User talk:Sadads

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Welcome to Meta![edit]

Hello Sadads, and welcome to the Wikimedia Meta-Wiki! This website is for coordinating and discussing all Wikimedia projects. You may find it useful to read our policy page. If you are interested in doing translations, visit Meta:Babylon. You can also leave a note on Meta:Babel or Wikimedia Forum (please read the instructions at the top of the page before posting there). If you would like, feel free to ask me questions on my talk page. Happy editing! Tempodivalse [talk] 21:20, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

Wikimedia Travel Guide: Naming poll open[edit]

Hi there,

You are receiving this message because you voiced your opinion at the Request for Comment on the Wikimedia Travel Guide.

The proposed naming poll opened a few days ago and you can vote for as many of the proposed names as you wish, if you are eligible. Please see Travel Guide/Naming Process for full details on voting eligibility and how the final name will be selected. Voting will last for 14 days, and will terminate on 16 October at 06:59:59 UTC.

Thanks, Thehelpfulone 22:07, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Grantmaking Barnstar[edit]

IEG barnstar 1.png Individual Engagement Grant Barnstar
Thanks for the thoughtful participation in IEG proposal discussions - hope to have your ideas and input again in round 2! Siko (WMF) (talk) 19:49, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! Sadads (talk) 20:09, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

No[edit]

No. I did not write that for you nor for your project, and you have no right taking credit of its creation as being part of your project. Ottava Rima (talk) 19:02, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Removing it, it was in the window of time when the project has been active. It wasn't a claim to ownership of any sort, Sadads (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
" but Ottava Rima also appears to have plagiarized a few things in writing the (such as the Damon quotes I just added quotation marks to)." No. This was my version. Your quote came from Dmitrismirnov as well as other instances of plagiarism. I pointed out that he added original research, plagiarism, and lied about what sources said. I have sent out such instances to many people so far. Not only am I an actual scholar in the area (which neither of you are), I have written many FAs and GAs in the field. The additions by him would have him expelled from college because of the academic dishonesty (plagiarism and false attribution) they contain. The page is clearly not encyclopedic, and many of your pages aren't. Ottava Rima (talk) 03:20, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
@Ottava Rima: You are correct on my statement, I had misread where in the additions that was from (notice I prefaced the comment with my tiredness). I removed the comment, and will do a more careful reread of Dmitrismirnov's work. However, generally, his work has not been "original research, plagiarism, and lied", rather its writing of someone who is still learning the ropes of the kinds of writing need for high quality work. His paraphrasing is sometimes poor - yes I can agree with that - but I have yet to find a moment where he outright misused a quote or demonstrated some egregious use of sources. Remember, Wikipedia is both a work in progress and a place where people learn to contribute and build human knowledge, not some pillar of the academy. I currently teach writing, and know that every one of my students, whether a good or poor writer, will make mistakes about source use. Academic dishonesty is when individuals purposefully present information as there own in order to gain additional credit, not when someone makes minor (uneducated) errors of judgement when quoting and paraphrasing.
Also, I am going to regret asking this, but why tack on the "many of your pages aren't"? These kinds of comments only work to irritate whoever you are writing towards. Just in a couple of interactions, you are impressing upon me why your editing ban still holds in English Wikipedia. As a language and literature scholar, you should be familiar with the ideas of Ethos and Pathos when writing to persuade others. Does your language really engender an opportunity where others will want to be persuaded by your position? If you are a 19th century scholar, I would appreciate continued help in cooperation with the w:William Blake Archive through the project you disavowed above (you should be familiar with that organizations scholarly authority). However, simply addressing me with "No" and insults, makes me really resistant. Hope you are well, and I hope that we can interact on better terms in the future, Sadads (talk) 03:56, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Fair use requires summarizing. He has infringed on Damon's text by taking the full copyrighted work of The Mental Traveller excerpt. He didn't use quotation marks when he used most of it. When he does summarize, he got the summarizing wrong and often says things that are opposite of the text yet claimed I did such to hide from his problems. This is not unique to The Mentally Traveller page.
"why tack on the 'many of your pages aren't'?" Have you not noticed how many of the Blake project pages the user has edited? Almost all of the new ones you have listed on the project page. All of the pages he touched has these problems. This has happened because you waded into something without the ability to have a forceful hand to prevent such problems. It should be obvious that "not everyone can edit" if you are trying to make something academic. A lot of people need to be watched carefully because they will only add problems.
As for the last point - addressing with "no" is blunt but not an insult. I already have enough problems with people adding my work to their projects and taking credit for it - I've had long fights with the Ada Lovelace people after they point to my additions as proof that they can add to the encyclopedia while ignoring that their only real additions have been claims of affairs or gambling problems. My work is my own and no one else's, and I prefer to keep it that way because my academic reputation is intrinsically connected to what I have added here. Ottava Rima (talk) 04:08, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
@Ottava Rima: As regards the plagiarism, I am beginning to go through the more recent edits now, and can see the problems. I confronted D on those issues at his talk page and hopefully we can use this as a learning experience for him. If not, I will keep a closer eye on his work.
As regards "This has happened because you waded into something without the ability to have a forceful hand to prevent such problems. It should be obvious that "not everyone can edit" if you are trying to make something academic." I knew exactly what I was wading in to: a huge gap in humanities materials on Wikipedia. The Editor I am working with from the Blake Archive is less interested in that the contributions are academic and more interested that we have better documentation of Blake and Blake scholarship on the Web. The archive is the location for Academic material to be present on the Web. On the other hand, Wikipedia offers an opportunity to lay more foundations for a public gateway to this knowledge. Wikipedia is by no means an academic place, rather it's a, per Whitson and Whittikar's recent book on Blake and digital remixing, a w:Folksonomy that gathers and present relevant information and directs people to sources outside the project, if they really are intrepid enough to continue researching. I don't use a forceful hand, because any work is a contribution to the space, and can be polished in later practice, for example my recent revisions of w:Beulah_(Blake). Sure that article is not a great examination of the topic, but it provide enough that the less then 10 visitors a day can get some basic questions answered, and go looking for more if that is what they want.
As for adding work to the Blake project: it has nothing to do with credit, it has everything to do with documenting the changes that occur during a period, so that people can see the dynamics of project. I am in the process of trying to get several Digital Humanities projects (including the Blake) to allocate funding for graduate interns to be researching, and developing Wikipedia materials. Without showing the changes that happen during a period, both in sync and out of sync with my direct intervention, I can demonstrate the value of additional academic support of Wikipedia.
I would greatly appreciate additional higher quality content related to Blake, as I know that you have produced before, but without supportive and cooperative collaboration, I am stuck with the much more amateur manpower that is choosing to help (for a relatively inexperienced editor in the English Wikipedia community, he is doing a fairly good job). Again, happy editing, and I appreciate you bringing to attention the problems with copyvio (I will do some revision to clear that up), Sadads (talk) 15:38, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
Check out w:Ode: Intimations of Immortality. That is an academic page. That is what Wikipedia would excel at, and that would be good for everyone. I also wrong w:Kubla Khan, but it has since deteriorated by a guy who inserts original research, plagiarism, and other problematic material. That is what happens to these pages unless you can keep people who plagiarize and put in nonsense out. I do not like having pages that I wrote associated with plagiarism and other problems, which is why I don't like them being connected to groups in general. The larger the organization, the higher chance for these problems to happen. And these individuals tend to spread like a plague, infecting page after page, and they go through organizations like wildfire. You can find a list of poetry pages to base formatting on here. Standard is 1. Lead 2. Background (general history of writing and publishing) 3. Poetry summary (in the style of Bloom's "Reader" analysis of short analysis and short excerpts of key points), 4. Themes (critical discussion of themes, not quotations as this section is for agreed upon ideas and not controversial/unique ideas unless it has been debated) 5. Reception (critics saying if a poem is good or bad and comparisons to the quality of other poems). Ideally, 1 sentence should be the summation of 10 or more sentences in a critical work. Anything less starts to cross the line of what is fair use and what is not. Ottava Rima (talk) 17:11, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
(from a passerby, I hope you both don't mind): Ottava Rima, didn't you mean "anything more [than 10 percent] starts to cross the line"? I'm interested in this as a rule of thumb that I could use in guiding others. I am aware of a 10 percent guideline for how much of someone's work can be used without violating copyright (like I think a teacher can safely and ethically photocopy and distribute 1 chapter out of a 10+ chapter work without permission), and am vaguely aware of a U.S. court case being cited as the source for the 10 percent threshold. Your suggestion of applying 10 percent as a guideline for when summarizing is done is different but sounds like a good one. Can you comment more? If here, please ping me. --Doncram (talk) 17:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the advise @Ottava Rima:. I definitely have tried to keep within the standard you lay out in my own work (though mostly on novels, here it is w:en:User:Sadads#Contributions), but thinking from an outreach perspective, it makes sense to encourage multiple different types of users to develop pages. Dmitrismirnov's work hasn't all been bad: take w:en:Visionary Heads for instance, which has, after community review and work, become quite good. I think the problem is that he hit w:en:The_Mental_Traveller with a little too much zeal (and I can see that now, and will begin doing some shaping). I poked Johnbod to take a look at some of Dmitrismirnov's other work, and when I get time, I will do the same. However, even if we don't catch it now, I imagine we will continue seeing improvements, per Wikipedia's work in progress ethos, hopefully.
Also, I would like to reach out again and offer: If you want to write articles for some of the gaps we still have in either terms or poems that would be great! (I can move them over to Wikipedia). I have a Wikipedia article writing assignment working on the SoI&oE poems Laughing Song (Songs of Innocence), "Night" (Songs of Innocence), "Spring" (Songs of Innocence), "The Little Boy Lost" (Songs of Innocence) and "The Little Boy Found" (Songs of Innocence). Otherwise, though, there are still quite a number of gaps, that even smaller articles, like w:en:The Grave (poem) would greatly add value too. I am also trying to use the Archive images for illustration across projects, and have a transcription going at s:en:Index:Father's_memoirs_of_his_child.djvu which need some more manpower. Hope you can help, Sadads (talk) 20:22, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
The background section of Visionary Heads reads too much like a pop culture New Yorker piece than an encyclopedia. You could trim down on the "opinions" and focus more on dates, hard numbers, and publications. Those are essential pieces of information a reader will be looking for. Opinion goes at the bottom in a critical reception type section. Also, the listing of all of the images and other things doesn't do the page any favor. Categories are designed to easily lump subpages together. Think of it this way - you have 3 days to do an assignment. You need basic information of a poem to write your paper. What do you want? Quick background so you know the context of it compared to other works, a brief summary of critical opinion, and some key facts so you can better visual a topic. That is your goal. Ottava Rima (talk) 18:30, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

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Wikidata[edit]

Hi. I have been creating the wikidata items related to the first articles you created during the 100wikidays challenge. Why don't you try it yourself ? It's easy. Wikidata is a very powerful tool, and knowing how it works is quite useful. Best, Trace (talk) 22:49, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

@Trace:Thats the thing: last couple times I have tried to login via my connection with En-Wikipedia it says its not logged in to WikiData. Didn't want to spend too much time debugging, try for todays, but don't understand how to add arguments. Sadads (talk) 13:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

Well, I see you managed to log onto wikidata and create a new item. And even add statements for "Dreaming Emmett" ! Perfect. It is really useful, especially for articles that only exist on one wiki - it helps translating them, etc.

Best, Trace (talk) 11:10, 7 August 2015 (UTC)

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typo note[edit]

Hi, i arrive here from reading through the WikiProject X report and seeing your comments at the end, at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:IEG/WikiProject_X/Renewal. You meant "precedent" rather than that word's homonym "president" (or almost homonym, as it sounds almost exactly the same). Maybe you want to change that for better understanding by other readers (i expect it would be confusing for some including those not having English as their first language).

Also I read through discussion above with Ottava Rima and hope you don't mind my asking a question there. You both seem very thoughtful to me. --Doncram (talk) 17:10, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

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Community Wishlist Survey votes[edit]

Hi Sadads, thanks for participating in the Wishlist Survey! I'm sorry that this wasn't clear -- this is the proposals phase of the survey, when people are posting and discussing proposals. The voting phase starts in a couple weeks, on November 28th. We're not counting votes that are cast early, because the proposals can change during this phase, and you might end up voting for something that changes in a way that you didn't expect. I've added some text at the top of the page, explaining this better.

I don't want people to see your Support votes and get confused, so I'm going to change the Support template in your message to "Good idea". If that response doesn't work for you, then feel free to change it. Sorry again about the confusion -- I'm really glad that you're participating. I hope you keep coming back to discuss and improve proposals, and you'll have a chance to vote starting on Nov 28th. Let me know if you have any questions MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 21:18, 10 November 2016 (UTC)

Hello again! Just wanted to let you know that if you are supporting a proposal, to use the {{support}} template. I noticed at 2016_Community_Wishlist_Survey/Categories/Watchlists#Watchlist priorities or Multiple watchlists you did not specify your position. Thanks for participating! MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 18:11, 28 November 2016 (UTC)
It looks like you didn't specify your stance on this proposal either: 2016 Community Wishlist Survey/Categories/Watchlists#Only watchlist certain categories for membership changes. Thanks! MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 22:37, 28 November 2016 (UTC)