time. Please, don't allow that discontents misguide and misinform You. Kubura (talk) 06:56, 26 July 2017 (UTC)

Re: Informing all communities onwiki about the draft of the Direction[edit]

Yes, they should and they will. I waited for an official info about the launch, and after Katherine's post on mailing lists, today (imho) can count as day 1. I'll send messages to village pumps on many mid-sized wikis. (Nobody besides the drafting committee really knew when day 1 would come.) SGrabarczuk (WMF) (talk) 08:06, 8 August 2017 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Nahuatl Wikipedia 2[edit]

Hello; In this page, is over second closure for Nahuatl Wikipedia. Regards.--Marrovi (talk) 06:44, 10 October 2017 (UTC)