Community Wishlist Survey 2019/Citations/VisualEditor: Allow references to be named

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◄ Back to Citations  The survey has concluded. Here are the results!


  • Problem: One cannot enter a name for a reference in the VisualEditor. When references are used multiple times, VE automatically assigns ":0", ":1", etc. as names.
  • Who would benefit: Everyone using VE, everyone editing content containing references added using VE
  • Proposed solution: Allow editors to assign individual names to references when clicking on a reference in the VE
  • More comments: This is a resubmit of Community Wishlist Survey 2017/Editing/VisualEditor: Allow references to be named from last year which got a lot of votes but sadly not enough to get into the top 10. Since then, nothing more seems to have happened here.
  • Phabricator tickets: task T52568, task T92432
  • Proposer: SoWhy 15:19, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Discussion

  • I like this. These reference names are confusing to new editors, highly unmemorable, and cause problems including incorrect citations when people copy text between articles. It causes friction between manual editors and Visual-Editor-using editors. My BibTeX software makes auto-names which run "[surname of first author]_[year of publication]_[first word of title which is not the or A or some other very common word]". The second phab ticket suggests something similar. HLHJ (talk) 02:05, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
    • Exactly. In addition to allowing editors to assign ref tags, the VE should suggest a Harvard style ref tag in the form of first authors last name + year of publication (i.e., "Smith_2017") appended by a, b, c, etc. if necessary to disambiguate. Boghog (talk) 07:21, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • This would be useful, especially as some editors heavily use refname it may allow to achieve some consistency. What is more, this may be used as an e.g. description text when the references are finally moved to Meta. aegis maelstrom δ 09:27, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
  • We need naming references to solve a problem we see facing our student editors (in the large Wikipedia Education program) and others moving material in from their sandboxes. Using VE they have references named ":0", ":1", etc. The target article often has existing references named ":0", ":1", etc. VE handles the conflict by renaming the incoming references. As students and other editors integrate their new pieces, the first batch will be renamed ":02", ":12", etc. VE will does not know that the next batch coming in should match, and will rename those ":03", ":13", etc. This confuses students and is nearly impossible to fix without learning how to use the source editor. StarryGrandma (talk) 01:59, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Allowing editors to specify the name for a named-ref is like asking if you prefer your poison in mint or cinnamon flavor, as the real problem is the use of named-refs. But if (as Boghog suggests) named-refs were done in a style compatible with {Harv} it would be lot easier to clean up when VE-using editors intrude into an article not using named-refs. A better approach would be to not use named-refs. ~ J. Johnson (talk) 00:08, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
    That's a bizarre, incredibly extremist opinion of referencing. --Izno (talk) 00:36, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
A comment full of inflated hyperbole, signifying nothing. ~ J. Johnson (talk) 23:34, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

The naming of references should automatically include a number and a word. This would help having many references named “0”, “1”, “2”, etc. Gleeanon409 (talk) 19:27, 28 October 2019 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support Ironupiwada (talk) 18:36, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Galobtter (talk) 18:58, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Cohaf (talk) 19:23, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Araratic (talk) 22:43, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Kerry Raymond (talk) 23:11, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jeroen N (talk) 23:39, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support DonBarredora (talk) 23:49, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Yousou (talk) 00:25, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:48, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Afernand74 (talk) 09:19, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Frettie (talk) 09:49, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 10:08, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support FF-11 (talk) 10:28, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nimrodbr (talk) 10:38, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2 (talk) 10:55, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 11:15, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support I will try to notify all the participants, who voted for this previously. Winged Blades of Godric (talk) 13:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:30, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Zoranzoki21 (talk) 14:26, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Theklan (talk) 18:09, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support I'd prefer it to be even stronger, with VE automatically giving a meaningful name rather than a number. Naming a ref as ":0" goes against the spirit, if not the letter, of the guideline on en.wiki which says "The text of the name can be almost anything‍—‌apart from being completely numeric", and the help file which says "Names must not be purely numeric; they should have semantic value so that they can be more easily distinguished from each other by human editors." PamD (talk) 18:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support ··· 🌸 Rachmat04 · 18:32, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Amir (talk) 19:08, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Vwanweb (talk) 19:18, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support For compliance with EnWP guidelines — pythoncoder (talk | contribs) 19:30, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support SupportThanks for the fish! talkcontribs 20:03, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support JAn Dudík (talk) 20:09, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Yamaha5 (talk) 20:34, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Yep! I mostly use the VisualEditor even though I am well-versed with wiki markup and this feature would be extremely nice to have! SshibumXZ (talk) 21:00, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support SupportAmmarpad (talk) 21:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Hadibe (talk) 22:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support both editor-assigned names and better default names. HLHJ (talk) 22:22, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tom (LT) (talk) 23:16, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Imzadi 1979  05:14, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Poya-P (talk) 06:17, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jules78120 (talk) 09:56, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support فرهنگ2016 (talk) 10:40, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Don't use the VE but seems useful for those who do. ~ Amory (utc) 12:28, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Eddie891 (talk) 12:39, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Hanooz (talk) 13:33, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Micromesistius (talk) 14:01, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support stwalkerster (talk) 17:16, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Dvorapa (talk) 17:27, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support — Draceane talkcontrib. 17:57, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fatemi 18:52, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ninovolador (talk) 20:09, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Wargo (talk) 22:45, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support paul2520 (talk) 00:08, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Waddie96 (talk) 07:45, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Zeromonk (talk) 10:03, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Please! Trizek from FR 10:37, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support β16 - (talk) 10:46, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support SupportTheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:55, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Demostene119 (talk) 11:55, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Veikk0.ma (talk) 12:40, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Anything is better than the current naming, but forcing the user to give a name would be optimal. Wumbolo (talk) 12:45, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support SupportJ.S.talk 15:18, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support ONUnicorn (talk) 16:11, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sadads (talk) 17:56, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support StringRay (talk) 22:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support BugWarp (talk) 01:04, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support I've commented on student's problems with reference name conflict in the discussion section. StarryGrandma (talk) 02:02, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 04:02, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Iridescent (talk) 10:12, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Famousdog (talk) 11:03, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Vulphere 12:45, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Philk84 (talk) 14:01, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Liked. Makes sense. Fredericknoronha (talk) 22:20, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support CAPTAIN RAJU(T) 22:37, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Novak Watchmen (talk) 00:14, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Skyman gozilla (talk) 20:02, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nihlus 22:20, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Saung Tadashi (talk) 02:51, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support TheAwesomeHwyh (talk) 12:03, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Vexations (talk) 14:54, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Andycyca (talk) 19:32, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support SalmanZ (talk) 21:10, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Siddhant (talk) 01:21, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support MisterSynergy (talk) 10:30, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sahaquiel9102 (talk) 17:12, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 00:31, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Shushugah (talk) 05:18, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Matěj Suchánek (talk) 08:52, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Gce (talk) 17:18, 24 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support An obvious BUG that shouldn't have had to come to the community wishiist to be fixed. — Insertcleverphrasehere (or here) 11:42, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Abujoy (talk) 13:51, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support HeinrichStuerzl (talk) 21:11, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support — AfroThundr (u · t · c) 02:02, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support WhatamIdoing (talk) 02:28, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Boghog (talk) 07:21, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Slashme (talk) 08:12, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Dreamy Jazz (talk) 13:29, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jklamo (talk) 15:08, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ckoerner (talk) 15:57, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support DMacks (talk) 19:14, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Dick Bos (talk) 20:38, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sounds good. Mathieugp (talk) 21:37, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support And for WTE17 too? Pretty please? :) --Izno (talk) 00:35, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Zache (talk) 04:10, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 12:33, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Framawiki (talk) 18:35, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Risker (talk) 21:14, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support I hate those ":N" references with the fire of a thousand suns. I didn't realize that they're VE defaults. The sooner they're gone the better. Daniel Case (talk) 02:36, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support — regards, Revi 11:19, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support I don't know if I am allowed to support my own proposal though? Regards SoWhy 14:48, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
    It's redundant, as you can see in this thread. Grüße vom Sänger ♫(Reden) 16:13, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support Useful feature, will improve readability of the code for source editors — NickK (talk) 16:32, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support XanonymusX (talk) 17:07, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Support I have no idea why this isn't there already. Cymru.lass (talk) 20:18, 29 November 2018 (UTC)