Community Wishlist Survey 2021/Categories

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Categories
12 proposals, 293 contributors, 469 support votes
The survey has closed. Thanks for your participation :)



Display flexible number of images in categories

Edit proposal/discussion

Deutsch: Flexible Anzahl von Bildern in Kategorien anzeigen lassen.

  • Problem: The same problem as submitted several times. Currently, categories are limited to a maximum of 200 images displayed per page. On the one hand, this is no longer up-to-date because the devices can process more data. On the other hand, it is simply a hindrance when processing larger amounts of data if you only have 200 thumbnails per category page. It should also be easier to reach images that are further back. Anyone who currently wants to see image 1800 in larger categories with around 2000 images must first click through in a complicated manner in steps of 200.
Deutsche: Dasselbe Problem wie schon mehrfach eingereicht. Derzeit sind Kategorien pro Seite auf maximal 200 angezeigte Bilder beschränkt. Das ist mittlerweile zum einen nicht mehr zeitgemäß, da die Geräte mehr Datenmasse verarbeiten können. Zum anderen ist es für die Bearbeitung größerer Datenmengen einfach hinderlich, wenn man nur 200 Thumbnails pro Kategorie-Seite hat. Zudem sollte es einfacher sein weiter hinten liegende Bilder zu erreichen. Wer derzeit in größeren Kategorien mit etwa 2000 Bildern zu Bild 1800 will, muss sich erst kompliziert durch in 200er-Schritten durchklicken.
  • Who would benefit: People who do bulk edits on Commons and people who search for images and have to work with larger categories.
Deutsche: Personen, die Massenbearbeitungen auf Commons machen und auch Personen, die Bilder suchen und dabei mit größeren Kategorien arbeiten müssen.
  • Proposed solution: In addition to the standard setting of 200 images, there should also be a variable setting option. Either as a box on the page, as predefined sizes (about 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 5000 images per category page) or in the personal settings. Even better all three options in combination. Jump marks are also required so that you don't have to click through in steps of 200.
Deutsche: Es sollte neben der Standardeinstellung von 200 Bildern auch eine Variable Einstellungsmöglichkeit geben. Entweder als Box auf der Seite, als vorgegebene Größen (etwa 50, 100, 250, 500, 1000, 2000, 5000 Bilder per Kategorie-Seite) oder aber in den persönlichen Einstellungen. Noch besser alle drei Möglichkeiten in Kombination. Zudem braucht es Springmarken, um sich nicht in 200er-Schritten durch klicken zu müssen.
  • More comments:
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: Marcus Cyron (talk) 18:19, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • There is a performance aspect to this. Hitting the thumbnail server with potentially hundreds of requests (some which might be rendered already, others needing to be generated) is simply a very expensive operation, compared to text. As such with the current structure, it is unlikely that over 250 images on a page is desirable. Perhaps if some sort of dynamic loading of images took place over a longer time after the page loaded (using javascript), or if you had to 'click to load' an image then more than 250 would be possible, but i'm not sure if that would be desirable for you ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
  • For me it would already help if there were jump marks in steps of five pages (forward and backward) and the possibility to go straight to the last page. I guess this would have less impact on the performance as the suggested solution. JopkeB (talk) 15:29, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
    This I definetly could get behind. Would support a proposal like that. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:36, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • You might also use w:en:Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser. Geert Van Pamel (WMBE) (talk) 18:30, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support I know this has been proposed and ignored before, but I still think this would be very useful. kennethaw88talk 05:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Till.niermann (talk) 06:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- Triple C 85 |talk| 10:33, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Elefantikus (talk) 10:57, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JPxG (talk) 05:46, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support NaBUru38 (talk) 20:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support as requesting person. -- Marcus Cyron (talk) 23:59, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Gereon K. (talk) 17:39, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Defines a required number of images per category. WikiFer msg 19:53, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 09:01, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Also better placing of images to optimize space - limit the white space. --FocalPoint (talk) 16:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ThomasLendt (talk) 15:25, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tutwakhamoe (talk) 21:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support — Draceane talkcontrib. 12:55, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support GiFontenelle (talk) 18:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Lt2818 (talk) 14:26, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Charlesjsharp (talk) 16:53, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support I guess having such an option would not harm as long as the load on the servers would not be too big, let's not forget that it is not only client devices that should be taken into account. Base (talk) 20:26, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Owleksandra (talk) 20:27, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Superchilum(talk to me!) 12:23, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nachtbold (talk) 16:20, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Schniggendiller (talk) 17:19, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support — Baidax 💬 17:54, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Automatically suggest categories when creating a new article

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: It is often difficult to think of what categories a new article should be part of, leading to many categories being incomprehensive and many articles harder to find.
  • Who would benefit: Editors and readers who value categories.
  • Proposed solution: Add a function to the process of creating a new article which automatically suggests categories for it to be included in.
  • More comments: The way the suggested categories would be chosen could be for example by searching the article title in category titles, or by taking a sentence in the article that fits a generic categorizing pattern ("[article title] is/was X"), and then searching for X. Or perhaps there could be some kind of an algorithm that can look for similar articles (something like the one used for 'suggested articles' on mobile), and then showing the categories those are in.
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: HappyMihilist (talk) 03:16, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

Voting

  • Support Support Stryn (talk) 18:25, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Good idea —Atcovi (Talk - Contribs) 18:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sgd. —Hasley 18:29, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Owleksandra (talk) 18:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ValeJappo【〒】 18:45, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sagivrash (talk) 18:55, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Waddie96 (talk) 18:56, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Wikiusuarios (talk) 19:03, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Movses (talk) 19:06, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --NGC 54 (talk / contribs) 19:17, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support only if it is not only made for Wikipedia. Noé (talk) 19:29, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Pmau (talk) 20:05, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Thryduulf (talk: meta · en.wp · wikidata) 20:12, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ssstela (talk) 21:16, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 21:18, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Barcelona (talk) 22:48, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support YFdyh000 (talk) 23:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support UncleMartin (talk) 01:32, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support BugWarp (talk) 01:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Keepcalmandchill (talk) 02:00, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Shizhao (talk) 02:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ✍ Janwo Disk./de:wp 02:59, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support TrudiJ (talk) 04:34, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose Getting an algorithm to do this task well enough to be useful might not be easy, so this seems like a high-effort request for only medium benefit. Less significantly, I'm also a little concerned that editors might start relying on this and stop adding categories once the bot runs out of suggestions. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 04:38, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Omda4wady (talk) 07:22, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Abubiju (talk) 10:03, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- Triple C 85 |talk| 10:38, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support This will be very problematic in different languages. But some algorithm should compare categories in different language versions (via Wikidata) Another solution should be suggesting via infobox and some parameters, JAn Dudík (talk) 10:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support 1Mmarek (talk) 11:42, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Great for new editors, and hopefully an opt-out function for those who wish to Lugnuts (talk) 12:28, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support another approach could be a better search function on the category search for some frequently used categories rather than having to get the precise title e.g. 'women' could also pull up 'female'? Kaybeesquared (talk) 13:34, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose generally opposed to sinking resources into this system that should just be replaced by Wikidata. It's hard to find categories because people have to figure out what we've called things and what currently exists instead of relying on uniform Wikidata properties, which can be combined and don't depend values pre-existing. Instead of trying to guide them to what we call the categories, just have a form with dates, fields, societies, birthplace, etc. without figuring out whether this category has the country first or country last, or whether it uses "in" or "of," etc. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 14:02, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support But there are same better things to do. Ján Kepler (talk) 14:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ponson13 (talk) 15:25, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Clerkon (talk) 15:31, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ForzaGreen (talk) 16:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support This is a great idea. I sometimes pick a random category when creating, then have to search for the correct one and replace it in the article after creation. Oaktree b (talk) 16:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Pechristener (talk) 17:31, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support dwf² (talk) 22:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ahuskay (talk) 23:04, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • GA candidate.svg Weak support Potentially useful but I feel this could become an expensive use of resources to make it work satisfactorily. // Lollipoplollipoplollipop :: talk 05:19, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ··· 🌸 Rachmat04 · 06:42, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support - yona B. (D) 07:22, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nonahg (talk) 08:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support--IP Man (talk) 14:29, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Titore (talk) 23:11, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose per Rhododendrites. I'm also highly unconvinced that such a tool would successful rather than laughable/annoying without a significant investment of resources on higher-priority tasks. Our categorisation system is high-effort for low-reward, with it not having a particularly large benefit to readers (who scrolls past the prose/images/text/navboxes to read the categories?) — Bilorv (talk) 01:05, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Higa4 (talk) 05:10, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Very strong support. It can be based in the page name. BoldLuis (talk) 11:22, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose per Rhododendrites and Bilorv, particularly Our categorisation system is high-effort for low-reward. ProcrastinatingReader (talk) 11:25, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Dreamy Jazz talk to me | enwiki 16:38, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Gereon K. (talk) 17:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose generally opposed to sinking resources into this system that should just be replaced by Wikidata This 1000x. Haste the day. czar 17:33, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support FabianHorst (talk) 17:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Theklan (talk) 17:54, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Implementing a user interface for mw:ORES#Topic_routing is a good idea. Ahecht (TALK
    PAGE
    ) 18:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support The proposal is important to facilitate the inclusion of categories in a created article. WikiFer msg 18:45, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Anaxial (talk) 18:49, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Would be very useful even if the suggestions were limited. So long as they are accurate and relevant. --Mathieugp (talk) 18:54, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ONUnicorn (talk) 21:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support DGG (talk) 00:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Alaa :)..! 01:12, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 09:04, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tom Ja (talk) 12:22, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ad Huikeshoven (talk) 14:31, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support That would be nice. Conny (talk) 15:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Snaevar (talk) 16:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Imetsia (talk) 16:43, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ziad Rashad (talk) 18:35, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Vincent Simar (talk) 22:24, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Lalviarez (talk) 22:47, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose This would only create a mess, that would have to be later sorted out by manual labor anyway.-Darwinek (talk) 23:54, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Wikibenchris (talk) 08:47, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose for dewiki, we have a complex categorization system with thematic and object categories in which I don't see an automatism getting useful results. -- hgzh 17:02, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ~ Amory (utc) 19:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ainali talkcontributions 20:47, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose per the risks and problems discussed in previous oppose comments. --Ita140188 (talk) 03:07, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tgr (talk) 06:56, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sadads (talk) 11:44, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Michel Bakni (talk) 13:59, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol oppose vote oversat.svg Strong oppose agree with (esp 2nd) point by Sdkb [who needs to fix signature code ;) ]: potential over-reliance on this feature. Anyway, interested parties can add new categories later if obvious/relevant ones were omitted upon initial post. Philiptdotcom (talk) 14:24, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose --WTM (talk) 00:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jurbop (talk) 07:24, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support if it's possible. Shalomori123 (talk) 11:18, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Rzuwig 14:19, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Thanks, EDG 543 (message me) 15:41, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support GiFontenelle (talk) 18:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose per the concerns brought up by other opposes. I don't believe this is worth the time or energy to develop, especially for the categorization system which is already debatably subjective to any reader or editor (i.e. there's more than one right answer to categorizing pages), and enforcing a standard for categorization at this point in time could be a nightmare. And I know that they're only suggestions, but they would be the only suggestions being offered. Utopes (talk) 19:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Cryoclaste (talk) 08:04, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Joalbertine (talk) 14:40, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support It is good to learn that ORES already has such a capability. It could be a good incentive to train it to support more languages when there would be a UI using this underlying thing Base (talk) 20:13, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support VKG1985 (talk) 17:56, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support It may be helpful when I wonder whether I should add the category or not --Gustmd7410 (talk) 17:46, 19 December 2020 (UTC).
  • Support Support Rehman 03:06, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Luiza1202 (talk) 08:16, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Anomlia (talk) 09:39, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support USI2020 (talk) 18:14, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fringilla (talk) 19:50, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ahmadtalk 03:42, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Allow multiple entries within each category

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: Sometimes, multiple entries within a category would be useful. For instance, on the French wiktionary there is a listing of French verbs that includes both the infinitive form (e.g. aimer) and a pronominal form (s’aimer). But which sort key should be given to the pronominal form? Equally valid arguments apply for a « aimer s » key and a « saimer » key. Ideally, the entry would appear twice in the category, under those two keys. There are other examples, such as proper nouns beginning with a definite article (e.g. Le Mans should be categorised under « Mans Le » and « Le Mans »).
  • Who would benefit: Wiktionaries, other wiki projects.
  • Proposed solution: Possibly add to the wiki software a magic word that can be used to specify a second (third, fourth, etc.) entry in a category’s index. Other wikicode approaches may be possible.
  • More comments: This could be merged with the proposal for Context-dependent sort keys, depending on the technical solution chosen.
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: Urhixidur (talk) 15:46, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  1. Similar to « Mans Le » and « Le Mans »: Multiple entries will also benefit an international audience to find persons with foreign surnames in the English Wikipedia.
    « Eddy Van Halen » for Chinese which are used to the first part of the name being the surname.
    « Halen, Eddy van » for Dutch used to sorting on the main part of the surname.
    « Van Halen, Eddy » for English and Flemish speakers that interpret 'Van Halen' as surname.
Uwappa (talk) 12:31, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support Noé (talk) 19:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Urhixidur (talk) 16:06, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JPxG (talk) 05:46, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Libcub (talk) 18:34, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Arielllaura (talk) 21:00, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Encycloon (talk) 15:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Excellent proposal that makes it even more flexible in the search for articles in a category. WikiFer msg 19:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Kusurija (talk) 19:12, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tuvalkin (talk) 21:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 09:07, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support FocalPoint (talk) 16:14, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ziad Rashad (talk) 18:26, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose Having the same thing show up multiple times in the same category would be a confusing trainwreck, for readers, for editors, and for tools. If you need an additional entry, sorted differently, use a categorized and category-sorted redirect (e.g., with a parenthetical disambiguator).  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  05:12, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support useful for items that can naturally fit into several categories BradChim (talk) 14:47, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose per SMcCandlish — Baidax 💬 17:56, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Protection of all pages in a category

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: Sometimes vandals will systematically work their way through a category, making changes to each page. In order to address this, admins are often forced to protect each page, one at a time.
  • Who would benefit: All users who fight vandalism
  • Proposed solution: Allow protection of all pages within a category with one action (perhaps similar to the Cat-a-lot tool).
  • More comments:
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: UDScott (talk) 16:32, 23 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Better to move it to Admins and patrollers board? — Draceane talkcontrib. 17:26, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  • A possible downside of this if that two non-admins were in a content dispute, one of them could add "their version" of the page to a protected category, thus preventing the other user from editing it. Voice of Clam (talk) 09:26, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
    Intentionally disruptive behaviour should see the user warned or temporarily blocked. Given that the other person in the dispute would presumably notice the edit, they could report it. — Bilorv (talk) 01:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • We had in ruwiki similar thing. "Cascade protection" it called I think. It worked in a way that every page-link from page under such protection meant that all target pages are protected.
    How it must work with category protection? If i'm not admin/confirmed user, I can set such a category and then I can't remove it from a page or even edit it? Carn (talk) 22:11, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • This needs to be re-thought Much better would be to create a list of articles from a category, then use that for protection. This list should be read-only to most users of course. Davidwr/talk 15:57, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support GlennByrnes6 (talk) 08:51, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support SupportBilorv (talk) 01:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support BoldLuis (talk) 11:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose This is only going to lead to edit warring over categories Ahecht (TALK
    PAGE
    ) 18:35, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support The protection of all pages by category will only be necessary if several articles are subject to vandalism. WikiFer msg 18:51, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Alaa :)..! 01:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support It's about time this happens. Fixer88 (talk) 09:12, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose for the same reason that editing through cascade protection requires protect and why the ability to semi-cascade-protect was removed. Even if protection was of pages in a category at the time, I'm still opposed to mass protections. In every case I can think of, blocks or abuse filters would be better than protection here. Wugapodes (talk) 23:25, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Michel Bakni (talk) 14:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose, per Wugapodes (I don't actually buy Ahecht's oppose reasoning; any admin who enabled mass protection in an editwar-enabling/supporting manner other than through innocent error would be a good de-sysopping candidate.)  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  05:14, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose if you want to protect all pages that are currently in the category, it is easy to achieve with a script. I can help to write one if you need help. But if you want to protect pages that are and will be in that category, then it is no different from why we don't have cascade semi-protection — everyone would be given technical ability to protect an arbitrary page just simply by adding it to the protected category. --Base (talk) 20:06, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support David1010 (talk) 13:02, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose That would be way too restrictive! Most categories are rather diffuse and unspecific in their nature. That makes them a terrible tool for measurements against vandalism. Preventively locking dozens of unaffected articles is unacceptable and a gross violation of our philosophy. Nachtbold (talk) 16:17, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Golmore (talk) 17:41, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Add sorting options in category pages

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: Categories are a powerful tool to search pages. However, category pages only show the page's name, and there's a single sorting method, which reduces their usefulness.
  • Who would benefit: Readers and editors alike.
  • Proposed solution: Category pages should have an option to select the sorting type, for example category tag, page name, file size, first edit date, last edit date, number of editions, and page views. These values must be displayed of course.
  • More comments:
  • Phabricator tickets: T71417, T61108, T42870
  • Proposer: NaBUru38 (talk) 17:47, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Yes, that would be nice. I've added some possibly related Phabricator tickets. — Draceane talkcontrib. 16:56, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @Kenraiz: I have merged your very similar proposal here. Hope that's okay! A copy the other proposal:
  • Problem: Content of Commons categories is displayed now in alphabetical order. Only. I wish we could sort content according to: size of file; date of file (chronological and on an annual basis - useful for landscapes and nature); type of file (extensions), number of uses of files.
  • Who would benefit: All users who need to find specific file in large categories.
  • Proposed solution: ?
  • More comments:
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: Kenraiz (talk) 01:07, 26 November 2020 (UTC)
Best, MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 16:32, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Categories are a weird realm in that they're ostensibly for readers, but de facto used mostly by editors. As a reader, the thing I'd really like to see long-term is a merging of categories and lists, such that it'd be possible to sort by things like date of birth for a people list. The more page metadata-related sorting functions proposed here would be useful for me as an editor, but if this gains support, I'd want to see it implemented in a way that doesn't add clutter for readers, who aren't very likely to want to sort by last edit date. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 04:51, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I'm increasingly of the mind that the best way to handle "categories" on Wikipedia is with Wikidata. Rather than create some fixed methods of sorting our cumbersome and strange tagging system, allow for easier (and limited, for the purpose of usability) querying of Wikidata to do everything. If you build a system on Wikidata queries, supply it with a set of properties it can use, then it would take less effort to just change those properties down the road than to modify the way mediawiki runs category pages. Categories on Commons, however, serve a rather more fundamental purpose at the moment, so it may be worth it for there, but I'm still kind of skeptical. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:46, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Can't we already do this with Petscan ? T. Le Berre, the french serpent à plumesTry and talk to me buddy 01:12, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support Stryn (talk) 18:24, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sgd. —Hasley 18:29, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support GeorgHH (talk) 18:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ValeJappo【〒】 18:36, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Waddie96 (talk) 18:40, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Mi6174 (talk) 19:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --NGC 54 (talk / contribs) 19:21, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Thgoiter (talk) 19:46, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Pmau (talk) 20:03, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Thryduulf (talk: meta · en.wp · wikidata) 20:09, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:27, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Pi.1415926535 (talk) 20:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sabas88 (talk) 20:53, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support HeinrichStuerzl (talk) 20:58, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Linie29 (talk) 21:32, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support tsca (talk) 22:34, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Frettie (talk) 22:52, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support YFdyh000 (talk) 23:26, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Abductive (talk) 00:05, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Alkari (talk) 00:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Mahir256 (talk) 01:38, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support BugWarp (talk) 01:39, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support * Pppery * it has begun 01:55, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support PianistHere (talk) 02:02, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Shizhao (talk) 02:51, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support PAC2 (talk) 07:32, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tmv (talk) 07:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Not so sure about the specifics here but there's definitely scope for making categories more useful. Samwalton9 (talk) 09:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Michal0803 (talk) 09:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Abubiju (talk) 10:02, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- Triple C 85 |talk| 10:38, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JAn Dudík (talk) 10:50, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sakretsu (炸裂) 11:34, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Steven Sun (talk) 13:42, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Kaybeesquared (talk) 13:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Neutral Neutral oppose as it pertains to Wikipedia, not because I think it's a bad idea (anything to make categories more useful than they are), but because I don't think it's smart to invest more resources in an awkward system that should just be replaced/exported entirely per what I wrote above. On Commons it would fill a more imminent need (on Wikipedia, we wikilink to various pages, have lists, etc. -- on Commons, file and category pages are about all we have as nobody uses galleries) but with the introduction of structured data on Commons it's possible that's better served by Wikidata, too. — Rhododendrites talk \\ 13:46, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ghost Iridescent (talk) 14:40, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Especially for Commons. Sannita - not just another it.wiki sysop 15:12, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Monozigote (talk) 17:28, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tylwyth Eldar (talk) 18:29, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Supportputnik 18:55, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support dwf² (talk) 22:48, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support RohMusik (talk) 23:25, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JPxG (talk) 05:45, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support - yona B. (D) 07:21, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nonahg (talk) 08:50, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support הארי פוטר 73 (talk) 08:52, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Spasimir (talk) 10:19, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Euro know (talk) 11:06, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tutus85 (talk) 12:06, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ויקי4800 (talk) 12:10, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support. Meiræ 18:55, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support NaBUru38 (talk) 20:25, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Srđan (talk) 22:12, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Michaelelijahtanuwijaya (talk) 03:13, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Higa4 (talk) 05:04, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support BoldLuis (talk) 11:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Paucabot (talk) 12:21, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Izno (talk) 15:09, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Kenraiz (talk) 16:11, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Dreamy Jazz talk to me | enwiki 16:37, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Aristeas (talk) 16:43, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Theklan (talk) 17:52, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Rosičák (talk) 18:06, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Great idea! Ahecht (TALK
    PAGE
    ) 18:36, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Depending on how it is designed and implemented, this could be great. --Mathieugp (talk) 19:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support It is important to bring more information when searching for one page by category. WikiFer msg 19:18, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -Xbony2 (talk) 19:23, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Xnet1234 (talk) 22:06, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 23:10, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support DGG (talk) 00:55, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support — AfroThundr (u · t · c) 05:07, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jingkaimori (talk) 08:50, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Strainu (talk) 09:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Gdarin | talk 10:30, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ~Cybularny Speak? 10:38, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nadzik (talk) 12:03, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tom Ja (talk) 12:19, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Geert Van Pamel (WMBE) (talk) 13:34, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Gaux (talk) 13:45, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --FocalPoint (talk) 16:22, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ziad Rashad (talk) 18:29, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Trizek from FR 18:58, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Wostr (talk) 20:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Vincent Simar (talk) 22:19, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- Nemo Discuter 19:09, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ~ Amory (utc) 19:50, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Kaviraf (talk) 20:02, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support WTM (talk) 00:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Yes, our categories are kind of a joke. Very 2005-ish level of usefulness.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  05:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jurbop (talk) 07:26, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support — Draceane talkcontrib. 12:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Rzuwig 14:16, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support MTheiler (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support. Shalomori123 (talk) 16:49, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support GiFontenelle (talk) 18:35, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Utopes (talk) 19:35, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Mohanad Kh Talk 06:02, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tilon3 (talk) 06:39, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support PinkPanda272 (talk) 08:48, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Gytha (talk) 21:37, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support SupportÉpico (talk)/(contribs) 00:28, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sikander (talk) 01:49, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support F. Riedelio (talk) 10:10, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Strongly agree with User:Sdkb's comment. This should be developed mainly with readers in mind, as should most navigational features on Wiki. Joalbertine (talk) 14:50, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Risk Engineer (talk) 15:45, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support G.prof (talk) 15:55, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Temp3600 (talk) 17:58, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support As long as it is feasible server load wise at the moment. Otherwise I guess this can be solved by gadgets for smaller categories, or by some tool for the bigger ones. Base (talk) 20:32, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Owleksandra (talk) 20:33, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support From a Commons POV: Use of sortkeys is often either absent, or arbitary; This would add a useful tool for finding media ~~ Alex Noble - talk 14:40, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support MichaelSchoenitzer (talk) 13:11, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support BradChim (talk) 14:45, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Julián L. Páez 04:14, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support David1010 (talk) 13:04, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Jelican9 (talk) 15:06, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Schniggendiller (talk) 17:22, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support — Baidax 💬 17:58, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Better tracking of category changes

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: For a few years, category changes have had dedicated entries in recent changes and watchlist. This is useful for watchlist – when you watch a category and have category changes enabled, you can see recent additions and removals to the category. For recent changes, this isn't much useful as it lists changes to any category. For Special:RecentChangesLinked ("related changes"), it only shows additions to the category. It's because when you remove a page from the category, it is no longer "linked" and thus it isn't listed in the related changes anymore. I believe this isn't logical as this change is pretty much related. Additionally, the diff links of category changes are quite buggy and could be fixed as part of this wish.
  • Who would benefit: Wiki gnomes checking for mistakes, patrollers checking for vandalism, wikis with complex categorizations
  • Proposed solutions (one of these):
    1. Improve Special:RecentChangesLinked to implicitly show additions and removals of the category
    2. Create a dedicated "mode" for categories in Special:RecentChangesLinked (i.e., make #1 explicit)
    3. Create a new special page dedicated to category changes (similarly, there is Special:NewPages for pages creations)
  • More comments: All of these could also add a filter for additions/removals only. Option #3 a stand alone tool to see whats been added or removed from a category in the last 30, 60, 90 days.
  • Phabricator tickets: phab:T89582, phab:T130134 (general problem); phab:T140602, phab:T147770, phab:T148533, phab:T243965, phab:T264491 (diff links, could be duplicates)
  • Proposer: --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 10:25, 30 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • This is basically the same as Content changes to categories. This proposal is more well thought out, so I might suggest merging the other one here, with Gnangarra's permission. However my gut tells me Special:RecentChangesLinked is not the correct place for this, the keyword being "Linked". If a page is not in a category, it's no longer linked. So option #3 seems best, which is basically what Gnangarra was proposing. MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 17:31, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    MusikAnimal (WMF) please do merge, I just want a tool that let us find whats been added or removed from a category for an extended period Gnangarra (talk) 23:26, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    Done! Thanks, MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 23:33, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    Thanks for noticing and merging! --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 10:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
  • support option #3 as a stand alone tool so that we can view the history of additions and removal of items from categories to better identify when changes are taking place and why Gnangarra (talk) 23:44, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    While Special:Diff/20730296 would definitely be nice, I will note that categorization changes are currently bound to other recent changes, which for WMF wikis are purged after 30 days. So if this was to be implemented, it would be a lot bigger project. --Matěj Suchánek (talk) 10:01, 1 December 2020 (UTC)
    if a 30 day max for "simplicity" purposes is all we can get as an initial tool that in itself would be useful. Gnangarra (talk) 10:21, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support support this solution. Create a dedicated "mode" for categories in Special:RecentChangesLinked (i.e., make #1 explicit) Leftowiki (talk) 00:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support * Pppery * it has begun 01:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support PianistHere (talk) 02:05, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Maybe collapse all category changes into "5 categories added, 4 categories removed"; or something similar. Opalzukor (talk) 08:17, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JAn Dudík (talk) 10:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ghost Iridescent (talk) 14:40, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ján Kepler (talk) 14:48, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support - yona B. (D) 07:15, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support I would have gone further with this and enable a watch mode that adds any page in the category to the watchlist (especially useful for categories of discussion pages), but this idea is gonna be helpful as well. Tomer T (talk) 08:04, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Libcub (talk) 18:32, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support NaBUru38 (talk) 20:25, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Gnangarra (talk) 01:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Izno (talk) 15:07, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support It is necessary for the project to know that the category has been removed from a page. WikiFer msg 19:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Helder 09:51, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Important, should show also Lemma getting deleted in category. Conny (talk) 15:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Theshumai (talk) 22:24, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Wikibenchris (talk) 08:48, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tgr (talk) 05:00, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Sadads (talk) 11:44, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tutwakhamoe (talk) 21:30, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Improvement in category management/patrolling would be a Good Thing.  — SMcCandlish ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ʌ<  05:09, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Rzuwig 14:15, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Mohanad Kh Talk 06:03, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Aspiriniks (talk) 10:21, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Base (talk) 20:09, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Owleksandra (talk) 20:10, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Important in spanish wikipedia too. Importante también en la wikipedia en español. Dhidalgo (talk) 10:07, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support We need that Nadzik (talk) 11:51, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fringilla (talk) 19:51, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Display categories before pages

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: (COMMONS only)
    • At present, where there is a Commons page with the same name as a category, a reader searching on Commons for the term is taken to the page, not the category. Most readers will not realize that there is a category at all. The average Commons page is terrible; most have not been edited for several years. Hardly any relect the choice of images in a category adequately. Johnbod (talk) 19:14, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
    • When typing to search field in comons, suggester suggest names of files and galleries, but not categories. ALso after search there are in results on the first place galeeries and then files. Categories are on the n-th page, when there are more than 20 results
  • Who would benefit: All Commons readers/users, especially those less used to Commons
  • Proposed solution: Just display the category screen from a search. No idea of the technicalities, but it shouldn't be too difficult.
  • More comments: I think the current situation must be giving inexperienced users of Commons a very misleading impression of our contents.
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: Johnbod (talk) 19:13, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • This is gonna sound harsh, but it comes from place of love for Commons... I honestly find 'categories before pages' a very unimaginative view of how Commons can be a better media repository. Commons needs much more substantial work than just making image pages harder to find in favor of categories if you ask me. It's like putting the bike shed in front of the house in an effort to hide the ugly house. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:41, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • P.S. maybe this should go into the Commons category of proposals..? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:42, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
    It's only Commons, so I think that needs to be moved to the Multimedia and Commons area. Euro know (talk) 15:46, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
  • It might make categories more visible. Though I am skeptical: There is much more information on the top, already. Maybe as an option, but not as standard?! --Matthiasb (talk) 21:22, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Including categories in the default search results sounds good, I was surprised that this wasn't already the case. A *lot* of improvement has taken place to the categories over the last few years, including improving multilingual search results for them, so this change should have a seriously positive impact. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 08:23, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
  • See also Community Wishlist Survey 2021/Archive/searching categories on commons, I copied second part of problem. JAn Dudík (talk) 14:25, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
  • I am fine with the idea, as long as it is optional MW feature and not forced on you by default. I don't like to distract people from the real content (no category, no warning templates, no sitenotice, no centralnotice above the contents) so I cannot support this to be a default behavior. — regards, Revi 20:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • As I interpret it, this is about search results, not about having the categories section at the top of file and category pages — which is already possible, optionally — see c:Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets, where two options exist: «Place categories above all other content.» or «Place categories above content, but below image on file description pages.» Any serious Commons editor/curator should have one of these ticked. Tuvalkin (talk) 21:15, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • @Tuvalkin: But this wish is about searching results. Searching "foo" should display at first places gallery Foo, image foo.jpg and category:Foo. And then all things containing foo in name and then things containing foo in descriptionn. But now category:Foo is displayed after all files and galleries containig foo in name or description. JAn Dudík (talk) 08:49, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • @JAn Dudík: Okay, so the o.p. is indeed about search results, or at least we both think so. What to say? Raw text search is always a rough tool to locate things and having categories prioritized or not in search hit rankings is eitherway a non-ideal option. As someone who started using computers in the mid-1980s, I always found “fascinating” how subsequent latecomers used search engines, just like in the old 1970s movies about computers — with wholly unrealistic expectations etched even in the way search queries are worded, which would develop in “human interface” monstrosities like modern day’s Alexa. I am no less “fascinated” today by the fact that the very same people who are riding the “structured data” horse — which in itself harks back to Middle Ages’ flawed philosophies about discovering (not creating) a fanciful universal classification of platonic ideals — are also invested in raw text search “optimization” and keep sneering at Commons’ categories — which are human-generated, organically developed, non-teleologic, and ever-improving — in a word, Commons’ categories are wiki, while Wikidata (and its outgrowths in other projects) essentially and fundamentally is not. Tuvalkin (talk) 14:58, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Voting

Support multilingual category names

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: Commons imposes English-named categories, which discourages non-English speakers from adding and creating categories and sometime leads to weird category names.--Strainu (talk) 11:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Who would benefit: At least Commons editors, likely all multilingual wikis.
  • Proposed solution: Use Wikidata labels from the item associated with the category to provide multilingual aliases for the category names. The wikitext should always contain the English name, just the display and input should be i18n.
  • More comments: Input should work everywhere categories are used: search, wikitext editor, visual editor, upload wizard, classic uploader, API etc. The same, display should work in desktop, mobile and apps,
  • Phabricator tickets: could benefit: phab:T89973
  • Proposer: Strainu (talk) 11:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • I think this proposal has low priority. English is the language of international communication. Plus, there is not always an exact correspondence between categories from different languages.Carn (talk) 13:18, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
  • What a horrid and Imperialistic comment to make. Yes I can speak English fairly well. English isn't my normal language of comunication, Welsh is. Welsh is the language I speak to my friends and family. Your suggestion, that my language is low priority, is arogant and crude and insulting to my loved ones who I use my first language with on a daily basis! Saying that my language is low priority is the same as saying that my parents and children and other loved ones, who I speak that language with, are low priority. AlwynapHuw (talk) 05:29, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • It is low-priority for English-speakers, yes :) Not so for people who don't speak English at a decent level. As to the correspondence, it should (and usually is) handled in Wikidata. The guidance there is to have 1 item for each clearly identifiable concept or object, it this isn't the case, then more items should be created.--Strainu (talk) 16:33, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
    So it is low priority for ~20% of people and high priority for ~80% of people of the Earth. Infovarius (talk) 23:15, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I do see it as high priority. Right now there are too many duplicities between commons and local wikis. Some, like es: has move to use only Commons to avoid that. However, we lose some of the content from that communities if the lack of localization discourage a fraction of users from collaborating in Commons. A more multilingual commons that allow all wikis (specially small ones which may lack skilled manpower for an effective (C) review of images) will avoid the need for local repositories. It may be specially relevant for small communities which sometimes are themselves finding hard to create a core user group for edit on their language online and may find it more challenging to use something more internationally oriented. For many of them online skills and language proficency are hard already to find together--FAR (talk) 11:08, 29 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Start using structured data and Wikidata instead of Categories :-) --Sabas88 (talk) 12:49, 20 November 2020 (UTC)
    Wikidata doesn't contain media, for example, as Commons do. Infovarius (talk) 23:15, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
    What Sabas is suggesting here is to move away from Categories to more modern ways of grouping media. I don't think we're there yet. While bots are actively adding information, there is a shortage of simple tools to find images based on those informations. Plus, my proposal goes in the same direction, by using Wikidata as source for the names.--Strainu (talk) 23:42, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
    Yeah, my comment was to use the Structured Data deployed in Commons to replace the Category system --Sabas88 (talk) 12:38, 25 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @Strainu and Mike Peel: Is this close to being the same as Make subcategory browsing multilingual using Wikidata, and should they be merged? —SWilson (WMF) (talk) 07:17, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
    @SWilson (WMF): Yes, they're pretty close. Mike's proposal treats the display part (the easy one, I would say), while mine also includes the possibility for the user to input category names in any language (which is somewhat harder due to all the different ways this can be done).--Strainu (talk) 08:54, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
    Agreed they are close. I didn't want to include editing in mine as that's a whole different ballpark from just displaying the content, but I really like Strainu's point about using multilingual category names everywhere else, not just when browsing categories. I'm happy for them to be merged if you want. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 10:59, 4 December 2020 (UTC)
  • @Strainu and Mike Peel: Okay, thanks, makes sense. I'm not sure any more: let's just leave them as separate, and we can see which gets the most votes. Certainly the displaying feels easier, but it'd be super great to have more editing places support Wikidata lookups. :-) —SWilson (WMF) (talk) 06:58, 7 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Very interresting proposal, there is a lot of categories when another language would be more appropriate. For exemple, categorizing Louvre rooms and paintings in english is rather inefficient: we do not always have an english translation for all terms, so it leads to a strange frenglish mix.--Green fr (talk) 18:32, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support আফতাবুজ্জামান (talk) 19:11, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Alkari (talk) 00:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support PianistHere (talk) 02:04, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Shizhao (talk) 02:50, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Pinerineks (talk) 06:58, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Thomas Kinz (talk) 09:47, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- Triple C 85 |talk| 10:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JAn Dudík (talk) 10:49, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nehaoua (talk) 22:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support dwf² (talk) 22:48, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Blue Rasberry (talk) 01:51, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support francis (talk) 05:40, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support - yona B. (D) 07:15, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support β16 - (talk) 13:25, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Libcub (talk) 18:34, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support. Meiræ 18:56, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support NaBUru38 (talk) 20:26, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Gnangarra (talk) 00:59, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support SupportBilorv (talk) 01:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Higa4 (talk) 05:08, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Multilingual support is very important. BoldLuis (talk) 11:03, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Izno (talk) 15:09, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Arnd (talk) 16:41, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Poslovitch (talk) 17:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Hadrianus (talk) 17:27, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Akela NDE (talk) 17:48, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Theklan (talk) 17:53, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Llywelyn2000 (talk) 18:11, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Susanna Giaccai (talk) 18:30, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Green fr (talk) 18:33, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support This should be considered high priority because the problem is long-standing and leads to poor/incomplete/unbrowsable categorization for all humans and bots, whatever language they speak! ;-) -- Mathieugp (talk) 19:06, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support I believe that the use of Wikidata labels should help in the category names search in multilingual. WikiFer msg 19:47, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support This is one of the many broken promises when Wikidata was first floated. Now that we know that Wikidata is nothing more than vapourware at best (and the sinister tentacle of Big Data attempting at taking over Wikimedia at worst), maybe we can have this done in some other way, please? Tuvalkin (talk) 21:19, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 09:02, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Strainu (talk) 09:47, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Helder 09:51, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ~Cybularny Speak? 11:14, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tom Ja (talk) 12:18, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Craigysgafn (talk) 07:52, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Gdarin | talk 17:23, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fuchs B (talk) 18:08, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Symbol strong support vote.svg Strong support--Sudonet (talk) 18:19, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Ziad Rashad (talk) 18:24, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Dafyddt (talk) 19:52, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Wostr (talk) 20:53, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Nenea hartia (talk) 20:54, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support - AlwynapHuw (talk) 16:56, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support HAL333 (talk) 21:21, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Papuass (talk) 21:30, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Mosbatho (talk) 21:58, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support WTM (talk) 00:17, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Rzuwig 14:17, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Pokvalitov (talk) 15:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support MTheiler (talk) 16:46, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support GiFontenelle (talk) 18:46, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Clearly, the way forward. Iketsi (talk) 02:31, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support That's a good idea. Gikü (talk) 12:10, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Locoluis (talk) 17:07, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Perhaps as some simple(ish) extension of HotCat to use Wikidata labels in current interface language for starters, but definitely useful. I believe this is a problem that discourages many non-English speakers from participating on Commons at all. Base (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Owleksandra (talk) 20:17, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Golmore (talk) 07:01, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Hameryko (talk) 13:23, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support I'm surprised this isn't a feature yet. Uanfala (talk) 22:38, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Whisperjanes (talk) 07:13, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Anomlia (talk) 09:39, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Svawt95 (talk ) 23:09, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Rhadamante (talk) 05:27, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Emha (talk) 12:51, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Franciscoantoniomartinezmontalva (talk) 13:40, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 14:57, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Case insensitive category search

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: When adding or editing content categories for an article using Visual Editor, the search is case sensitive. It is also sensitive to spellings from different dialects, e.g. Non-profit organizations vs. Non-profit organisations. This makes it hard to find and discover existing categories, especially when it comes to improving categorisation and adding categories to pages without any.
  • Who would benefit: All editors.
  • Proposed solution: Make the category selection search query case and dialect insensitive.
  • More comments:
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: WikiVillager (talk) 11:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • @WikiVillager: "When adding or editing content categories for an article". There are multiple places and methods (4 editing toolbars, wikitext, HotCat) in which you can do that. Can you specify the one where you encountered the case sensitivity problem ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:57, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
  • @TheDJ: Sure - I click on Edit on a page > am in Visual editing mode > click on the Page options icon to the left of Publish changes... in the top right corner > click on Categories —WikiVillager (talk) 22:06, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
    Ok. so what this sounds like to me, is that you don't want an autocomplete suggestion, but a search based functionality backed by the searchengine, which can ignore accents and case, find partial matches (match on presence of a word somewhere inside a long category name), fuzzy matching (spelling mistakes) etc. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:53, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • down with case-sensitivity —Cramyourspam (talk) 15:02, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Sensitive is significant in Wiktionary, this change have to be project-specific. Also, "spelling from different dialects" seems very English-centric, isn't it? Noé (talk) 22:12, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
  • I noticed that this also happens with punctuation - e.g. typing "21st century composers" will not return anything due to the missing hyphen between "21st" and "century", which isn't the most user or beginner friendly. —WikiVillager (talk) 23:58, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
  • To ease navigation of the Editing category, I'm going to move this to the Categories category (yes a Category about categories!). Hope this okay, MusikAnimal (WMF) (talk) 00:46, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support I know that feeling, it is so annoying. I hope this feature gets implemented. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 11:13, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support making the search engine more flexible is a good idea in order to enhance discovery of content by users Clarinetjo (talk) 12:02, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support see comment on search for similar categories e.g. 'women' also bring up 'female' Kaybeesquared (talk) 13:36, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Mmoe (talk) 16:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JPxG (talk) 05:45, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Nonahg (talk) 08:49, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support β16 - (talk) 13:19, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Libcub (talk) 18:35, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support NaBUru38 (talk) 20:23, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Izno (talk) 15:11, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Фред-Продавец звёзд (talk) 19:19, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 08:59, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --FocalPoint (talk) 16:23, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support I find it really hard to attach categories because of this issue, hope this passes. Ziad Rashad (talk) 17:48, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
    Oh please, I think I could have possibly added a dozen categories to pages if the search wasn't so canse sensitive. Ziad Rashad (talk) 18:39, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tango Mike Bravo (talk) 16:01, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- the wub "?!" 18:26, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Tgr (talk) 06:56, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support WeHaKa (talk) 23:26, 14 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Jurbop (talk) 07:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Baum64 (talk) 12:04, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support — Draceane talkcontrib. 12:54, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support GiFontenelle (talk) 18:40, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Bgrus22 (talk) 21:59, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support SupportGoombiis (talk) 08:26, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Find similar images

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: Many of the new images on Wikimedia Commons have insufficient metadata, but are similar to ones we already have.
  • Who would benefit: Users of Wikimedia Commons
  • Proposed solution: A find similar routine that enabled categorisers on Wikimedia commons to link a new image which lacks a good description to other images of the same object
  • More comments:
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: WereSpielChequers (talk) 22:12, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

How would this work? By comparing metadata or comparing the files? The former seems to be the issue ("insufficient metadata") and the latter seems to be difficult due to the amount of files, and the fact that even if the files are similar enough to be detected, they would get removed for being too similar. Opalzukor (talk) 19:36, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Often new images lacking categories and/or detailed description are used in a specific Wikipedia article by the owner of the image. This kind of indirect metadata could be used automatically by adding the commonscat category of the article (if it exists) to the image. --HeinrichStuerzl (talk) 20:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Perhaps use the same technique as in Google Images (click on the camera icon), would that be possible? JopkeB (talk) 04:37, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

A better search would allow part names or words rather than rely on complex AI e.g. 'suffrag' finding Suffrage, Suffragette, Suffragist - apologies if this already exists in Commons. Kaybeesquared (talk) 13:42, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Support Support Movses (talk) 19:04, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --HeinrichStuerzl (talk) 20:43, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support BugWarp (talk) 01:40, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support JopkeB (talk) 04:33, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose Per Opalzukor's concerns, I'm not convinced this is feasible. AIs still have a lot of trouble identifying objects within images, and we have limited other data to work with for images whose concern is, well, limited other data. {{u|Sdkb}}talk 04:45, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
While AI might not reach the requirement to fully automate it, I think if getting a little help from AI, a human Wikipedia editor can have 10x or 100x productivity finding similar images while maintain a high precision by human review. Therefore, it might not be feasible in other use-cases, but with passionate Wikipedian's help I think there is a feasiblity. Xinbenlv (talk) 05:07, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Xinbenlv (talk) 04:59, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Avron (talk) 07:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support -- Triple C 85 |talk| 10:39, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support It should help to deal with duplicates, so I will support. MarioSuperstar77 (talk) 11:14, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Zoozaz1 (talk) 17:16, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Pechristener (talk) 17:30, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support dwf² (talk) 22:48, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Arielllaura (talk) 20:59, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Also can be proposed categories from Wikipedia, if there is not similar one in Commons. BoldLuis (talk) 11:01, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Anaxial (talk) 18:50, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support --Matlin (talk) 19:23, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Facilitates the search for similar images. WikiFer msg 19:56, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose Categorization is a human endeavour. Guesswork and artificial “intelligence” have no place here. It’s bad enough to have to correct categorization errors done by humans, thanks very much. Tuvalkin (talk) 21:23, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 09:13, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Conny (talk) 15:43, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Vincent Simar (talk) 22:27, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Lalviarez (talk) 22:46, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Wikibenchris (talk) 08:49, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support ThomasLendt (talk) 15:22, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Useful for beginners with little experience in categories. Moleskine (talk) 18:02, 13 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Trang Oul (talk) 11:49, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Oppose Oppose existing images may be incorrectly identified e.g. wildlife Charlesjsharp (talk) 16:55, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Risk Engineer (talk) 15:50, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support David1010 (talk) 13:01, 21 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Like to find similar images using image comparison software and also text by OCR. Someone proposed filename search instead, but that's not a solution because typical filenames represent only one very narrow point of view. eg. "Imperial Museum collection Number 457.jpg" Wotheina (talk) 13:45, 21 December 2020 (UTC)

Clusterization of Categories

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: Categories displayed at the end of pages are a mess when there is more than half a dozen. In particular in Wiktionaries, as the content is words in several languages, categories are for language of an entry, grammatical information, lexicographical information (morphological, semantical, etymological and so on), structure of the content. Those are mixed without any clustering. Same in Wikipedia, where categories can be geographical, thematic, chronological. For example: Marcel Proust.
  • Who would benefit: Readers could access to similar pages easily if the categories are clearly distinguished.
  • Proposed solution: Having a way to set clusters to category pages and build a way to set for each project the clustering displayed in the content pages.
  • More comments: If you have practical cases for other projects, feel free to support this proposal with your own need for this! I think this proposal could be another framing at the same problem point out by Geertivp in his 2019 proposal: Display Multi-column sorted categories.
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: Noé (talk) 23:13, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

  • Structuring categories is an application of structured data, which is exactly what Wikidata does. As Wikidata becomes more functional and integrated into other WM projects, the need to use categories will diminish. Therefore, I consider work that could be spent on adding functionality to categories much better spent on Wikidata. Silver hr (talk) 11:24, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
    Thanks for this insight. Content in Wiktionary is not described in Wikidata and will not be, so categories would remains useful at least for this project Noé (talk) 12:17, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
    While content in Wiktionary might currently not be described in Wikidata, I see no reason why it couldn't be. The benefits of Wikidata would be useful in Wiktionary as well as any other Wikimedia project. Silver hr (talk) 18:49, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    Wikidata and local categories still serve different purposes.Carn (talk) 13:21, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
    Categories are an expression of folksonomy, how editors (who are also users) structure the articles; it provides links that are natural, yet cannot be derived from ordered data. Turning this into structured data will result with the loss of these natural insights, & can make it harder for users to find associated subjects. (I know this is not directly related to this proposal, but it needs to be mentioned as a warning about future conflicts.) -- Llywrch (talk) 06:32, 27 November 2020 (UTC)
    Folksonomy is a portmanteau of folk and taxonomy. A taxonomy is a system of classification. Wikidata deals with classes (aka concepts), their instances, and relations between them, and is thus a more formal and vastly more functional way of doing what categories do. I understand that people who use categories would like to keep doing what they've always been doing instead of having to learn a new thing, however that simply is not a valid reason to not do things in a better way. As for using categories to find associated subjects, there's no reason the same can't be done with Wikidata. It's only a matter of integrating it into Wikipedia well. Silver hr (talk) 18:46, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    So, in few words, you want to jettison the way we've implemented categories because your way is better, QED. I admire your confidence in this opinion despite your absence of supporting arguments. However, faith & logic are different things & should not be confused, & since you have offered no logical arguments to make this change -- nor understanding of my point -- you simply insist we entrust our faith in your opinion. -- Llywrch (talk) 08:18, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
    Wikidata is not "my way", it is a WMF project that many people participate in, and one of its uses can be to replace the current category system with something that offers everything categories do, and much more. As for arguments, I have offered them, and if you wish to address them, we can discuss them. Silver hr (talk) 20:57, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
    Categories are part of another WMF project, and we don't have to choose between only one - the categories of pages associated with a wikidata item can help structured data, and vice versa - structured data can help choose categories. Carn (talk) 07:19, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
    How could categories from a project help Wikidata? If there is a fact to be recorded about something, this fact can be recorded (and properly sourced) in Wikidata, regardless of categories. Silver hr (talk) 19:25, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • @Noé: We have MediaWiki:Gadget-SeparateSpecialCategories.css and MediaWiki:Gadget-SeparateSpecialCategories.js for separating Maintenance and Monitoring cats on cswiki. So the solution could be similar. — Draceane talkcontrib. 17:26, 17 November 2020 (UTC)
    Thanks for this option, we will dig into it as a secondary solution! Noé (talk) 08:50, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
  • mw:Snippets/Multi-column sorted categories could also help; it only requires one single line of CSS, and a simple change in core MediaWiki includes/skins/RCS/Skin.php. Geert Van Pamel (WMBE) (talk) 14:12, 19 November 2020 (UTC)
  • The idea I've been musing about is exposing (some?) Wikidata properties in the same place as the categories are. I'm not sure what value that would have though if they can't be played with meaningfully... --Izno (talk) 00:54, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
  • Categories never ever will be replaced by Wikidata. The main reason is that every language versions has differing rules what to categoriza and how to do it. The German community, for example, would never accept the English WP category system mess and rejects attempts to implement the commons category system on the German WP. Furthermore category systems in WP differ from those in Wikinews. Whereas Wikipedia uses some combination of facett classiication and pre-defined categories, Wikinews' category system is more or less a word cloud. --Matthiasb (talk) 21:18, 22 November 2020 (UTC)
    Your crystal ball aside, the point of Wikidata is to structure data in a language-neutral way. Then you can search through, analyze and present it however you want. For instance, instead of manually having to create Category: US presidents in the 1900s and add it to the page of every US president that held office in the 1900s, if in Wikidata you already have this information, you can (or will be able to) refer to this set of presidents simply through the use of a query such as is:person AND held-office:president[country:USA][date:1900-1999] (I'm improvising the syntax for clarity). The current use of categories might differ between Wikipedias, but categories still have to be based on objective facts, i.e. you can't have Category: Presidents User:Silver_hr likes. This is what Wikidata enables, and so much more, and with much more automation. Silver hr (talk) 18:46, 30 November 2020 (UTC)
    Be polite plz Carn (talk) 08:25, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
    For example in ruwiki we do not categorize people on the basis of being vegetarians or atheists. Some of our categories are strictly transitive, in which a category can only be included in one subcategory of a category. See ru:Шаблон:Универсальная карточка - it makes wikidata item into Infobox. If we have a lot of different data, then we will have to choose what to display and what not. And to create an analogue of a category system from Wikidata data is to build a similar system. And in each wiki there will be some unique expectations from such a system. Carn (talk) 21:45, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

Voting

  • Oppose Oppose Wikidata-based classification will be vastly better than categories. Silver hr (talk) 00:41, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Some pages share one big screen of categories of different types, and we for sure have category items on wikidata. If we would be able to sort categories of different types or shou them with different background color - it will help to navigate in this mess Carn (talk) 08:24, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Libcub (talk) 18:29, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support And try to find a Wikidata solution at the same time. BoldLuis (talk) 11:20, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Fixer88 (talk) 09:08, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Making standardized categories for specific topics would be helpful. e.g., Counties would have a set of standard sub-categories with documentation of what's to be included in each. Much like the infobox idea, but for groupings of like images/documents for a primary category. Chris Light (talk) 20:47, 15 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support F. Riedelio (talk) 10:12, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Joalbertine (talk) 14:44, 17 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Acky69 (talk) 19:52, 18 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Gustmd7410 (talk) 17:54, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support Clear benefit, even on Wikipedia. Uanfala (talk) 22:46, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
  • Support Support BradChim (talk) 14:44, 20 December 2020 (UTC)

Context-dependent sort key

Edit proposal/discussion

  • Problem: In most Wiktionary projects, words of different languages share a page if their spellings are identical. Currently, the magic word DEFAULTSORT works for an entire page, which means we cannot define a default sort key for each language in the same page. That is an issue especially for Chinese, Japanese and Korean (hanja). They share characters but their sort keys are totally different (radicals or pinyin for Chinese, kana for Japanese, hangeul for Korean). If it is allowed to define a default sort key for each section, it will be much easier to correctly categorize pages.
  • Who would benefit: Editors of Wiktionary, especially those who edit Chinese and Japanese entries.
  • Proposed solution: Introduction of a new magic word, say, SECTIONSORT, that works for all categories after it up to the next usage of the same magic word. SECTIONSORT should override DEFAULTSORT if both are defined. The use of SECTIONSORT without a sort key should clear the previous sort key (and should not define an empty sort key).
  • More comments: See Community Wishlist Survey 2017/Wiktionary/Context-dependent sort key for a discussion in 2017. It is still a problem. See Community Wishlist Survey 2020/Wiktionary/Context-dependent sort key for further discussion (and support).
  • Phabricator tickets: phab:T183747
  • Proposer: Urhixidur (talk) 15:43, 25 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion

Voting